Dear Ardavan and Colleagues
The method that you are using in analyzing of new miasms (New chronic infections) is very similar to what Dr Hahnemann has done for Psora and almost sycosis and syphilis. but I belive carry it to excess will cause reductionism and trying to treat diseases separately instead of totality of symptoms. We all know that Hahnemann himself was the first person who talked about presence of two or three disease at the same time in a patient (Organon 40-42) but he insists in the same book that disease is nothing except imbalance of V.F (Organon 12-13) and there is nothing except “totality of Symptoms” which guide us to this imbalance.
It sounds till the last moments, Hahnemann has been completely against this idea to separate the symptoms of different diseases except for these 3 or few especial diseases. In my opinion this is the most important paradox in Organon that has caused a lot of deviations in the history of Homeopathy. Let’s see how we can discuss about this paradox and use it for recognizing new miasms.
As all of us know, Miasm means contagious infectious disease. We have several chronic miasms but if you go through “Chronic Disease,…” Hahnemann call some of them like leper, Herpes and sometimes TB as a part of Psora and call two of them as New (Different) miasm with Psora. It sounds he had some boundaries among chronic Miasms to call same of them the same as psora (Not New Miasm) and some of them different with Psora (New Miasm). If we could know these boundaries, we could use them in answering of such difficult questions like:
Is AIDS a new miasm?
Is Adeno virus infection a new miasm?
Is cancer a different miasm with psora?
For answering this important question, we need to go a little back in the principles of Homeopathy. The concept of susceptibility! Hahnemann says (Organon 31):
” The inimical forces, partly psychical, partly physical, to which our terrestrial existence is exposed, which are termed morbific noxious agents, do not possess the power of morbidly deranging the health of man unconditionally1; but we are made ill by them only when our organism is sufficiently disposed and susceptible to attack of the morbific cause that may be present, and to be altered in its health, deranged and made to undergo abnormal sensations and functions - hence they do not produce disease in every one nor at all times.”
It means for affecting by any new disease we need to have some grades of susceptibility. But what is the source of this susceptibility. It should be something that there is no in complete healthy status. Why? Because if there was in complete health status every body should be affected by it and it is against the definition of susceptibility. For example any person will die after eating 1 Kg of Arsenical poison. We never say every body is susceptible to Arsenical poison.
Therefore susceptibility shows up itself when we are not in the health state and in other word we are sick (Organon 8 – footnote). In summary the source of susceptibility is previous disease and unhealthy state of V.F.
Now, one interesting deduction; in affecting by any new disease we have to have some degree of previous disease. Therefore the rules of interaction between two diseases in the nature will come to force.
The new disease is similar or dissimilar to existing disease. If it is similar, the result will be annihilation of both and cure of patient. If it is dissimilar and weaker it can not affect the person (Organon 36). Therefore any new disease should be a stronger dissimilar disease.
Now we need to have a deeper look on concept of susceptibility and categorize new diseases on the basis of this concept. We discussed that susceptibility is nothing except existing disease of patient or in other word exit from health status. This exit can be considered in two aspects:
Quantity of exit: as far as the gap between health and current state of patient increases, the power of V.F decreases and the power of existing internal disease increases
Quality of exit: depend on quality of exit from health, different patients show special susceptibility to special diseases. For example one person is very susceptible to cold another one to indigestion or sunshine (Organon 72)
If we consider the first option, when the patient is still close to health status, because the susceptibility is less and VF is powerful, the new (Dissimilar disease) should be very strong to penetrate the V.F resistance.
Interesting when the gap with health is big and the susceptibility is high, because of strong internal disease, again a weak dissimilar disease can not affect the patient. Therefore it should be a strong dissimilar disease.
The most exciting results come up when you consider the second option. Second option says because of special state of patient, there are some new diseases (Sporadic diseases) that can affect this special person but can not affect other patient with the same power of V.F. (If it could affect any person with the same quantity of V.F power, we should not observe special susceptibility only in special person). It means the new disease is not strong enough to overcome either resistance of V.F or power of internal existing disease. Therefore it is not a stronger dissimilar disease.
We proved above that any new disease should be a stronger dissimilar disease. Then, what are these sporadic diseases???
The only possible answer is: they are not a new disease. They are exacerbation of existing internal disease (Chronic disease) because of triggering by the external morbific agent.
If this deduction is correct, the symptoms and pictures of such diseases (Sporadic) should be independent to external morbific agent and individual in relation of chronic disease of patient. Clinical experiences support this result. You easily observe one patient says “I always catch a cold in the same picture; starts with for example running nose, then loss of smelling and finally sinusitis.” And it is completely different with another patient with the same susceptibility to cold and even if the second person catch the cold from first one. (Notice we are talking about sporadic cold not epidemic one).
In summary; Sporadic diseases are not a new disease
Now lets return to the answer of first question; how can we recognize new and different miasms from Psora?
Considering above deductions, answer is easy. They should be very strong dissimilar contagious infections? What you get from this issue?
They should be epidemic diseases
They should be so strong to have no need any special susceptibility. Therefore they should be able to affect even the most robust persons.
Proving the correctness of these deductions, should you refer to “Chronic Disease,…”, you see both of these criteria have been mentioned for all three basic Hahnemannian miasms (Psora, sycosis and syphilis).
Any chronic contagious infection that needs special susceptibility for affecting the patient like Leper, TB,…. Should be considered as sporadic disease and therefore they are not a new disease. They are exacerbation of basic miasm and mostly Psora. Now please you tell me. Can cancer be a new different miasm? What about miasms that Ardavan is trying to introduce? What about AIDS?
Still we face the paradox between Aphorism 13 and 40-42. It needs another long article which is beyond of the patience of this manuscript.
Regards
F. Shaddel
Associate Professor in Organon and Principles
Secretary General, PHAU
Education Affairs Director CTCH
Administrator to HMA, UK in Middle East
-----------------------------
CTCH Administration Office
Tel: +971-4-3902257
Fax: +971-4-3664619
Email: ctch@bc.kv.ae
Website: www.scientifichom.com
PO Box: 502221, KV, Dubai, UAE
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Adenoviridae & Poxviridae - threat of Reductionism
-
Dr. F. Shaddel
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
-
Ardavan Shahrdar
- Moderator
- Posts: 1277
- Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2000 10:00 pm
Re: Adenoviridae & Poxviridae - threat of Reductionism
Dear Farshad,
There are several items here which should be discussed separately.
1. Definition of reductionism and see if the method can be considered as a type of reductionism.
2. Concept of Susceptibility.
3. Refering to Organon in a rationalistic discussion and threat of scholastic biases.
4. Interaction of diseases.
5. Definition of Sporadic diseases.
First of all I want to emphasize on the fact that I am just analyzing miasms (infectious diseases). These definitions has nothing to do directly with Cancers, AIDS,.... Cancer is not a miasm; it is the manifestation of developement of a miasm. What you see in AIDS patients, is the activation of latent miasms or new miasms because of the increased susceptibility cause by HIV miasm. So you cannot approach the AIDS patients with a Genus epidemicus study of HIV alone. AIDS patients actually suffer and die because of development of miasms such as HHV-8, VZV, EBV, HSV-2,.... and you should individualize the patients according to active miasm.
With understanding the miasms, you are not ignoring individualization. You still need to find the valuable dynamic symptoms of the patient. But the picture will be completed with your epidemic knowledge of the natural diseases. We should first find out 'what is to be cured in the disease' which is generally a chronic miasms infectious disease and then find the suitable medicinal disease for prescription.
By the way, do you believe that Hahnemann considered TB as a sporadic disease??!! As far as I know he considered pulmonary consumption as a manifestations of developed Psora in the same category as Diabetes, Heart diseases, Goitre,.. It seems that he did not even believe that pulmonary consumption is a contagious disease. (Footnote designated by * in the in the theoretical part of HN's chronic diseases page 143).
A question....... If you were Hahnemann, how would you give yourself a permission to add a new venereal disease to his Sycosis and Syphilis?? What is your criteria for considering an infection a new miasm that can be put alongside with Sycosis and Syphilis? As you know, what Hahnemann called Sycosis was considered a part of Syphilis before his proposal. Why did he give himself a permission for introucing a new venereal miasm? We will discuss about Psora later.
Regards,
Ardavan
"Dr. F. Shaddel" wrote:
Dear Ardavan and Colleagues
The method that you are using in analyzing of new miasms (New chronic infections) is very similar to what Dr Hahnemann has done for Psora and almost sycosis and syphilis. but I belive carry it to excess will cause reductionism and trying to treat diseases separately instead of totality of symptoms. We all know that Hahnemann himself was the first person who talked about presence of two or three disease at the same time in a patient (Organon 40-42) but he insists in the same book that disease is nothing except imbalance of V.F (Organon 12-13) and there is nothing except “totality of Symptoms” which guide us to this imbalance.
It sounds till the last moments, Hahnemann has been completely against this idea to separate the symptoms of different diseases except for these 3 or few especial diseases. In my opinion this is the most important paradox in Organon that has caused a lot of deviations in the history of Homeopathy. Let’s see how we can discuss about this paradox and use it for recognizing new miasms.
As all of us know, Miasm means contagious infectious disease. We have several chronic miasms but if you go through “Chronic Disease,…” Hahnemann call some of them like leper, Herpes and sometimes TB as a part of Psora and call two of them as New (Different) miasm with Psora. It sounds he had some boundaries among chronic Miasms to call same of them the same as psora (Not New Miasm) and some of them different with Psora (New Miasm). If we could know these boundaries, we could use them in answering of such difficult questions like:
Is AIDS a new miasm?
Is Adeno virus infection a new miasm?
Is cancer a different miasm with psora?
For answering this important question, we need to go a little back in the principles of Homeopathy. The concept of susceptibility! Hahnemann says (Organon 31):
” The inimical forces, partly psychical, partly physical, to which our terrestrial existence is exposed, which are termed morbific noxious agents, do not possess the power of morbidly deranging the health of man unconditionally1; but we are made ill by them only when our organism is sufficiently disposed and susceptible to attack of the morbific cause that may be present, and to be altered in its health, deranged and made to undergo abnormal sensations and functions - hence they do not produce disease in every one nor at all times.”
It means for affecting by any new disease we need to have some grades of susceptibility. But what is the source of this susceptibility. It should be something that there is no in complete healthy status. Why? Because if there was in complete health status every body should be affected by it and it is against the definition of susceptibility. For example any person will die after eating 1 Kg of Arsenical poison. We never say every body is susceptible to Arsenical poison.
Therefore susceptibility shows up itself when we are not in the health state and in other word we are sick (Organon 8 – footnote). In summary the source of susceptibility is previous disease and unhealthy state of V.F.
Now, one interesting deduction; in affecting by any new disease we have to have some degree of previous disease. Therefore the rules of interaction between two diseases in the nature will come to force.
The new disease is similar or dissimilar to existing disease. If it is similar, the result will be annihilation of both and cure of patient. If it is dissimilar and weaker it can not affect the person (Organon 36). Therefore any new disease should be a stronger dissimilar disease.
Now we need to have a deeper look on concept of susceptibility and categorize new diseases on the basis of this concept. We discussed that susceptibility is nothing except existing disease of patient or in other word exit from health status. This exit can be considered in two aspects:
Quantity of exit: as far as the gap between health and current state of patient increases, the power of V.F decreases and the power of existing internal disease increases
Quality of exit: depend on quality of exit from health, different patients show special susceptibility to special diseases. For example one person is very susceptible to cold another one to indigestion or sunshine (Organon 72)
If we consider the first option, when the patient is still close to health status, because the susceptibility is less and VF is powerful, the new (Dissimilar disease) should be very strong to penetrate the V.F resistance.
Interesting when the gap with health is big and the susceptibility is high, because of strong internal disease, again a weak dissimilar disease can not affect the patient. Therefore it should be a strong dissimilar disease.
The most exciting results come up when you consider the second option. Second option says because of special state of patient, there are some new diseases (Sporadic diseases) that can affect this special person but can not affect other patient with the same power of V.F. (If it could affect any person with the same quantity of V.F power, we should not observe special susceptibility only in special person). It means the new disease is not strong enough to overcome either resistance of V.F or power of internal existing disease. Therefore it is not a stronger dissimilar disease.
We proved above that any new disease should be a stronger dissimilar disease. Then, what are these sporadic diseases???
The only possible answer is: they are not a new disease. They are exacerbation of existing internal disease (Chronic disease) because of triggering by the external morbific agent.
If this deduction is correct, the symptoms and pictures of such diseases (Sporadic) should be independent to external morbific agent and individual in relation of chronic disease of patient. Clinical experiences support this result. You easily observe one patient says “I always catch a cold in the same picture; starts with for example running nose, then loss of smelling and finally sinusitis.” And it is completely different with another patient with the same susceptibility to cold and even if the second person catch the cold from first one. (Notice we are talking about sporadic cold not epidemic one).
In summary; Sporadic diseases are not a new disease
Now lets return to the answer of first question; how can we recognize new and different miasms from Psora?
Considering above deductions, answer is easy. They should be very strong dissimilar contagious infections? What you get from this issue?
They should be epidemic diseases
They should be so strong to have no need any special susceptibility. Therefore they should be able to affect even the most robust persons.
Proving the correctness of these deductions, should you refer to “Chronic Disease,…”, you see both of these criteria have been mentioned for all three basic Hahnemannian miasms (Psora, sycosis and syphilis).
Any chronic contagious infection that needs special susceptibility for affecting the patient like Leper, TB,…. Should be considered as sporadic disease and therefore they are not a new disease. They are exacerbation of basic miasm and mostly Psora. Now please you tell me. Can cancer be a new different miasm? What about miasms that Ardavan is trying to introduce? What about AIDS?
Still we face the paradox between Aphorism 13 and 40-42. It needs another long article which is beyond of the patience of this manuscript.
Regards
F. Shaddel
Associate Professor in Organon and Principles
Secretary General, PHAU
Education Affairs Director CTCH
Administrator to HMA, UK in Middle East
-----------------------------
CTCH Administration Office
Tel: +971-4-3902257
Fax: +971-4-3664619
Email: ctch@bc.kv.ae
Website: www.scientifichom.com
PO Box: 502221, KV, Dubai, UAE
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Visit Minutus Website at http://www.minutus.org
ATTENTION PLEASE:
The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.
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There are several items here which should be discussed separately.
1. Definition of reductionism and see if the method can be considered as a type of reductionism.
2. Concept of Susceptibility.
3. Refering to Organon in a rationalistic discussion and threat of scholastic biases.
4. Interaction of diseases.
5. Definition of Sporadic diseases.
First of all I want to emphasize on the fact that I am just analyzing miasms (infectious diseases). These definitions has nothing to do directly with Cancers, AIDS,.... Cancer is not a miasm; it is the manifestation of developement of a miasm. What you see in AIDS patients, is the activation of latent miasms or new miasms because of the increased susceptibility cause by HIV miasm. So you cannot approach the AIDS patients with a Genus epidemicus study of HIV alone. AIDS patients actually suffer and die because of development of miasms such as HHV-8, VZV, EBV, HSV-2,.... and you should individualize the patients according to active miasm.
With understanding the miasms, you are not ignoring individualization. You still need to find the valuable dynamic symptoms of the patient. But the picture will be completed with your epidemic knowledge of the natural diseases. We should first find out 'what is to be cured in the disease' which is generally a chronic miasms infectious disease and then find the suitable medicinal disease for prescription.
By the way, do you believe that Hahnemann considered TB as a sporadic disease??!! As far as I know he considered pulmonary consumption as a manifestations of developed Psora in the same category as Diabetes, Heart diseases, Goitre,.. It seems that he did not even believe that pulmonary consumption is a contagious disease. (Footnote designated by * in the in the theoretical part of HN's chronic diseases page 143).
A question....... If you were Hahnemann, how would you give yourself a permission to add a new venereal disease to his Sycosis and Syphilis?? What is your criteria for considering an infection a new miasm that can be put alongside with Sycosis and Syphilis? As you know, what Hahnemann called Sycosis was considered a part of Syphilis before his proposal. Why did he give himself a permission for introucing a new venereal miasm? We will discuss about Psora later.
Regards,
Ardavan
"Dr. F. Shaddel" wrote:
Dear Ardavan and Colleagues
The method that you are using in analyzing of new miasms (New chronic infections) is very similar to what Dr Hahnemann has done for Psora and almost sycosis and syphilis. but I belive carry it to excess will cause reductionism and trying to treat diseases separately instead of totality of symptoms. We all know that Hahnemann himself was the first person who talked about presence of two or three disease at the same time in a patient (Organon 40-42) but he insists in the same book that disease is nothing except imbalance of V.F (Organon 12-13) and there is nothing except “totality of Symptoms” which guide us to this imbalance.
It sounds till the last moments, Hahnemann has been completely against this idea to separate the symptoms of different diseases except for these 3 or few especial diseases. In my opinion this is the most important paradox in Organon that has caused a lot of deviations in the history of Homeopathy. Let’s see how we can discuss about this paradox and use it for recognizing new miasms.
As all of us know, Miasm means contagious infectious disease. We have several chronic miasms but if you go through “Chronic Disease,…” Hahnemann call some of them like leper, Herpes and sometimes TB as a part of Psora and call two of them as New (Different) miasm with Psora. It sounds he had some boundaries among chronic Miasms to call same of them the same as psora (Not New Miasm) and some of them different with Psora (New Miasm). If we could know these boundaries, we could use them in answering of such difficult questions like:
Is AIDS a new miasm?
Is Adeno virus infection a new miasm?
Is cancer a different miasm with psora?
For answering this important question, we need to go a little back in the principles of Homeopathy. The concept of susceptibility! Hahnemann says (Organon 31):
” The inimical forces, partly psychical, partly physical, to which our terrestrial existence is exposed, which are termed morbific noxious agents, do not possess the power of morbidly deranging the health of man unconditionally1; but we are made ill by them only when our organism is sufficiently disposed and susceptible to attack of the morbific cause that may be present, and to be altered in its health, deranged and made to undergo abnormal sensations and functions - hence they do not produce disease in every one nor at all times.”
It means for affecting by any new disease we need to have some grades of susceptibility. But what is the source of this susceptibility. It should be something that there is no in complete healthy status. Why? Because if there was in complete health status every body should be affected by it and it is against the definition of susceptibility. For example any person will die after eating 1 Kg of Arsenical poison. We never say every body is susceptible to Arsenical poison.
Therefore susceptibility shows up itself when we are not in the health state and in other word we are sick (Organon 8 – footnote). In summary the source of susceptibility is previous disease and unhealthy state of V.F.
Now, one interesting deduction; in affecting by any new disease we have to have some degree of previous disease. Therefore the rules of interaction between two diseases in the nature will come to force.
The new disease is similar or dissimilar to existing disease. If it is similar, the result will be annihilation of both and cure of patient. If it is dissimilar and weaker it can not affect the person (Organon 36). Therefore any new disease should be a stronger dissimilar disease.
Now we need to have a deeper look on concept of susceptibility and categorize new diseases on the basis of this concept. We discussed that susceptibility is nothing except existing disease of patient or in other word exit from health status. This exit can be considered in two aspects:
Quantity of exit: as far as the gap between health and current state of patient increases, the power of V.F decreases and the power of existing internal disease increases
Quality of exit: depend on quality of exit from health, different patients show special susceptibility to special diseases. For example one person is very susceptible to cold another one to indigestion or sunshine (Organon 72)
If we consider the first option, when the patient is still close to health status, because the susceptibility is less and VF is powerful, the new (Dissimilar disease) should be very strong to penetrate the V.F resistance.
Interesting when the gap with health is big and the susceptibility is high, because of strong internal disease, again a weak dissimilar disease can not affect the patient. Therefore it should be a strong dissimilar disease.
The most exciting results come up when you consider the second option. Second option says because of special state of patient, there are some new diseases (Sporadic diseases) that can affect this special person but can not affect other patient with the same power of V.F. (If it could affect any person with the same quantity of V.F power, we should not observe special susceptibility only in special person). It means the new disease is not strong enough to overcome either resistance of V.F or power of internal existing disease. Therefore it is not a stronger dissimilar disease.
We proved above that any new disease should be a stronger dissimilar disease. Then, what are these sporadic diseases???
The only possible answer is: they are not a new disease. They are exacerbation of existing internal disease (Chronic disease) because of triggering by the external morbific agent.
If this deduction is correct, the symptoms and pictures of such diseases (Sporadic) should be independent to external morbific agent and individual in relation of chronic disease of patient. Clinical experiences support this result. You easily observe one patient says “I always catch a cold in the same picture; starts with for example running nose, then loss of smelling and finally sinusitis.” And it is completely different with another patient with the same susceptibility to cold and even if the second person catch the cold from first one. (Notice we are talking about sporadic cold not epidemic one).
In summary; Sporadic diseases are not a new disease
Now lets return to the answer of first question; how can we recognize new and different miasms from Psora?
Considering above deductions, answer is easy. They should be very strong dissimilar contagious infections? What you get from this issue?
They should be epidemic diseases
They should be so strong to have no need any special susceptibility. Therefore they should be able to affect even the most robust persons.
Proving the correctness of these deductions, should you refer to “Chronic Disease,…”, you see both of these criteria have been mentioned for all three basic Hahnemannian miasms (Psora, sycosis and syphilis).
Any chronic contagious infection that needs special susceptibility for affecting the patient like Leper, TB,…. Should be considered as sporadic disease and therefore they are not a new disease. They are exacerbation of basic miasm and mostly Psora. Now please you tell me. Can cancer be a new different miasm? What about miasms that Ardavan is trying to introduce? What about AIDS?
Still we face the paradox between Aphorism 13 and 40-42. It needs another long article which is beyond of the patience of this manuscript.
Regards
F. Shaddel
Associate Professor in Organon and Principles
Secretary General, PHAU
Education Affairs Director CTCH
Administrator to HMA, UK in Middle East
-----------------------------
CTCH Administration Office
Tel: +971-4-3902257
Fax: +971-4-3664619
Email: ctch@bc.kv.ae
Website: www.scientifichom.com
PO Box: 502221, KV, Dubai, UAE
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Visit Minutus Website at http://www.minutus.org
ATTENTION PLEASE:
The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.
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-
Piet Guijt
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 10:00 pm
Re: Adenoviridae & Poxviridae - threat of Reductionism
Ardavan wrote:
Dear Ardavan,
With all respect, a miasm isn't just a synonym for "infectious disease". Not
every infectious disease is capable to develop or leads to a miasm.
This is David's definition: "In Hahnemannian Homeopathy the word "miasm"
means the effects of microorganism on the vital force including the symptoms
that are transmitted to the following generations. These chronic miasms are
capable of producing degenerative illnesses, auto-immune diseases and lead
the organism toward immuno-deficiency disorders."
So we are talking about the EFFECT of micro-organism on the vital force.
This effect is the result of where micro-organism and host constitution and
its background meet. The host will react depending of his individual
constitution, and already existing (basic) miasms. To define miasm as
(named) infectious disease is only half the truth, because this leaves out
the characteristic reaction pattern by the patient.
Kind regards, Piet
Dear Ardavan,
With all respect, a miasm isn't just a synonym for "infectious disease". Not
every infectious disease is capable to develop or leads to a miasm.
This is David's definition: "In Hahnemannian Homeopathy the word "miasm"
means the effects of microorganism on the vital force including the symptoms
that are transmitted to the following generations. These chronic miasms are
capable of producing degenerative illnesses, auto-immune diseases and lead
the organism toward immuno-deficiency disorders."
So we are talking about the EFFECT of micro-organism on the vital force.
This effect is the result of where micro-organism and host constitution and
its background meet. The host will react depending of his individual
constitution, and already existing (basic) miasms. To define miasm as
(named) infectious disease is only half the truth, because this leaves out
the characteristic reaction pattern by the patient.
Kind regards, Piet
-
Ardavan Shahrdar
- Moderator
- Posts: 1277
- Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2000 10:00 pm
Re: Adenoviridae & Poxviridae - threat of Reductionism
Dear Piet,
It depends on how you define the term 'miasm'. As you know there are many different definitions for this term. Some use it as 'susceptibility', some as a tool for categortization according to their own system of analysis, some as diatheses, some as obstacles to treatment,.....
I use the term equivalent to 'infectious disease' and in my opinion this is also the definition of miasm by Hahnemann. If you check all the sentences that Hahnemann has used this term, you will find out that he used the term with the meaning of infectious disease.
It is ok to use the term with other meanings but the definitions should be clear.
Warm regards,
Ardavan
Piet Guijt wrote:
Ardavan wrote:
Dear Ardavan,
With all respect, a miasm isn't just a synonym for "infectious disease". Not
every infectious disease is capable to develop or leads to a miasm.
This is David's definition: "In Hahnemannian Homeopathy the word "miasm"
means the effects of microorganism on the vital force including the symptoms
that are transmitted to the following generations. These chronic miasms are
capable of producing degenerative illnesses, auto-immune diseases and lead
the organism toward immuno-deficiency disorders."
So we are talking about the EFFECT of micro-organism on the vital force.
This effect is the result of where micro-organism and host constitution and
its background meet. The host will react depending of his individual
constitution, and already existing (basic) miasms. To define miasm as
(named) infectious disease is only half the truth, because this leaves out
the characteristic reaction pattern by the patient.
Kind regards, Piet
Visit Minutus Website at http://www.minutus.org
ATTENTION PLEASE:
The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.
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It depends on how you define the term 'miasm'. As you know there are many different definitions for this term. Some use it as 'susceptibility', some as a tool for categortization according to their own system of analysis, some as diatheses, some as obstacles to treatment,.....
I use the term equivalent to 'infectious disease' and in my opinion this is also the definition of miasm by Hahnemann. If you check all the sentences that Hahnemann has used this term, you will find out that he used the term with the meaning of infectious disease.
It is ok to use the term with other meanings but the definitions should be clear.
Warm regards,
Ardavan
Piet Guijt wrote:
Ardavan wrote:
Dear Ardavan,
With all respect, a miasm isn't just a synonym for "infectious disease". Not
every infectious disease is capable to develop or leads to a miasm.
This is David's definition: "In Hahnemannian Homeopathy the word "miasm"
means the effects of microorganism on the vital force including the symptoms
that are transmitted to the following generations. These chronic miasms are
capable of producing degenerative illnesses, auto-immune diseases and lead
the organism toward immuno-deficiency disorders."
So we are talking about the EFFECT of micro-organism on the vital force.
This effect is the result of where micro-organism and host constitution and
its background meet. The host will react depending of his individual
constitution, and already existing (basic) miasms. To define miasm as
(named) infectious disease is only half the truth, because this leaves out
the characteristic reaction pattern by the patient.
Kind regards, Piet
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Piet Guijt
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 10:00 pm
Re: Adenoviridae & Poxviridae - threat of Reductionism
Ardavan wrote:
Dear Ardavan,
By taking your advice, it is no trouble to show you that your definition is
only half the truth.
I'm not denying the infection part, but a miasmatic disease is more.
Take a look at Organon § 78 Sixth Edition:
"The true natural chronic diseases are those that arise from a chronic
miasm, which when left to themselves, and unchecked by the employment of
those remedies that are specific for them, always go on increasing and
growing worse, notwithstanding the best mental and corporeal regimen, and
torment the patient to the end of his life with ever aggravated sufferings.
These, excepting those produced by medical malpractice (§ 74), are the most
numerous and greatest scourges of the human race; for the most robust
constitution, the best regulated mode of living and the most vigorous energy
of the vital force are insufficient for their eradication.1
1 During the flourishing years of youth and with the commencement of regular
menstruation joined to a mode of life beneficial to soul, heart and body,
they remain unrecognized for years. Those afflicted appeal in perfect health
to their relatives and acquaintances and the disease that was received by
infection or inheritance seems to have wholly disappeared. But in later
years, after adverse events and conditions of life, they are sure to appear
anew and develop the more rapidly and assume a more serious character in
proportion as the vital principle has become disturbed by debilitating
passions, worry and care, but especially when disordered by inappropriate
medicinal treatment"
Hahnemann is talking about "the disease that was received by infection or
inheritance" So he is not using the term miasm exclusively with the meaning
of infectious disease, but also for inheritance, that is the constitutional
factor.
This is the definition by Hahnemann. This also illustrates why it isn't
correct to classify miasms only by the named infection. This leaves no space
for the more general (changed) constitutional reaction pattern which also
belongs to the picture of the complete miasm. In this way the Hahnemannian
miasms certainly are also general disease classifications.
Kind regards, Piet
Dear Ardavan,
By taking your advice, it is no trouble to show you that your definition is
only half the truth.
I'm not denying the infection part, but a miasmatic disease is more.
Take a look at Organon § 78 Sixth Edition:
"The true natural chronic diseases are those that arise from a chronic
miasm, which when left to themselves, and unchecked by the employment of
those remedies that are specific for them, always go on increasing and
growing worse, notwithstanding the best mental and corporeal regimen, and
torment the patient to the end of his life with ever aggravated sufferings.
These, excepting those produced by medical malpractice (§ 74), are the most
numerous and greatest scourges of the human race; for the most robust
constitution, the best regulated mode of living and the most vigorous energy
of the vital force are insufficient for their eradication.1
1 During the flourishing years of youth and with the commencement of regular
menstruation joined to a mode of life beneficial to soul, heart and body,
they remain unrecognized for years. Those afflicted appeal in perfect health
to their relatives and acquaintances and the disease that was received by
infection or inheritance seems to have wholly disappeared. But in later
years, after adverse events and conditions of life, they are sure to appear
anew and develop the more rapidly and assume a more serious character in
proportion as the vital principle has become disturbed by debilitating
passions, worry and care, but especially when disordered by inappropriate
medicinal treatment"
Hahnemann is talking about "the disease that was received by infection or
inheritance" So he is not using the term miasm exclusively with the meaning
of infectious disease, but also for inheritance, that is the constitutional
factor.
This is the definition by Hahnemann. This also illustrates why it isn't
correct to classify miasms only by the named infection. This leaves no space
for the more general (changed) constitutional reaction pattern which also
belongs to the picture of the complete miasm. In this way the Hahnemannian
miasms certainly are also general disease classifications.
Kind regards, Piet
-
Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: Adenoviridae & Poxviridae - threat of Reductionism
Apparently Hahnemann *did* use the term "miasm" to apply to infectious
diseases in general--I think David has talked about this in the past,
too? And he used the term "chronic miasm" to apply to our family
psora, sycosis, etc.
Over the years, tho, the term is seldom in any context other than
"chronic miasm", so to many people "miasm" has come to be synonymous
with "chronic miasm".
Ardavan, since it is, as you note, a term with various meanings,
mightn't it be better to use a less ambiguous label? Or did you have a
specific reason for wanting to use that term?
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
diseases in general--I think David has talked about this in the past,
too? And he used the term "chronic miasm" to apply to our family
psora, sycosis, etc.
Over the years, tho, the term is seldom in any context other than
"chronic miasm", so to many people "miasm" has come to be synonymous
with "chronic miasm".
Ardavan, since it is, as you note, a term with various meanings,
mightn't it be better to use a less ambiguous label? Or did you have a
specific reason for wanting to use that term?
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Ardavan Shahrdar
- Moderator
- Posts: 1277
- Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2000 10:00 pm
Re: Adenoviridae & Poxviridae - threat of Reductionism
Dear Piet,
You are talking about 'chronic' miasms. In most of the homeopathy schools 'miasm' is used as an equivalent to 'chronic miasm' as used by Hahnemann. In Hahnemann's writings 'miasm' is equal to 'infectious disease' and 'chronic miasm' is equal to 'chronic infectious disease'.
The agent itself is not important for me. The 'state' induced is important. The reason you can name the states with the miasms (and vice versa) is that you see a similar epidemic pattern.
And there is no problem with hereditory chronic miasms and constitutional effects of chronic miasm on generations. Infectious diseases are able to penetrate in the organism and affect the next generation.
Regards,
Ardavan
Piet Guijt wrote:
Ardavan wrote:
Dear Ardavan,
By taking your advice, it is no trouble to show you that your definition is
only half the truth.
I'm not denying the infection part, but a miasmatic disease is more.
Take a look at Organon § 78 Sixth Edition:
"The true natural chronic diseases are those that arise from a chronic
miasm, which when left to themselves, and unchecked by the employment of
those remedies that are specific for them, always go on increasing and
growing worse, notwithstanding the best mental and corporeal regimen, and
torment the patient to the end of his life with ever aggravated sufferings.
These, excepting those produced by medical malpractice (§ 74), are the most
numerous and greatest scourges of the human race; for the most robust
constitution, the best regulated mode of living and the most vigorous energy
of the vital force are insufficient for their eradication.1
1 During the flourishing years of youth and with the commencement of regular
menstruation joined to a mode of life beneficial to soul, heart and body,
they remain unrecognized for years. Those afflicted appeal in perfect health
to their relatives and acquaintances and the disease that was received by
infection or inheritance seems to have wholly disappeared. But in later
years, after adverse events and conditions of life, they are sure to appear
anew and develop the more rapidly and assume a more serious character in
proportion as the vital principle has become disturbed by debilitating
passions, worry and care, but especially when disordered by inappropriate
medicinal treatment"
Hahnemann is talking about "the disease that was received by infection or
inheritance" So he is not using the term miasm exclusively with the meaning
of infectious disease, but also for inheritance, that is the constitutional
factor.
This is the definition by Hahnemann. This also illustrates why it isn't
correct to classify miasms only by the named infection. This leaves no space
for the more general (changed) constitutional reaction pattern which also
belongs to the picture of the complete miasm. In this way the Hahnemannian
miasms certainly are also general disease classifications.
Kind regards, Piet
Visit Minutus Website at http://www.minutus.org
ATTENTION PLEASE:
The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.
****
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You are talking about 'chronic' miasms. In most of the homeopathy schools 'miasm' is used as an equivalent to 'chronic miasm' as used by Hahnemann. In Hahnemann's writings 'miasm' is equal to 'infectious disease' and 'chronic miasm' is equal to 'chronic infectious disease'.
The agent itself is not important for me. The 'state' induced is important. The reason you can name the states with the miasms (and vice versa) is that you see a similar epidemic pattern.
And there is no problem with hereditory chronic miasms and constitutional effects of chronic miasm on generations. Infectious diseases are able to penetrate in the organism and affect the next generation.
Regards,
Ardavan
Piet Guijt wrote:
Ardavan wrote:
Dear Ardavan,
By taking your advice, it is no trouble to show you that your definition is
only half the truth.
I'm not denying the infection part, but a miasmatic disease is more.
Take a look at Organon § 78 Sixth Edition:
"The true natural chronic diseases are those that arise from a chronic
miasm, which when left to themselves, and unchecked by the employment of
those remedies that are specific for them, always go on increasing and
growing worse, notwithstanding the best mental and corporeal regimen, and
torment the patient to the end of his life with ever aggravated sufferings.
These, excepting those produced by medical malpractice (§ 74), are the most
numerous and greatest scourges of the human race; for the most robust
constitution, the best regulated mode of living and the most vigorous energy
of the vital force are insufficient for their eradication.1
1 During the flourishing years of youth and with the commencement of regular
menstruation joined to a mode of life beneficial to soul, heart and body,
they remain unrecognized for years. Those afflicted appeal in perfect health
to their relatives and acquaintances and the disease that was received by
infection or inheritance seems to have wholly disappeared. But in later
years, after adverse events and conditions of life, they are sure to appear
anew and develop the more rapidly and assume a more serious character in
proportion as the vital principle has become disturbed by debilitating
passions, worry and care, but especially when disordered by inappropriate
medicinal treatment"
Hahnemann is talking about "the disease that was received by infection or
inheritance" So he is not using the term miasm exclusively with the meaning
of infectious disease, but also for inheritance, that is the constitutional
factor.
This is the definition by Hahnemann. This also illustrates why it isn't
correct to classify miasms only by the named infection. This leaves no space
for the more general (changed) constitutional reaction pattern which also
belongs to the picture of the complete miasm. In this way the Hahnemannian
miasms certainly are also general disease classifications.
Kind regards, Piet
Visit Minutus Website at http://www.minutus.org
ATTENTION PLEASE:
The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.
****
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Ardavan Shahrdar
- Moderator
- Posts: 1277
- Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2000 10:00 pm
Re: Adenoviridae & Poxviridae - threat of Reductionism
Dear Shannon,
I can use another term too. I just used the term in a Hahnemannian way.
Regards,
Ardavan
Robert & Shannon Nelson wrote:
Apparently Hahnemann *did* use the term "miasm" to apply to infectious
diseases in general--I think David has talked about this in the past,
too? And he used the term "chronic miasm" to apply to our family
psora, sycosis, etc.
Over the years, tho, the term is seldom in any context other than
"chronic miasm", so to many people "miasm" has come to be synonymous
with "chronic miasm".
Ardavan, since it is, as you note, a term with various meanings,
mightn't it be better to use a less ambiguous label? Or did you have a
specific reason for wanting to use that term?
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Visit Minutus Website at http://www.minutus.org
ATTENTION PLEASE:
The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.
****
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I can use another term too. I just used the term in a Hahnemannian way.
Regards,
Ardavan
Robert & Shannon Nelson wrote:
Apparently Hahnemann *did* use the term "miasm" to apply to infectious
diseases in general--I think David has talked about this in the past,
too? And he used the term "chronic miasm" to apply to our family
psora, sycosis, etc.
Over the years, tho, the term is seldom in any context other than
"chronic miasm", so to many people "miasm" has come to be synonymous
with "chronic miasm".
Ardavan, since it is, as you note, a term with various meanings,
mightn't it be better to use a less ambiguous label? Or did you have a
specific reason for wanting to use that term?
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Visit Minutus Website at http://www.minutus.org
ATTENTION PLEASE:
The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.
****
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Piet Guijt
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 10:00 pm
Re: Adenoviridae & Poxviridae - threat of Reductionism
Ardavan wrote:
Dear Ardavan,
Exactly, this is their effect, but this doesn't belong to the infection
state, but is does belong to the miasm.
So you can't say miasm and infection are equivalent. They are or could be
closely related, that's true', but are not the same.
The term "infections and their sequels" like David uses is much better, and
that's the Hahnemannian way.
This is not splitting hairs, because this has some implications, like I
explained before.
I rest my case,
Kind regards, Piet
Dear Ardavan,
Exactly, this is their effect, but this doesn't belong to the infection
state, but is does belong to the miasm.
So you can't say miasm and infection are equivalent. They are or could be
closely related, that's true', but are not the same.
The term "infections and their sequels" like David uses is much better, and
that's the Hahnemannian way.
This is not splitting hairs, because this has some implications, like I
explained before.
I rest my case,
Kind regards, Piet
-
Piet Guijt
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 10:00 pm
Re: Adenoviridae & Poxviridae - threat of Reductionism
Hello Dr. F. Shaddel,
Thanks for your insightful contribution to this list.
Yes, there is a paradox between Aphorism 13 and 40-42.
But isn't the approach we take depending of the case we meet?
In some cases the simillimum is obvious, but in other cases the choice is
not that evident.
When we subdivide the totality of symptoms concerning the present and the
past, this according to Hahnemann can be done safely by means of the chronic
miasms. By this method we prescribe for the present totality, but somehow we
neglect the true totality. This leads sometimes to remarkable opinions of
people that claim there can be two or more totalities at the same time.
I agree the underlying miasmatic susceptibility/ predisposition contributes
to a more general disease classification. For this reason some teacher say
there are only three (main) miasms, Psora, Sycosis, Syphilis. According to
them all other forms are mixtures of those three.
I hope you find the time to write that other article.
Kind regards, Piet
Thanks for your insightful contribution to this list.
Yes, there is a paradox between Aphorism 13 and 40-42.
But isn't the approach we take depending of the case we meet?
In some cases the simillimum is obvious, but in other cases the choice is
not that evident.
When we subdivide the totality of symptoms concerning the present and the
past, this according to Hahnemann can be done safely by means of the chronic
miasms. By this method we prescribe for the present totality, but somehow we
neglect the true totality. This leads sometimes to remarkable opinions of
people that claim there can be two or more totalities at the same time.
I agree the underlying miasmatic susceptibility/ predisposition contributes
to a more general disease classification. For this reason some teacher say
there are only three (main) miasms, Psora, Sycosis, Syphilis. According to
them all other forms are mixtures of those three.
I hope you find the time to write that other article.
Kind regards, Piet