OT -question on cat food

Kathleen Ramsey · Post by **Kathleen Ramsey** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:16 am

There has to be a happy medium. I do not want to feed my domestic animals
raw meat, nor do I want to feed them bad kibble. I have had many pets live
a good long life with little to no health problems eating cat chow by Purina
or Dog chow. One of my cats is 17 years old. Growing up we had dogs and
they lived to 12 years old eating dog chow and rarely any health problems.
I bought our English Bull Dog Royal Canin bulldog 24 but evidently that is
not good for them, the cat food is probably not either? I switched our dog
to cooked food a couple of weeks ago and she is doing good so far. I am
looking for recipes. Thanks Kathy
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
ginny wilken
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 4:33 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: OT -question on cat food @ Irene and Gaby, was Re: [Minutus]
AIDs --a sinister invention
Luise, there is plenty of said evidence that cats and dogs - well,
humans, too - thrive on the most biologically appropriate diets. For
carnivores, obligate or by design, this has to be a diet
approximating natural prey - meat, organs, bones, and even hides and
feathers when available. Neither species is at all equipped to handle
vegetable matter and especially grains. I could not disagree more
with Irene's viewpoint on appropriate diets, and find it a shame that
her brilliant mind is stuck at that point.

No manufactured food can come close to providing biologically
accessible nutrients as found in prey animals. Many of the additives
and even the main ingredients in processed foods, canned or kibbled,
are indigestible due to lack of enzymes to handle their compounds,
and are potential allergens leading to such ills as IBD, kidney
disease, skin issues, joint problems, seizures, and cancer, among
others. There is little food value and lots of damage from grains,
vegetables, and cooked and processed proteins of dubious quality. It
makes no difference how fine the grade or high the standards - this
is junk food, and totally unnecessary. Carnivores are by design meant
to thrive on their natural diets. It can't be otherwise. Feed a horse
a steak? No, who would? It's the same idea.

Feeding meat and bone is easy and not as expensive as "premium"
kibble. For more on this, you may join rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
,
where there are over 7000 folks feeding raw for a long period to many
animals. That site can also provide you with many links to the how
and why; one of interest would certainly be www.rawmeatybones.com, by
a veterinary dentist whose campaign against processed foods has been
carrying on for decades.

Best of luck, and best of health to your cats,

ginny

All stunts performed without a net!

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Tanya Marquette · Post by **Tanya Marquette** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:44 am

i have switched both my cats to raw. they are doing well and like the food.
i have heeded the message about species appropriate diet and find good
support and information with the CNRS@ yahoogroups. several members
are well versed in homeopathy. many are familiar with other holistic
protocols.
conversations are rich with info and support.

the hardest part in raw food feeding is finding the source of the food. it
took
me quite a while to find a source that was easy, reliable and affordable.

i dont agree with feeding kibble or grains and unless it is shown to me that
dogs and cats eat rice bran or any other grain in nature, i will continue to
avoid them

tanya
live
Purina
problems.
dog
Of
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Kathleen Ramsey · Post by **Kathleen Ramsey** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:50 am

Tanya what does CNRS stand for? Kathy
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Tanya Marquette
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:44 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Minutus] RE: OT -question on cat food
i have switched both my cats to raw. they are doing well and like the food.
i have heeded the message about species appropriate diet and find good
support and information with the CNRS@ yahoogroups. several members
are well versed in homeopathy. many are familiar with other holistic
protocols.
conversations are rich with info and support.

the hardest part in raw food feeding is finding the source of the food. it
took
me quite a while to find a source that was easy, reliable and affordable.

i dont agree with feeding kibble or grains and unless it is shown to me that
dogs and cats eat rice bran or any other grain in nature, i will continue to
avoid them

tanya

>
live
Purina
problems.
dog
[mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com ] On
Behalf
Of

and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations
regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any
document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this
website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out
of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site
or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential,
incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever
caused.
your setting at http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus to receive a
single daily digest.
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Tanya Marquette · Post by **Tanya Marquette** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:22 am

Canadian Natural Rearing Support group.
Of
food.
that
to
animals
is
[Minutus]
site
and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations
regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any
document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this
website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out
of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site
or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential,
incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever
caused.
your setting at http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus to receive a
single daily digest.

Shannon Nelson · Post by **Shannon Nelson** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:49 pm

On Jan 30, 2007, at 6:44 PM, Tanya Marquette wrote:
But (I read) in nature they would be eating the intestinal contents
(eagerly, and probably first) and organs (ditto); which *would* be a
(largly pre-digested) source of grains and veggies, and organ meats are
far more nutritious than muscle meats...
Shannon

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Youlia Anderson · Post by **Youlia Anderson** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:12 pm

On Jan 30, 2007, at 6:44 PM, Tanya Marquette wrote:
But (I read) in nature they would be eating the intestinal contents
(eagerly, and probably first) and organs (ditto); which *would* be a
(largly pre-digested) source of grains and veggies, and organ meats are
far more nutritious than muscle meats...
Shannon
----------------------
I feed my dog whole raw rabbits often. They do go for intestinal contents first, but instead of eating they carefully pull it out it and discard it.Then they eagerly eat the rabbit itself .Same with other whole prey they get. Feral cats mostly catch mice, right?, so can you imagine the amount of intestinal contents which they can find in a mouse? Can`t compare to the amount of grains they receive from commercial food. Not to mention the form they receive it in. 85% of pets suffer horrible periodontal disease, plenty of dogs and cats live with their teeth rotten by the age of three.Can you imagine the pain they suffer silently? I can`t believe that people who practice Homeopathy can`t understand the basics of a species appropriate diet.
Google the images of periodontal disease in pets so you see for yourself the suffering caused by commercial junk.
Then take a look at the mouths of rawfed dogs and cats here:
http://www.rawfeddogs.net/PhotoGallerie ... php?term=4

Youlia Anderson

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Shannon Nelson · Post by **Shannon Nelson** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:25 pm

Interesting, thank you!
The thing I'd read was (if I'm remembering right) specifically
observing wolves. Some maybe there's a species difference, or maybe
that observation--or my memory--was wrong, I don't know.
? Not a lot, you mean? Ours (not feral, but occasional hunters) seem
to eat the whole thing, tho I have on occasion found a set of entrails,
occasionally a skin or head, but not usually...
Shannon

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Youlia Anderson · Post by **Youlia Anderson** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:04 pm

37 AM, Youlia Anderson wrote:
Interesting, thank you!
The thing I'd read was (if I'm remembering right) specifically
observing wolves. Some maybe there's a species difference, or maybe
that observation--or my memory--was wrong, I don't know.
-----------------------
There is a well known researcher ,David Mech, who observed wolves in the wild for years and according to him wolves don`t eat stomach contents of a prey. They shake them vigorously and eat the linings, but not the contents.This is why I don`t bother feeding any kind of vegetables to my dogs, except for an occasional leftover from our table..
? Not a lot, you mean? Ours (not feral, but occasional hunters) seem
to eat the whole thing, tho I have on occasion found a set of entrails,
occasionally a skin or head, but not usually...
--------------
Yes, that is what I mean, there is not much grains even if they do eat whole mice.And the feral cats around my place always leave intestines of the birds they catch.Feeding a carnivore is really pretty simple,whole prey or parts of it over time, nothing complicated. When I place my puppies the first requirement is to feed raw.I just don`t see how eating processed food can promote any health.There are plenty of interesting read on this site:
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html
One of the myths on this site covers the subject of wolves eating stomach contents of a prey.Youlia

Shannon

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Shannon Nelson · Post by **Shannon Nelson** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:21 pm

Again, I the piece that I read and referred to talked about
*intestinal* contents, not stomach. I'm thinking there would be a very
big difference--acid is in the stomach, not the intestines; intestinal
contents would be much more digested/broken down than stomach contents.
Wolves do (or so I read from an apparently reputable source) eat small
prey whole, but in those the stomach contents would not amount to much.
I've also read (Lordy, where and why???) that dogs' and wolves' dietary
needs and tolerances are *not* the same, due to dogs' very long
association with humans and human food! I guess the bottom line is, if
your dogs are doing fine without eating any intestinal contents (or
even vegetable analog)

--great! LOL. I'm only repeating what
I've read... Personally dog gets kibble and table scraps, tho I'm very
interested in the idea of feeding something better than kibble!
Very reasonable!! Tho dogs have evidently been sharing "man's" diet
for quite a long time, including cooked foods... (Some say that cooked
food is not good for people either, but that's disputed.)
Thanks, I will have a look.
Never heard that one

--but the *intestinal* contents is what I
had read. (And I would assume that means "small intestines", not
large!)
Best,
Shannon
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Irene de Villiers · Post by **Irene de Villiers** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:28 am

Robert & Shannon Nelson wrote:

Are you sure?
My Siberian Husky used to run the intestines of her prey (mostly
muskrats) through her teeth. It looked like she was carefully pulling
them out - and she was - except she was squeezing out the contents into
her mouth as she went, and THEN discarding the intestines.
I know for sure that small wild cats do that - They run the intestines
through their teeth to get out the contents - leaving the actual
intestines uneaten unless they are starving. Alec Sliwa of World
Wildlife Foundation (Germany) confirmed that for me before I printed my
article on African Black-footed cats (F nigripe) about ten years ago in
PawPrint. Alec lived with the little cats in the Kalahari desert for
seven years in order to study them up close!

Whatever dogs do or do not do with prey intestines these days - they DO
need the fermentable aspects of grain along with the gut bacteria - and
prey intestines would be a natural source of these. That would provide
HUGE quantities of active bacteria - whereas the way we feed carnivores
only provides a minimum - and research shows that providing the
substrate (rice bran, beet fiber for example being best) is more
important than providing the bacteria

It's only a side effect that carnivores digest some grain as a result -
but it is a fact that dogs can extract more from grain than from fruit
and veg, nutritionally speaking.
(Fruit and veg are BIG no-nos for cats)

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."