arnica case - chronic/acute

[VR VR]

First of all, thanks for all those who responded regarding the chronic diarrhea case. The cocculum seems to have aggravated and then helped somewhat, but as some of you said, it looks like the whole thing needs a deeper remedy and pathological prescribing doesn't go deep enough. The patient has needed Thuja in the past, and I think may need it again as Hahnemannian suggested.
Anyway - this query is about a case involving Arnica. The patient is a man in his late 50s, who received Arnica after trauma to his foot about half a year ago. The minute he took the remedy, even before the pain relief, he said he felt a tremendous sense of well being in his entire body (and mind). The arnica was very helpful to him. Because of his reaction, the next time he felt unwell I gave him arnica again, even though it wasn't an acute, and again the response was very good.
He's been going through a lot of dental procedures. When he started, I gave him arnica, which helped so much he decided on his own to take it BEFORE the next procedure. Unfortunately, during the next procedure he started bleeding heavily and the dentists couldn't continue - which teaches a lot about arnica prophylaxis as a double-edged sword.
Now I'm not sure what to do for him. I've told him that after a dental procedure where there is a while to go before the next one, he can use Arnica, but if procedures are close to each other he may land up with bleeding again. He's just had dental implants put in and is in some pain, but is due for a root canal in 3 weeks time. I'm thinking of telling him to take the arnica but only over 2 or 3 days at most, to make sure that the remedy won't interfere with the root canal. What do you think? Arnica is clearly a chronic for him, and many of the mentals, generals and physicals agree.
Vera


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[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Vera,
I assume (for no good reason) that the dose that provoked the bleeding
was a high potency? I wonder if e.g. 6c would give him the help he
needs without provoking bleeding? Or maybe he could take that until a
week or so before the surgery, then stop to be on the safe side?
Shannon
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[Shannon Nelson]

PS--Tho I've heard of arnica being needed as a chronic remedy, I've
never actually seen / heard any cases. Can you share a bit about how
arnica connects with his chronic state--was there a lot of physical or
emotional trauma, for instance?
Shannon
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[DCR]

Is there a specific reason you believe the single incident of bleeding during a dental proceedure was caused or aggrivated by Arnica? We can assume there is some significant condition requiring all this work (proceedures, implants and root canals) which could be contributing to bleeding. On occasion, dentists slip up and love to have something to blame other than themselves. There are also many natural variations in clotting factors, and plenty of medicines, herbs, and supplements that cause variations in clotting factors. When you have a remedy that you believe is well matched to an individual, it would seem that the other factors would be examined closely before immediately considering this as a reaction to using occasional doses of arnica.

[Jean Doherty]

I wonder if a complimentary to Arnica i.e. Hypericum would be
helpful here, Jean
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[muthu kumar]

Vera-

May be he has started proving Arnica? If he is Arnica constitution
then if you have given him Arnica earlier and if you think it might
still be acting, he may not need it again....and it is aggravating or
proving when you repeat...

Alcohol is supposed to be inimical to Arnica ( wine) and increase the
unpleasant effects - anything like that happening?

Ipecac is complementary to Arnica, follows it well and also is an
antidote and Calendula also follows Arnica well. Calendula has
hemostatic properties after tooth extraction as well. See if there is
any fit for the patient in the acute bleeding phase in either of these
two.

If Arnica looks like his constitutional then one of its related
medicines or antidote should work in the acute phase.... ( Would you
give a person's constitutional just before an acute procedure?
Of course in this case he is undergoing a procedure for which Arnica
might be the acute medicine as well.)

Considering all of this rearchitecture work that has been going on
inside his mouth - Staph, Hekla, Hypericum etc. might also be indicated.

Probably probe a little more into what are the actual teeth involved,
pus, pain, modalities, other concomitants and you could get a
follow-up remedy.
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, VR VR wrote:
chronic diarrhea case. The cocculum seems to have aggravated and then
helped somewhat, but as some of you said, it looks like the whole
thing needs a deeper remedy and pathological prescribing doesn't go
deep enough. The patient has needed Thuja in the past, and I think
may need it again as Hahnemannian suggested.
is a man in his late 50s, who received Arnica after trauma to his foot
about half a year ago. The minute he took the remedy, even before the
pain relief, he said he felt a tremendous sense of well being in his
entire body (and mind). The arnica was very helpful to him. Because
of his reaction, the next time he felt unwell I gave him arnica again,
even though it wasn't an acute, and again the response was very good.
started, I gave him arnica, which helped so much he decided on his own
to take it BEFORE the next procedure. Unfortunately, during the next
procedure he started bleeding heavily and the dentists couldn't
continue - which teaches a lot about arnica prophylaxis as a
double-edged sword.
dental procedure where there is a while to go before the next one, he
can use Arnica, but if procedures are close to each other he may land
up with bleeding again. He's just had dental implants put in and is
in some pain, but is due for a root canal in 3 weeks time. I'm
thinking of telling him to take the arnica but only over 2 or 3 days
at most, to make sure that the remedy won't interfere with the root
canal. What do you think? Arnica is clearly a chronic for him, and
many of the mentals, generals and physicals agree.

[Shannon Nelson]

I was indeed taught to consider doing just that.
I was also taught to consider trying first, giving a dose of the
constitutional for "whatever came up". Sometimes it works and
sometimes it doesn't, but my (two) people who suggested this felt that
it was the best approach, if it proved to work for the situation.
(Obviously this would not apply to e.g. emergency first-aid
situations!)

Mangialavore does not consider a remedy to be truly, deeply simillimum
*unless* it handles "whatever comes up."
Yup, so why hesitate... Using Eizayaga's model, if you see the same
remedy indicated for both the "pathological" and the "functional" (what
we'd usually call "constitutional") levels, then you kind of have a
no-brainer for a choice, and you will expect the same remedy to
continue working thru both sets of issues. Would you see any reason
*not* to give an indicated acute remedy, merely because it's also been
effective constitutionally?
These paragraphs, tho, I could not disagree with!
Best,
Shannon

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[muthu kumar]

Sometimes it works and
that > it was the best approach, if it proved to work for the situation.

If it proved to work for the situation, why not? But you know that
only after the fact-
Also giving the constitutional just before an acute might not be a
good idea all the time- constitutional brings up deeper issues which
might not be appropriately handled during an acute procedure... in
general constitutional offers a good protection - but that is usually
after the constitutional has been given for a while and a lot of
issues have been addressed and the patient is relatively balanced...

Also repeating the constitutional like an acute can create problems -
as this case in point...
Good for him- there are cases where it could be like that - but not
all- at least not in my practice - Well this makes you wonder about
the rest of the 99.99% of homeopathic prescriptions - right?
Well, it is just might be - not must be

foot
again,
his own

[Shannon Nelson]

True, so for some situations it wouldn't be appropriate, I realize.
Yes, that makes sense... Tho *most* of the time (in my experience)
repeating a chronic remedy that has already "proved itself" as working
well, does not bring upheaval, but rather *settles* those imbalances
that are presently being expressed. In most cases the process of
bringing up deeper issues is a slow, gradual process, where the old set
of issues falls away and new concerns gradually crystallize. However
sometimes I'll avoid repeating a less-tested chronic remedy right
before a stress, for concern over possible "aggravation", and also not
knowing how soon it will kick in...

When you're saying "before an acute", I assume you're meaning a
"planned trauma" such as this dental surgery? As far as giving it in
attempt to nip an oncoming acute illness, I recall reading that that
can (sometimes) make the illness temporarily worse, by further clogging
the already-clogged organs of discharge. The "argument" makes sense to
me, and if it's been observed to happen, I could hardly argue with
that. (Just thinking out loud.) OTOH my first prescriber (of about
eight very fruitful years) would always look first to see whether my
"upheaval" (and in the early years I had lots of them!!!!) fell under
the picture of my chronic remedy. Often it did, and in that case he'd
have me use same remedy, in a different potency according to the
present expression. If a different remedy appeared indicated by the
symptoms, he would give a different remedy instead.
aspirations for the chronic remedy, and had me use it *even* when a
different remedy seemed indicated by the symptoms. On (?)a few notable
occasions that too worked well (which surprised me). It's a puzzlement
for me... So, I figure this is another situation where there are
various possibilities...
That makes sense to me.
(thinking...) Well, *if* that is what happened... But, I would
continue to think that if the constitutional seems to be the
*indicated* remedy for the situation, that's what would make sense to
give. In this case, I guess we're left with a lot of guess-work...
Maybe arnica simply didn't cover the situation, not a question of
overrepetition... ?

Nope, certainly not all. I find it interesting to hold out as a
possible *goal*, and I assume that the more deeply / broadly suited a
remedy is, the more deeply / broadly applicable it will be (that is,
the more different situations it can resolve). I do know that
Mangialavore does not hit this goal with anything like every
prescription either, tho I don't know how often he achieves it, these
days--anyone out there know what he says???

And I also know that most of us (at least in my experience of my own
and others' prescribing) do not come anywhere close to his materia
medica or prescribing skills. (And of those who *do* match his depth
and breadth, of course most are prescribing in different ways and with
different goals, so I am certainly not trying to set this goal up as a
measuring stick for anyone's skill in prescribing!!!! Just musing
about it, because I've been intrigued by what I've heard, and still
trying to fit these various approaches into context with each other.)

You're quite right.

Yes, and that would be interesting to do! (Gotta go get munchkins up.)
Cheers,
Shannon

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[Joy Lucas]

Just a few thoughts...

arnica is one of the homeopathic happy pills and is wonderful for the
trauma of grief as well as physical trauma (if the sx fit) and it is
possible that the arnica opened up a few doors for him, nudged a much
deeper grief that actually requires another rx altogether and repeating
the arnica won't necessarily help - I would be asking him how it really
helped and if there are deeper emotional traumas in his past (remember
that Arnica helps trauma even those of long long ago)

arnica also tells you they are well when in fact they are seriously
ill, so you need to really take a full follow up after prescribing it
when they report this kind of well being - I've seen this quite a few
times

arnica isn't the only rx for dental problems - if there is bleeding
consider one of the other haemorrhagic rx such as Hamamelis

hope useful, best wishes, Joy

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