OT -question on cat food @ Irene and Gaby, was AIDs --a sinister invention

[Shannon Nelson]

I've been told--and it surely makes sense--that depends on whether you
are feeding wet or dry food--with wet they don't need it, but with dry
they definitely do.
Yeast is *wonderful* in my experience--we use brewers yeast to keep
fleas off the animals. It works *very* well, except you can't afford
to skip more than a day, or the fleas come back... But our animals
have always loved the yeast, and will eat the yeast layer off of the
food first--in greater quantity than they actually need for repelling
the fleas.
Shannon

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[Youlia Anderson]

Yeast is *wonderful* in my experience--we use brewers yeast to keep
fleas off the animals. It works *very* well, except you can't afford
to skip more than a day, or the fleas come back... But our animals
have always loved the yeast, and will eat the yeast layer off of the
food first--in greater quantity than they actually need for repelling
the fleas.
Shannon
----------------------
This is interesting that you mention fleas. I was battling fleas on my dogs for a few years.After I switched my dogs to raw( four years ago), stopped vaccinating and employed a Homeopath to work with my animals, the fleas went away and didn`t come back.Youlia Anderson

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[Luise Kunkle]

Hi Gaby,

Thank you - it does help.

While the vet who recommended Royal Canine is my "first choice" as far
as vets are concerned (althought allopath) - I do not know to what
degree she has studied what Irene called "the science of dog/cat
nutricion":-)

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

[Luise Kunkle]

Hi Ginny,

if it were as you say, no cats or dogs raised and kept on commercial
foods could live a healthy life into old age. I have known a lot who
did.

Also: There may be Thousands of people worldwide, as represented by
the group you list, who can feed their cats and dogs the way you
describe.

Most, however, cannot.

To get freshly slaughtered beat I should have to drive 30 miles or so
to the slaughter house - and would not get it, because they do not
sell to private people. To get it fresh, for a cat or even dog, I
would have to drive every day (I do agree with Irene as far as cats
go - mine have always been very picky as far as freshness is
concerned)

Perhaps frozen fresh would be ok - but I would not know where I could
get any such food.

So I as most people have to compromise - and unless you offer a
compromise more viable than Irene's, hers seems to be the best
available.

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

[Luise Kunkle]

Hi Irene,

yes, indeed am I interested in the site you list below.

I'll be on it soon:-)

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

[Shannon Nelson]

That makes sense!
"Pests" prey on the susceptible; whether person, animal or plant, the
best defense is simple good health!
Shannon

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[Shannon Nelson]

Actually there are some people who can be (so far as can be seen, and
at least for quite a while) quite healthy even eating junk food, so
that doesn't prove too much... What would be more telling is to watch
the progress over generations. I also found the difference between the
two pens--where the kibble-fed cats' pen could not support even weeds,
while the raw-fed ones' did--to be *very* interesting...
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[Youlia Anderson]

Jan 31, 2007, at 10:05 AM, Youlia Anderson wrote:
--------
That makes sense!
"Pests" prey on the susceptible; whether person, animal or plant, the
best defense is simple good health!
Shannon
---------------------
Couldn`t agree more!Youlia

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[Gaby Rottler]

Hi Irene,
I'm not going deeper into this discussion - I'm not a nutritionist.
Lisa's site is one site, and she has good experiences with what she
does.
On the other hand Your argumentation sure is helpful for those cat
owners, who are still seeking more information, more background.

And of course I agree, one should always read ingredients labels (for
human and pet use).

Canned/dry/raw:

There are studies about thyroid influences with one sort, others with
kidney damaging for the other, of course the dental vets have very clear
experiences with one or the other and so on.

I really doubt that there is a simple solution, only one way of 'how to
do it right' for all cats. Some ways are/may be better than others, but
not every individual pet-owner will want to go it.

All the best,

Gaby

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gaby Rottler
Germany
rottler@curantur.de
http://www.curantur.de
***Scriptum homoeopathicum***
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Irene de Villiers]

Gaby Rottler wrote:

With respect - it's not whether the food is dry, canned or raw that will
be relevant in the studies - it is what is IN these foods that will
cause the result of the study.

So this is the kind of study where a "test" of say "canned versus dry"
will be biased by the individual ingredients of the specific canned or
dry food used in the study. It is also biased by the feeding times and
type of water.
Many of these studies will use a food by the manufacturer supporting
the study (easy to check at a place like petfooddirect.com which lists
ingredients of various brands) against a food they KNOW is
inappropriate, from a competitor.
So basically they are comparing apples with oranges and reporting
that oranges have "insufficient apple" in them on analysis. There's
nothing valid about testing oranges for apple content - and the "Dry
versus canned" studies are equally faulty.

There ARE studies that use the same food ingredients dry and wet - and
they will show benefits of dry provided it is fed 24/7. These are rare
studies as there is no commercial food that provides dry and canned
equivalents. ALL the canned food has the same gooey junk added.

Dry food should not be meal-fed. So any study that does so, is also biased.
Cats in general should not be meal-fed. Their high protein metabolism
needs constant protein nibbles. (Insects suffice in the wild)

Water is very relevant. Studies often use tap water with whatever horrid
stuff is in it. Cats have more water taste buds than any other kind and
the taste of their water is very relevant to them. So is the
presentation. They hate being forced to drink from bowls into which
their whiskers do not fit - as their eyesight is very poor up close and
they need whiskers to feel where the water surface is so as not to dunk
a nose under water. Cats will avoid water if they have to breathe it
first to find where the surface is - and smarter cats will put food or
something into the water to help locate the surface they can not see.
(An opaque water bowl, like a coloured punch bowl is better than a
reflective steel or clear glass one - or your cat will try the toilet
bowl which fits this description.)
These factors all can skew studies, which then make conclusions to do
with food that are really to do with poor water supply.

Water supply is indeed less relevant in a canned food diet - but cats'
water requirements should not be confused with benefits of the dry food
being tested - which have to do with the CONTENT of the dry food.

In addition - the short term studies used are not enough to show the
gingivitis issues over time with canned food nor the failure of the gut
to absorb nutrients through a layer of gooey carrageenan as in canned
food but not dry.
Statistics where I worked (vet clinic with 2400 cats on the books for 25
years) showed clearly that dry-food only cats had less "dentals" than
those on canned who had yearly requirements.
My own cats used to get canned food as a treat - till I realized it was
the cause of the gingivitis I saw in my older cat - and I swapped to dry
only with canned from real food sources only such as salmon, sardines,
chicken turkey - as in cans for people - no more "cat food" cans.

I advocate FILTERED water for cats, in a large amber or green etc punch
bowl - placed AWAY from the food area. How much water an individual cat
consumes will be in accordance with at least these factors:
Environment (heat, moisture etc)
Activity level
Constitutional type.
[For example Sulph cats need 2 cups a day against 1 or less for another
constitutional type of same size in the same environment. Neither is
ill, it's just individuality at work.]
Moisture in food.
I strive for the "best interests of the cat" type solutions. As with
anything else in homeopathy that is individual. What I advocate for cats
in general is inappropriate for diabetic cats for example due to the 34%
carbohydrate content which is too high - and so on.
But there is usefulness in finding a "current best commercial option"
for the great majority of cats in my view. I also advocate a home made
approach for those that want it - but it is not the simplistic "throw
raw meat and bones with toxins added" that is so commonly advocated.

Having a standard for healthy cats of the "best I can find currently"
makes a good starting place for clients, and provides a yardstick for
other options that vary from this.
NAmaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."