At 09:42 AM 4/17/2006, you wrote:
Dear students and colleagues,
Ig-nor-ance (just not looking) does stop natural forces from operating
in the universe. That is the "ostrich method". I think the above says
something about the state of homoeopathic education. If teachers "just
don't get it" then what chance do students? Let's learn the basic ABCs well
and then D to Z will be easier. When speaking of treating people the
primary action is the power of the remedy that replaces the sensation of
the disease in the VF with a magnified image that simulates the original
complaint and brings what needs to be removed to the "apprehension" of the
vital force. The primary action is related to the medicinal powers of the
remedy. The second healing action is the power of the vital force that
seeks to remove the mistuning from without while reestablishing homeostasis
within with restored vitality. The primary action of the remedy >>>>>> and
<<<< secondary action of the vital force must be keep in balance during the
treatment. One witnesses the play of these complementary opposite forces in
patients during treatment if one is a well trained in observation.
Primary and secondary actions are VERY important to understand because
they have a direct bearing on posology and case management. The key to a
rapid, gentle permanent cure is a perfect balance of the primary action of
the remedy and the curative secondary action of the vital force. Too strong
of a primary action is what causes aggravations! A similar aggravation
means the right remedy but in too large a dose, too high a potency, or the
remedy was given when it was not needed. This is an important aspect of
posology and case management based on careful observation because it is
related to the methods of adjusting the dose, potency and repetition.
An overly strong and prolonged aggravation will burn up vitality to the
point that the vital force has little or no energy left for a healing
secondary action. Too weak of a primary action = little or no curative
secondary action of the VF. Too much primary action but not excessive =
aggravation followed by amelioration. An excessively strong a primary
action = weakened secondary action of the VF. A very aggressive dose,
potency and repetition = antagonistic secondary actions of the VF. A
perfect balance of primary and secondary actions = a rapid, gentle and
permanent cure with no other observable reaction only a rapid
transformation to the state of health with restored vitality.
We are always seeking to administer the remedy in such a fashion that
the primary action is just strong enough to replace the sensation of the
natural disease in the vital force. This, as Hahnemann said, "invokes and
augments" the energy of the Fundamental Esse, the source of the vital
principle which seeks to remove the derangement from without. This is the
curative secondary action. It is at the root of the observation that the
direction of cure takes place from within to without as the Esse and its
life force is an intrinsic power while the remedy actually comes from
without.
If the primary and secondary action are balanced the primary action is
not really noticeable and the secondary action produces rapid
transformations to the state of health with restore vitality. The VF will
only use as much energy as is necessary to bring the organism to the state
of health without any over reactions of the life force. The key to balanced
reaction is the proper adjustment of the dose, potency and repetition. This
is not just some theoretical idea of a few fundamentalist. It is a very
important observation that makes up part of the Medicine of Experience.
More below:
First of all one must form a hypothesis, i.e, there is such a thing as
the primary action of the remedy and a secondary action of the VF. Second
one must make a prediction such as too large a dose, too high a potency or
given the remedy to many times will cause too strong a primary action
causing an aggravation. Too little primary action will cause little or no
secondary action producing no changes. A perfect balance of primary and
secondary will cause a rapid transition to the state of health with
restored vitality. Then one has to test these theorems in the clinic and
assess the results.
Well, it is easy to see that if you give too large a dose of too high a
potency too many times the outcome is aggravation! It is easy to see that
not enough medical primary action will not cause a curative action because
not much happens. It is easy to see that a perfect balance of primary and
secondary produces the most rapid and gentle cure. This is empirical
science which is based on experience. If you watch closely with these
factors in mind you will see them come alive in your patients and it will
help in your case management.
One has to realize that their is a difference between the treatment of
ill and proving on the healthy. When speaking of the primary action of the
remedy and secondary action of the vital force we are taking about the
application of remedy during treatment. This is a "scientific" method of
observing as we watch the remedy actions and reactions on patients. In this
way, Homoeopathy is a medicine of experience.
1. There are a few remedies like Ignatia that have reciprocal actions
within themselves. Just look at Ignatia! It is full of contradictory
symptoms, quirks and changes. Is it any surprise? This is an exception not
the rule. This can make it a bit difficult to tell what is going on with
Ignatia when using the remedy. Hahnemann gives directions for these
exceptions.
2. The symptoms brought out during a proving are related to the primary
action of the medicinal substance. It is much like a controlled
aggravation. This demonstrates the medicinal symptoms that the remedy will
cure in a patient who suffers them naturally. Occasionally, through a
special relationship with the remedy a prover would feel usually well in
some regard. These were marked as secondary symptoms.
Sincerely, David Little
---------------
"It is the life-force which cures diseases because a dead man needs no more
medicines."
Samuel Hahnemann
Visit our website on Hahnemannian Homoeopathy and Cyberspace Homoeopathic
Academy at
http://www.simillimum.com
David Little © 2000
primary and secondary action - was 30C's- Dr. John
-
David Little
- Posts: 407
- Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2001 11:00 pm
-
David Little
- Posts: 407
- Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: primary and secondary action - was 30C's- Dr. John
At 12:27 AM 4/18/2006, you wrote:
Dear Paul,
First of all one has to know in which context one is using the terms
primary and secondary action. There is difference when speaking in terms of
how remedies cure in the ill and when speaking about provings on the
healthy. There is also the subject of the initial and reciprocal actions of
medicine substances that have alterations in their medicinal symptoms like
Ignatia.
You said "The curative action is in the primary action, not the
secondary action." If you are speaking of provings - Yes this is true. It
is the primary action of the remedy the provides the symptoms the remedy
will cure. If we are speaking in terms of how remedies cure patient who are
sick that is a different question.
I would say the cure takes place by the interplay of the primary action
and secondary action. It is not a matter of the primary action or secondary
action alone. The primary action of the remedy replaces the sensation of
the nature disease in the vital force with a transient medical disease. The
secondary curative action seeks to removes the medicinal disease and
restore homeostasis within. This interdependent dynamic action between the
remedy and the life force is responsible for cure. And yes, I read the
Organon.
In the Preface of the 6th Organon date 184- it says:
"Homeopathy is aware that a cure can only succeed through the
counter-action of the life force against the correctly taken medicine. The
stronger the life force that still prevails in the patient, the more
certain and faster the cure that takes place. "
Here Hahnemann points out the importance of the healing secondary
action and links the amount of vital force represent in the patient to
prognosis of cure. It is much harder to cure a person with an unstable
vital force and little vitality because this is the source of the energy of
the counter-action against the correct remedy. This shows that the reaction
of the life force is part of the healing process.
In the introduction of the Organon Hahnemann wrote that there are 7
stages of cure in the Organon beginning with ability of the human spirit to
observe Nature.
"1. True medical art is that cogitative pursuit which devolves upon the
higher human spirit, free deliberation, and the selecting intellect which
decides according to well-founded reasons. [Understanding comes first. DL]
2. It does so in order to differently tune the instinctual (intellect-
and awareness-lacking), automatic and energetic life force when the life
force has been mistuned, through disease, to abnormal activity. [dynamics
in the healing art. DL]
3. It differently tunes the life force by means of an affection similar
to that of the disease, engendered by a medicine that has been
homeopathically selected. [ a true remedy must have the ability to change
the tuning of the life force DL]
4. By means of this medicine, the life force is rendered medicinally sick
to such a degree (in fact to a somewhat higher degree) that the natural
affection can no longer work on the life force. [this is the cancelation
and replace of the natural disease by the primary action DL]
5. In this way, the life force becomes rid of the natural disease,
remaining occupied solely with the so similar, somewhat stronger medicinal
disease-affection against which the life force now directs its whole energy
and which it soon overcomes. [this curative secondary action noted in aph
64 part 2. DL)
6. The life force thereby becomes free and able again to return to the
norm of health and to its actual intended purpose: that of enlivening and
sustaining the healthy organism. [this is the full restoration of health]
7. It can do this without having suffered painful or debilitating attacks
by this transformation. [this process can be caring out without aggravation
or crisis when done properly DL]"
The 7 steps to cure definitely shows that homoeopathic healing is
accomplished by the interplay of the primary action of the remedy and the
secondary action of the vital force. This is the action-reaction model. You
can not forget the role of number 5 and 6 in the complete process. It does
not come about by either the primary or secondary action alone!
Although I think many are missing importance of the role of the
primary action in canceling the effects of nature disease the initial
action still invokes a very important counter action (aph. 64 part 2) that
"strives to assert its superiority by extinguishing the alternation from
without (by the medicine), in place of which it reinstates it norm
(after-action, curative action)." This movement toward the "normal" assists
in the process of cure by moving toward homeostasis. The life force and
vitality do play a role in healing.
So I agree that the primary action is of primary importance because it
cancels the lifelong disease and replaces it with a transitory medicinal
This is very important BUT the life force's effort to remove the medicinal
disease and establish homeostasis is also very important. In aphorism 68 it
says that "the life force has no more considerable counter action to take
up against this small artificial mistunement of its condition that the
counter action of elevating the current condition up tot he healthy station
(that is, the counter action suitable for complete recovery) to which in
the end, the life force requires little effort, after extinguishing the
pervious disease mistunement (see aphorism 64 point 2).
So the role of the secondary action is too remove the transient
medicinal disease using only as much energy as necessary to establish the
normal state. This movement toward balance, however, is an important part
of the curative process because as it seek to remove the medicinal disease
it re-establish normal homeostasis. Even in aphorism 29 where Hahnemann
doesn't mention the secondary action in the main aphorism the footnote
points out:
"The short duration of the action of the artificially morbific potencies
which we call medicines, make it possible for them (even though they are
presently stronger than the natural diseases) to be far more easily
overcome by the life force than are the weaker natural disease, which
solely on account of their longer, mostly lifelong effective duration
(psora, syphilis, sycosis) can never be vanquished and extinguished by the
life force alone."
This Aph. 29 once again that the role of the primary action is to
replace the derangement impinged on the life force by the natural disease
with a transient medical disease. One the more permanent chronic diseases
is replaced by the remedy disease which is "far more easily" overcome by
the life force. This move to remove the medicinal disease and re-establish
a normal condition with restored vitality is an important aspect of
attaining homeostasis and attaining the cure. Just on the experiential
level alone usually seeks an increase in vitality, sense of well being, and
homeostasis in degrees during the process of cure. These are all actions
Hahnemann attributed to the curative secondary action in the Organon.
So I believe it logical and in harmony with experience to say that
healing takes place through the *interplay of the primary and secondary
action* not exclusively by the initial or counter action alone.
Sincerely, David Little.
"It is the life-force which cures diseases because a dead man needs no more
medicines."
Samuel Hahnemann
Visit our website on Hahnemannian Homoeopathy and Cyberspace Homoeopathic
Academy at
http://www.simillimum.com
David Little © 2000
Dear Paul,
First of all one has to know in which context one is using the terms
primary and secondary action. There is difference when speaking in terms of
how remedies cure in the ill and when speaking about provings on the
healthy. There is also the subject of the initial and reciprocal actions of
medicine substances that have alterations in their medicinal symptoms like
Ignatia.
You said "The curative action is in the primary action, not the
secondary action." If you are speaking of provings - Yes this is true. It
is the primary action of the remedy the provides the symptoms the remedy
will cure. If we are speaking in terms of how remedies cure patient who are
sick that is a different question.
I would say the cure takes place by the interplay of the primary action
and secondary action. It is not a matter of the primary action or secondary
action alone. The primary action of the remedy replaces the sensation of
the nature disease in the vital force with a transient medical disease. The
secondary curative action seeks to removes the medicinal disease and
restore homeostasis within. This interdependent dynamic action between the
remedy and the life force is responsible for cure. And yes, I read the
Organon.
In the Preface of the 6th Organon date 184- it says:
"Homeopathy is aware that a cure can only succeed through the
counter-action of the life force against the correctly taken medicine. The
stronger the life force that still prevails in the patient, the more
certain and faster the cure that takes place. "
Here Hahnemann points out the importance of the healing secondary
action and links the amount of vital force represent in the patient to
prognosis of cure. It is much harder to cure a person with an unstable
vital force and little vitality because this is the source of the energy of
the counter-action against the correct remedy. This shows that the reaction
of the life force is part of the healing process.
In the introduction of the Organon Hahnemann wrote that there are 7
stages of cure in the Organon beginning with ability of the human spirit to
observe Nature.
"1. True medical art is that cogitative pursuit which devolves upon the
higher human spirit, free deliberation, and the selecting intellect which
decides according to well-founded reasons. [Understanding comes first. DL]
2. It does so in order to differently tune the instinctual (intellect-
and awareness-lacking), automatic and energetic life force when the life
force has been mistuned, through disease, to abnormal activity. [dynamics
in the healing art. DL]
3. It differently tunes the life force by means of an affection similar
to that of the disease, engendered by a medicine that has been
homeopathically selected. [ a true remedy must have the ability to change
the tuning of the life force DL]
4. By means of this medicine, the life force is rendered medicinally sick
to such a degree (in fact to a somewhat higher degree) that the natural
affection can no longer work on the life force. [this is the cancelation
and replace of the natural disease by the primary action DL]
5. In this way, the life force becomes rid of the natural disease,
remaining occupied solely with the so similar, somewhat stronger medicinal
disease-affection against which the life force now directs its whole energy
and which it soon overcomes. [this curative secondary action noted in aph
64 part 2. DL)
6. The life force thereby becomes free and able again to return to the
norm of health and to its actual intended purpose: that of enlivening and
sustaining the healthy organism. [this is the full restoration of health]
7. It can do this without having suffered painful or debilitating attacks
by this transformation. [this process can be caring out without aggravation
or crisis when done properly DL]"
The 7 steps to cure definitely shows that homoeopathic healing is
accomplished by the interplay of the primary action of the remedy and the
secondary action of the vital force. This is the action-reaction model. You
can not forget the role of number 5 and 6 in the complete process. It does
not come about by either the primary or secondary action alone!
Although I think many are missing importance of the role of the
primary action in canceling the effects of nature disease the initial
action still invokes a very important counter action (aph. 64 part 2) that
"strives to assert its superiority by extinguishing the alternation from
without (by the medicine), in place of which it reinstates it norm
(after-action, curative action)." This movement toward the "normal" assists
in the process of cure by moving toward homeostasis. The life force and
vitality do play a role in healing.
So I agree that the primary action is of primary importance because it
cancels the lifelong disease and replaces it with a transitory medicinal
This is very important BUT the life force's effort to remove the medicinal
disease and establish homeostasis is also very important. In aphorism 68 it
says that "the life force has no more considerable counter action to take
up against this small artificial mistunement of its condition that the
counter action of elevating the current condition up tot he healthy station
(that is, the counter action suitable for complete recovery) to which in
the end, the life force requires little effort, after extinguishing the
pervious disease mistunement (see aphorism 64 point 2).
So the role of the secondary action is too remove the transient
medicinal disease using only as much energy as necessary to establish the
normal state. This movement toward balance, however, is an important part
of the curative process because as it seek to remove the medicinal disease
it re-establish normal homeostasis. Even in aphorism 29 where Hahnemann
doesn't mention the secondary action in the main aphorism the footnote
points out:
"The short duration of the action of the artificially morbific potencies
which we call medicines, make it possible for them (even though they are
presently stronger than the natural diseases) to be far more easily
overcome by the life force than are the weaker natural disease, which
solely on account of their longer, mostly lifelong effective duration
(psora, syphilis, sycosis) can never be vanquished and extinguished by the
life force alone."
This Aph. 29 once again that the role of the primary action is to
replace the derangement impinged on the life force by the natural disease
with a transient medical disease. One the more permanent chronic diseases
is replaced by the remedy disease which is "far more easily" overcome by
the life force. This move to remove the medicinal disease and re-establish
a normal condition with restored vitality is an important aspect of
attaining homeostasis and attaining the cure. Just on the experiential
level alone usually seeks an increase in vitality, sense of well being, and
homeostasis in degrees during the process of cure. These are all actions
Hahnemann attributed to the curative secondary action in the Organon.
So I believe it logical and in harmony with experience to say that
healing takes place through the *interplay of the primary and secondary
action* not exclusively by the initial or counter action alone.
Sincerely, David Little.
"It is the life-force which cures diseases because a dead man needs no more
medicines."
Samuel Hahnemann
Visit our website on Hahnemannian Homoeopathy and Cyberspace Homoeopathic
Academy at
http://www.simillimum.com
David Little © 2000
-
arash jafaripoor
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 10:00 pm
Re: primary and secondary action - was 30C's- Dr. John
VISIT MY WEB ABOUT HOMEOPATHIC DRUGS ONLINE
David Little wrote:
At 09:42 AM 4/17/2006, you wrote:
Dear students and colleagues,
Ig-nor-ance (just not looking) does stop natural forces from operating
in the universe. That is the "ostrich method". I think the above says
something about the state of homoeopathic education. If teachers "just
don't get it" then what chance do students? Let's learn the basic ABCs well
and then D to Z will be easier. When speaking of treating people the
primary action is the power of the remedy that replaces the sensation of
the disease in the VF with a magnified image that simulates the original
complaint and brings what needs to be removed to the "apprehension" of the
vital force. The primary action is related to the medicinal powers of the
remedy. The second healing action is the power of the vital force that
seeks to remove the mistuning from without while reestablishing homeostasis
within with restored vitality. The primary action of the remedy >>>>>> and
<<<< secondary action of the vital force must be keep in balance during the
treatment. One witnesses the play of these complementary opposite forces in
patients during treatment if one is a well trained in observation.
Primary and secondary actions are VERY important to understand because
they have a direct bearing on posology and case management. The key to a
rapid, gentle permanent cure is a perfect balance of the primary action of
the remedy and the curative secondary action of the vital force. Too strong
of a primary action is what causes aggravations! A similar aggravation
means the right remedy but in too large a dose, too high a potency, or the
remedy was given when it was not needed. This is an important aspect of
posology and case management based on careful observation because it is
related to the methods of adjusting the dose, potency and repetition.
An overly strong and prolonged aggravation will burn up vitality to the
point that the vital force has little or no energy left for a healing
secondary action. Too weak of a primary action =little or no curative
secondary action of the VF. Too much primary action but not excessive =
aggravation followed by amelioration. An excessively strong a primary
action =weakened secondary action of the VF. A very aggressive dose,
potency and repetition =antagonistic secondary actions of the VF. A
perfect balance of primary and secondary actions =a rapid, gentle and
permanent cure with no other observable reaction only a rapid
transformation to the state of health with restored vitality.
We are always seeking to administer the remedy in such a fashion that
the primary action is just strong enough to replace the sensation of the
natural disease in the vital force. This, as Hahnemann said, "invokes and
augments" the energy of the Fundamental Esse, the source of the vital
principle which seeks to remove the derangement from without. This is the
curative secondary action. It is at the root of the observation that the
direction of cure takes place from within to without as the Esse and its
life force is an intrinsic power while the remedy actually comes from
without.
If the primary and secondary action are balanced the primary action is
not really noticeable and the secondary action produces rapid
transformations to the state of health with restore vitality. The VF will
only use as much energy as is necessary to bring the organism to the state
of health without any over reactions of the life force. The key to balanced
reaction is the proper adjustment of the dose, potency and repetition. This
is not just some theoretical idea of a few fundamentalist. It is a very
important observation that makes up part of the Medicine of Experience.
More below:
First of all one must form a hypothesis, i.e, there is such a thing as
the primary action of the remedy and a secondary action of the VF. Second
one must make a prediction such as too large a dose, too high a potency or
given the remedy to many times will cause too strong a primary action
causing an aggravation. Too little primary action will cause little or no
secondary action producing no changes. A perfect balance of primary and
secondary will cause a rapid transition to the state of health with
restored vitality. Then one has to test these theorems in the clinic and
assess the results.
Well, it is easy to see that if you give too large a dose of too high a
potency too many times the outcome is aggravation! It is easy to see that
not enough medical primary action will not cause a curative action because
not much happens. It is easy to see that a perfect balance of primary and
secondary produces the most rapid and gentle cure. This is empirical
science which is based on experience. If you watch closely with these
factors in mind you will see them come alive in your patients and it will
help in your case management.
One has to realize that their is a difference between the treatment of
ill and proving on the healthy. When speaking of the primary action of the
remedy and secondary action of the vital force we are taking about the
application of remedy during treatment. This is a "scientific" method of
observing as we watch the remedy actions and reactions on patients. In this
way, Homoeopathy is a medicine of experience.
1. There are a few remedies like Ignatia that have reciprocal actions
within themselves. Just look at Ignatia! It is full of contradictory
symptoms, quirks and changes. Is it any surprise? This is an exception not
the rule. This can make it a bit difficult to tell what is going on with
Ignatia when using the remedy. Hahnemann gives directions for these
exceptions.
2. The symptoms brought out during a proving are related to the primary
action of the medicinal substance. It is much like a controlled
aggravation. This demonstrates the medicinal symptoms that the remedy will
cure in a patient who suffers them naturally. Occasionally, through a
special relationship with the remedy a prover would feel usually well in
some regard. These were marked as secondary symptoms.
Sincerely, David Little
---------------
"It is the life-force which cures diseases because a dead man needs no more
medicines."
Samuel Hahnemann
Visit our website on Hahnemannian Homoeopathy and Cyberspace Homoeopathic
Academy at
http://www.simillimum.com
David Little © 2000
David Little wrote:
At 09:42 AM 4/17/2006, you wrote:
Dear students and colleagues,
Ig-nor-ance (just not looking) does stop natural forces from operating
in the universe. That is the "ostrich method". I think the above says
something about the state of homoeopathic education. If teachers "just
don't get it" then what chance do students? Let's learn the basic ABCs well
and then D to Z will be easier. When speaking of treating people the
primary action is the power of the remedy that replaces the sensation of
the disease in the VF with a magnified image that simulates the original
complaint and brings what needs to be removed to the "apprehension" of the
vital force. The primary action is related to the medicinal powers of the
remedy. The second healing action is the power of the vital force that
seeks to remove the mistuning from without while reestablishing homeostasis
within with restored vitality. The primary action of the remedy >>>>>> and
<<<< secondary action of the vital force must be keep in balance during the
treatment. One witnesses the play of these complementary opposite forces in
patients during treatment if one is a well trained in observation.
Primary and secondary actions are VERY important to understand because
they have a direct bearing on posology and case management. The key to a
rapid, gentle permanent cure is a perfect balance of the primary action of
the remedy and the curative secondary action of the vital force. Too strong
of a primary action is what causes aggravations! A similar aggravation
means the right remedy but in too large a dose, too high a potency, or the
remedy was given when it was not needed. This is an important aspect of
posology and case management based on careful observation because it is
related to the methods of adjusting the dose, potency and repetition.
An overly strong and prolonged aggravation will burn up vitality to the
point that the vital force has little or no energy left for a healing
secondary action. Too weak of a primary action =little or no curative
secondary action of the VF. Too much primary action but not excessive =
aggravation followed by amelioration. An excessively strong a primary
action =weakened secondary action of the VF. A very aggressive dose,
potency and repetition =antagonistic secondary actions of the VF. A
perfect balance of primary and secondary actions =a rapid, gentle and
permanent cure with no other observable reaction only a rapid
transformation to the state of health with restored vitality.
We are always seeking to administer the remedy in such a fashion that
the primary action is just strong enough to replace the sensation of the
natural disease in the vital force. This, as Hahnemann said, "invokes and
augments" the energy of the Fundamental Esse, the source of the vital
principle which seeks to remove the derangement from without. This is the
curative secondary action. It is at the root of the observation that the
direction of cure takes place from within to without as the Esse and its
life force is an intrinsic power while the remedy actually comes from
without.
If the primary and secondary action are balanced the primary action is
not really noticeable and the secondary action produces rapid
transformations to the state of health with restore vitality. The VF will
only use as much energy as is necessary to bring the organism to the state
of health without any over reactions of the life force. The key to balanced
reaction is the proper adjustment of the dose, potency and repetition. This
is not just some theoretical idea of a few fundamentalist. It is a very
important observation that makes up part of the Medicine of Experience.
More below:
First of all one must form a hypothesis, i.e, there is such a thing as
the primary action of the remedy and a secondary action of the VF. Second
one must make a prediction such as too large a dose, too high a potency or
given the remedy to many times will cause too strong a primary action
causing an aggravation. Too little primary action will cause little or no
secondary action producing no changes. A perfect balance of primary and
secondary will cause a rapid transition to the state of health with
restored vitality. Then one has to test these theorems in the clinic and
assess the results.
Well, it is easy to see that if you give too large a dose of too high a
potency too many times the outcome is aggravation! It is easy to see that
not enough medical primary action will not cause a curative action because
not much happens. It is easy to see that a perfect balance of primary and
secondary produces the most rapid and gentle cure. This is empirical
science which is based on experience. If you watch closely with these
factors in mind you will see them come alive in your patients and it will
help in your case management.
One has to realize that their is a difference between the treatment of
ill and proving on the healthy. When speaking of the primary action of the
remedy and secondary action of the vital force we are taking about the
application of remedy during treatment. This is a "scientific" method of
observing as we watch the remedy actions and reactions on patients. In this
way, Homoeopathy is a medicine of experience.
1. There are a few remedies like Ignatia that have reciprocal actions
within themselves. Just look at Ignatia! It is full of contradictory
symptoms, quirks and changes. Is it any surprise? This is an exception not
the rule. This can make it a bit difficult to tell what is going on with
Ignatia when using the remedy. Hahnemann gives directions for these
exceptions.
2. The symptoms brought out during a proving are related to the primary
action of the medicinal substance. It is much like a controlled
aggravation. This demonstrates the medicinal symptoms that the remedy will
cure in a patient who suffers them naturally. Occasionally, through a
special relationship with the remedy a prover would feel usually well in
some regard. These were marked as secondary symptoms.
Sincerely, David Little
---------------
"It is the life-force which cures diseases because a dead man needs no more
medicines."
Samuel Hahnemann
Visit our website on Hahnemannian Homoeopathy and Cyberspace Homoeopathic
Academy at
http://www.simillimum.com
David Little © 2000
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Kathryn Ellen Madono
- Posts: 60
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: primary and secondary action - was 30C's- Dr. John
Dear David,
Are remedy descriptions that are full of clinical sx (eg. Mangialavori and some early 20th century authors too) describing secondary reactions to the vital force or are the secondary much more ideosyncratic much more closely related to peculiarities of the px? Their claim to validity is they find the same clinical sx in many patients or in Mangialavori's case, a single remedy cure acute and chronic problems over something like 5 years.
Blessings,
Ellen
Are remedy descriptions that are full of clinical sx (eg. Mangialavori and some early 20th century authors too) describing secondary reactions to the vital force or are the secondary much more ideosyncratic much more closely related to peculiarities of the px? Their claim to validity is they find the same clinical sx in many patients or in Mangialavori's case, a single remedy cure acute and chronic problems over something like 5 years.
Blessings,
Ellen
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Paul Booyse
- Posts: 310
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: primary and secondary action - was 30C's- Dr. John
Hello David,
the disease in the VF with a magnified image that simulates the original
complaint and brings what needs to be removed to the "apprehension" of the
The problem I have with that concept is that the vital force is always
trying to remove the complaint.and that by magnifying the complaint, i.e
increasing the disturbance, the vital force will become more effective. My
question then is, why in illness, when the symptoms get worse (i.e.
magnification of complaint) does the patient get sicker and go downhill.
Surely the more sick they get the stronger the curative effect from the
vital force. Yet this does not tie in with reality. In fact the patient
suffers from the actions of the vital force and may even die from the
effects of the vital force. This argument could be applied to both acute
and chronic disease.
remedy. The second healing action is the power of the vital force that
seeks to remove the mistuning from without
Yes, the vital force acts against the mistuning from without, not against
the inner disease state. At this stage the mistuning from without is the
small difference between the original dose and the inner disease, and is
also of a transient nature, as it is the minimal dose both in size and
repetition. The pull from the indwelling spirit is now the "stronger
dissimilar state" and will win the control of the vital force and the
correct messages will get to the vital force and homestasis will follow.
the primary effects of the remnant medicinal state will not be able to last
as it will lose the grip it had on the vital force, and cannot manifest as
such. (Hence your often quoted "you cannot prove medicines on a corpse")
they have a direct bearing on posology and case management. The key to a
rapid, gentle permanent cure is a perfect balance of the primary action of
the remedy and the curative secondary action of the vital force. Too strong
of a primary action is what causes aggravations! A
No problem with this. The remedy works on the vital force causing the
simillimum disruption. The aim in homeopathy is to create a state as
quickly as possible where the vital force is able to fulfill aph.9, when it
becomes controlled by the "indwelling reason gifted mind to enable the
fulment of the higher purpose of our existence (our mission/s in life). "
An excessive aggravation serves no purpose other than to further stress the
vital force. There is no benefit from excessive aggravation. We are not
"detoxing" the body. The vital force is not able through stronger reaction
to overcome anything, it merely becomes used up. The classic example of
arsenicum in high potency which cures (primary action) but kills (through
too much derangement of vital force, both in primary action and in reactive
secondary reaction) You have mentioned this later on.
As you mmentioned the idea of primary and secondary actions is not just a
philosophical discussion. It has bearing on posology. What I have seen is
that pundits of the belief that the secondary effects cure, tend to think
that therefore any aggravation is an increase in these effects and must be
good, as the vital force can "do no harm". It's "bringing out the disease"
or detoxing. I think we are both in agreement that that is detrimental.
As for Hering's law, I think of it as follows. the indwelling, reason
gifted mind has purpose and from this the vital force receives the blueprint
of what must be achieved for optimal health (homeostasis). If the mind
perceives that it is cold, then the vital force follows and adjusts the
circulation. It does what it is instructed. In disease, delusions,
anxieties etc. give misinformation to the vital force. It acts
inappropriately to reality, but believes it is just doing it's job. It is
unware of the reality. The vital force is not sick. the patient perceives
it is cold, but it is a sunny day. The vital force acts by adjusting
circulation and so on.
It is the indwelling spirit/mind that controls the body and the loss of this
control goes from without to within. As hahnemann said, the insane were the
most ill. When healing occurs , the control is again established from
within to without, hence inner healing takes place while outer areas, still
not properly under control, manifest the signs of disease. Anyway, thats
the way I see it. the mind regains the vital structures first and then the
outer.
Best regards,
Paul Booyse
the disease in the VF with a magnified image that simulates the original
complaint and brings what needs to be removed to the "apprehension" of the
The problem I have with that concept is that the vital force is always
trying to remove the complaint.and that by magnifying the complaint, i.e
increasing the disturbance, the vital force will become more effective. My
question then is, why in illness, when the symptoms get worse (i.e.
magnification of complaint) does the patient get sicker and go downhill.
Surely the more sick they get the stronger the curative effect from the
vital force. Yet this does not tie in with reality. In fact the patient
suffers from the actions of the vital force and may even die from the
effects of the vital force. This argument could be applied to both acute
and chronic disease.
remedy. The second healing action is the power of the vital force that
seeks to remove the mistuning from without
Yes, the vital force acts against the mistuning from without, not against
the inner disease state. At this stage the mistuning from without is the
small difference between the original dose and the inner disease, and is
also of a transient nature, as it is the minimal dose both in size and
repetition. The pull from the indwelling spirit is now the "stronger
dissimilar state" and will win the control of the vital force and the
correct messages will get to the vital force and homestasis will follow.
the primary effects of the remnant medicinal state will not be able to last
as it will lose the grip it had on the vital force, and cannot manifest as
such. (Hence your often quoted "you cannot prove medicines on a corpse")
they have a direct bearing on posology and case management. The key to a
rapid, gentle permanent cure is a perfect balance of the primary action of
the remedy and the curative secondary action of the vital force. Too strong
of a primary action is what causes aggravations! A
No problem with this. The remedy works on the vital force causing the
simillimum disruption. The aim in homeopathy is to create a state as
quickly as possible where the vital force is able to fulfill aph.9, when it
becomes controlled by the "indwelling reason gifted mind to enable the
fulment of the higher purpose of our existence (our mission/s in life). "
An excessive aggravation serves no purpose other than to further stress the
vital force. There is no benefit from excessive aggravation. We are not
"detoxing" the body. The vital force is not able through stronger reaction
to overcome anything, it merely becomes used up. The classic example of
arsenicum in high potency which cures (primary action) but kills (through
too much derangement of vital force, both in primary action and in reactive
secondary reaction) You have mentioned this later on.
As you mmentioned the idea of primary and secondary actions is not just a
philosophical discussion. It has bearing on posology. What I have seen is
that pundits of the belief that the secondary effects cure, tend to think
that therefore any aggravation is an increase in these effects and must be
good, as the vital force can "do no harm". It's "bringing out the disease"
or detoxing. I think we are both in agreement that that is detrimental.
As for Hering's law, I think of it as follows. the indwelling, reason
gifted mind has purpose and from this the vital force receives the blueprint
of what must be achieved for optimal health (homeostasis). If the mind
perceives that it is cold, then the vital force follows and adjusts the
circulation. It does what it is instructed. In disease, delusions,
anxieties etc. give misinformation to the vital force. It acts
inappropriately to reality, but believes it is just doing it's job. It is
unware of the reality. The vital force is not sick. the patient perceives
it is cold, but it is a sunny day. The vital force acts by adjusting
circulation and so on.
It is the indwelling spirit/mind that controls the body and the loss of this
control goes from without to within. As hahnemann said, the insane were the
most ill. When healing occurs , the control is again established from
within to without, hence inner healing takes place while outer areas, still
not properly under control, manifest the signs of disease. Anyway, thats
the way I see it. the mind regains the vital structures first and then the
outer.
Best regards,
Paul Booyse
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Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: primary and secondary action - was 30C's- Dr. John
Hi Paul,
Just a quick thought...
David wrote:
Paul replied:
I think it's important to realize that we're simply trying to give
explanation to what's been *observed*--that in fact a disease *is*
cured by administration of a (sufficiently small and/or altered) dose
of something that could cause the same symptoms. So whatever
explanation we give is sort of just an analogy, or a theory.
But one could say that, by echoing the pattern of disease (but in an
altered form) the remedy "shows" the VF the pattern of its disorder,
thus spurring it to fix it. Similarly to the way that some people have
been cured of "temper tantrums" by having a *recording* of themselves
acting out--and they are shocked, and resolve to reform. (My brother
was one of those, so I know it can work!)
Or a self-centered person who watches a film about an even *more*
self-centered person (similar enough for them to identify with, yet
different enough that they aren't completely pulled into it),
recognizes the pattern and its drawbacks, and resolves to reform. It
can't be just "more of the same"--has to be similar enough, yet
different enough...
Best wishes,
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Just a quick thought...
David wrote:
Paul replied:
I think it's important to realize that we're simply trying to give
explanation to what's been *observed*--that in fact a disease *is*
cured by administration of a (sufficiently small and/or altered) dose
of something that could cause the same symptoms. So whatever
explanation we give is sort of just an analogy, or a theory.
But one could say that, by echoing the pattern of disease (but in an
altered form) the remedy "shows" the VF the pattern of its disorder,
thus spurring it to fix it. Similarly to the way that some people have
been cured of "temper tantrums" by having a *recording* of themselves
acting out--and they are shocked, and resolve to reform. (My brother
was one of those, so I know it can work!)
Or a self-centered person who watches a film about an even *more*
self-centered person (similar enough for them to identify with, yet
different enough that they aren't completely pulled into it),
recognizes the pattern and its drawbacks, and resolves to reform. It
can't be just "more of the same"--has to be similar enough, yet
different enough...
Best wishes,
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Paul Booyse
- Posts: 310
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: primary and secondary action - was 30C's- Dr. John
Hello Shannon,
explanation to what's been *observed*--that in fact a disease *is*
cured by administration of a (sufficiently small and/or altered) dose
of something that could cause the same symptoms. So whatever
explanation we give is sort of just an analogy, or a theory.
It is theory, but the question is whether it is based on speculation or
observation. I find it hard to argue that the vital force is able to
overcome disease. It is able to overcome stressors within in normal limits.
But in disease, the vital force response is often inappropriate. This is
because it trying to form "homeostasis" based on misinformation. (Delusion,
fears etc.) and the more it does that the more the human health suffers.
It will never be able to restore the correct and appropriate function,
because it is just doing what it is lead to beleive is appropriate. No
amount of palpitation will cure a fibrillation. It is only by removing the
deranging cause, the inner disease state, that the vital force can switch to
the correct "homeostasis" which is under the direction of the healthy human
spirit.
On this basis, the theory becomes something of practical value, allowing us
to answer questions such as "how long does a dose last?" "Do I need to
re-dose my patient etc. It is through an understanding of the mechanisms
that correct practical application can occur. Conventional mmedicine has
its' pharmacological theory, which has served it well. We need to look at
homeopathic theory as well. Unfortunately the concepts put forward in most
schools as per teachings from Vithoulkas etc. are in conflict with the
Organon. Okay, who is right? This is where an analysis of the postulations
leads me to Hahnemann's view. His theory was based on much observation.
Vithoulkas and such theories are based on exactly the same vitalist theory
which Hahnemann rejected.
altered form) the remedy "shows" the VF the pattern of its disorder,
thus spurring it to fix it. Similarly to the way that some people have
been cured of "temper tantrums" by having a *recording* of themselves
acting out--and they are shocked, and resolve to reform. (My brother
was one of those, so I know it can work!)
My own theory is that the remedy "shows" the disorder to the INDWELLING
REASON GIFTED MIND / RATIONAL SPIRIT, as the remedy carriies with it the
archetype of that state and so this helps the reason gifted mind to see the
delusion or anxiety. The inner disease state is actually the healthy
spirit/mind gone wrong. That is where the interplay happens. The vital
force just follows the master.
Regards,
Paul Booyse
explanation to what's been *observed*--that in fact a disease *is*
cured by administration of a (sufficiently small and/or altered) dose
of something that could cause the same symptoms. So whatever
explanation we give is sort of just an analogy, or a theory.
It is theory, but the question is whether it is based on speculation or
observation. I find it hard to argue that the vital force is able to
overcome disease. It is able to overcome stressors within in normal limits.
But in disease, the vital force response is often inappropriate. This is
because it trying to form "homeostasis" based on misinformation. (Delusion,
fears etc.) and the more it does that the more the human health suffers.
It will never be able to restore the correct and appropriate function,
because it is just doing what it is lead to beleive is appropriate. No
amount of palpitation will cure a fibrillation. It is only by removing the
deranging cause, the inner disease state, that the vital force can switch to
the correct "homeostasis" which is under the direction of the healthy human
spirit.
On this basis, the theory becomes something of practical value, allowing us
to answer questions such as "how long does a dose last?" "Do I need to
re-dose my patient etc. It is through an understanding of the mechanisms
that correct practical application can occur. Conventional mmedicine has
its' pharmacological theory, which has served it well. We need to look at
homeopathic theory as well. Unfortunately the concepts put forward in most
schools as per teachings from Vithoulkas etc. are in conflict with the
Organon. Okay, who is right? This is where an analysis of the postulations
leads me to Hahnemann's view. His theory was based on much observation.
Vithoulkas and such theories are based on exactly the same vitalist theory
which Hahnemann rejected.
altered form) the remedy "shows" the VF the pattern of its disorder,
thus spurring it to fix it. Similarly to the way that some people have
been cured of "temper tantrums" by having a *recording* of themselves
acting out--and they are shocked, and resolve to reform. (My brother
was one of those, so I know it can work!)
My own theory is that the remedy "shows" the disorder to the INDWELLING
REASON GIFTED MIND / RATIONAL SPIRIT, as the remedy carriies with it the
archetype of that state and so this helps the reason gifted mind to see the
delusion or anxiety. The inner disease state is actually the healthy
spirit/mind gone wrong. That is where the interplay happens. The vital
force just follows the master.
Regards,
Paul Booyse
-
Willy van Dregt
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:00 pm
Re: primary and secondary action - was 30C's- Dr. John
Is it possible to clarify through a practical example?
Onions! In crude form (while chopping them) usually first there is stinging and burning in the eyes, then tears and watery nasal discharge. I would think the stinging and burning is the primary action of the onion, which is actually drying up membranes, and the vital force then produces secondary reaction of drenching affected membranes to counter-act the drying.
But from what has been said here, in proving, both the stinging and burning, and the tears and watery nasal discharge, would count as the primary action of the remedy.
And in healing someone with a cold, the vital force's reaction to the remedy would be finding a balance between the drying up and the drenching.
If this is so, then the remedy has the potential to present both its' own primary reaction (burning and stinging) and the VF's response of tearing and watery discharge.
I'm not sure, but I think I'm lost.
Anyone got a map?
Vera
David Little wrote:
At 12:27 AM 4/18/2006, you wrote:
Dear Paul,
First of all one has to know in which context one is using the terms
primary and secondary action. There is difference when speaking in terms of
how remedies cure in the ill and when speaking about provings on the
healthy. (snip)
So I believe it logical and in harmony with experience to say that
healing takes place through the *interplay of the primary and secondary
action* not exclusively by the initial or counter action alone.
Sincerely, David Little.
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Onions! In crude form (while chopping them) usually first there is stinging and burning in the eyes, then tears and watery nasal discharge. I would think the stinging and burning is the primary action of the onion, which is actually drying up membranes, and the vital force then produces secondary reaction of drenching affected membranes to counter-act the drying.
But from what has been said here, in proving, both the stinging and burning, and the tears and watery nasal discharge, would count as the primary action of the remedy.
And in healing someone with a cold, the vital force's reaction to the remedy would be finding a balance between the drying up and the drenching.
If this is so, then the remedy has the potential to present both its' own primary reaction (burning and stinging) and the VF's response of tearing and watery discharge.
I'm not sure, but I think I'm lost.
Anyone got a map?
Vera
David Little wrote:
At 12:27 AM 4/18/2006, you wrote:
Dear Paul,
First of all one has to know in which context one is using the terms
primary and secondary action. There is difference when speaking in terms of
how remedies cure in the ill and when speaking about provings on the
healthy. (snip)
So I believe it logical and in harmony with experience to say that
healing takes place through the *interplay of the primary and secondary
action* not exclusively by the initial or counter action alone.
Sincerely, David Little.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]