30C's

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Dr. John,
Well, the action of a potentized remedy is quite a different thing from
the action of a chemical, or even from the action of something like
radiotherapy or radiation. Even tho the active "substance" of these
last two is non-material (as is the active "substance" in a remedy),
still it is acting on the gross, physical level of the body; it is
acting on the *material* of the body, and acting in a material way.

The action of a potentized remedy is different. Remedies act by
*stimulating the body's forces* to act, and they do so not by virtue of
their physical properties (which are only the physical properties of
sugar or etc.), but instead by virtue of their energetic effect *on the
life force* of the patient. Would you agree with this distinction?

The physical and chemical properties of drugs, radiation, radiowaves,
etc., are easy enough to quantify and regulate, and their effects on
physical and chemical systems and substances are reasonably constant
and predictable.

The physical and chemical effects of a remedy, OTOH, depend less upon
its own physical/chemical nature, and more upon its interaction with
the patient's "life force" (remedies have no effect upon corpses or
inanimate objects!). So the effect depends on a variety of factors,
including the state of the life force as well as other factors which
affect it, as well as the interplay between these and the energy of the
remedy--a vastly more complicated situation!

All of which is to my mind less important than the fact that: the
action of the remedy *does* vary as described; so spinning out theories
about "why" is pretty much just an intellectual exercise... Does that
make sense to you?
Best wishes,
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Dr. John F.]

Dear Soroush
Of course there are some minor differences among different patients but they are not as much as Homeopathic remedies. Homeopathy claims a remedy acts few minutes in one patient and maybe several years in another one. How you explain this?
Regards
John

Finrod wrote:
Dear John

And again the effect of Radiotherapy is through its physical energy to
disrupt cells. It is not like the subtle 'energy' of homoeopathic/potentised
substances.

Please advise how the duration of a course of Radiotherapy in any given
patient may be gauged?

Although we may have norms, is the duration of the totality of the effects
(burns, hair loss, production of cancerous cells etc) the same in all?

Rgds
Soroush

[Dr. John F.]

Dear Sita, OK I accept the difference in the nature but why this difference causes such diffrerence in the length of action? More than this how such delicate remedies can works several weeks or months? The rough medical drugs usually work less than 24 hours.
Regards
John

"homeofan@yahoo.ca ." wrote:
coorection, Raditherapy is also energy but with very rough nature. It is different with delicate effect of Homeopathic remedies.
Sita

"Dr. John F." wrote:
Hi, I do not agree with this reason. Radiotherapy in conventional medicine is also by energy but you can tell the exact duration of its action. And idea?
Regards
Dr. John

Robert & Shannon Nelson wrote:
Partly because the length of action of a remedy is energetic, not
chemical. Its effect therefore depends upon its interaction with the
energy of the patient (which I guess is far more variable than the
*chemistry* of different patients?); the energy devoted to the
"disease" (local or constitutional ailment?); the amount of the energy
that is able to respond to the remedy (i.e. how well it suits the
disease); and circumstances that affect the person's energy
("antidoting" factors and others). And oh yes, also depends on the
potency given!

Shannon
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[H.T. Cotter]

Hi John,

Pardon me for butting into what appears to be a spirited dialogue between you and Soroush, but I find the temptation to share or ponder my own clinical experience in this matter. Perhaps instead of the ubiquitous "energy" title; if we regard the input from a homeopathic remedy as information it might make more sense. Information theory suggests a factor that either speeds or brakes the action of homeopathic remedies and explains why in about 5% of the population homeopathy works very poorly, if at all. If anyone doubts the health response to information, note that about 70% of our hospital admissions are from iatrogenic (doctor induced) illnesses. Merely telling a patient they are sick makes them so.

As to the subtlety of the input, consider that when someone sits down at a restaurant to order a meal, they are give a piece of paper stained with toxic chemicals and by looking at this piece of paper they do a full body simulation of the prospective foods that the patterns of the ink names. This capacity to filter information from noise is an esiophysical capability. Esionic capabilities and the reaction to information varies widely within any specie. Even identical twins frequently differ greatly in their esionic capabilities. Remember the expression that he who laughs last is the slowest to get the joke? This is a complex measure of their ability to extract the information from the noise, make the connection of the various interpretations of the information, and view it in a context to trigger a reaction. In the case given, to trigger a humorous reaction.

When I give a patient Arnica for trauma, or Causticum for a burn, or Aurum metallicum for depression, the remedy selection comes first from my own esionic capabilities in analyzing both the salient capabilities of the remedy and the salient characteristics of the patient needing the remedy. Over the decades of practice, my reactions are frequently not sequential or consciously logical. And the only reason that I would need to be sequentially consciously logical would be to satisfy the curiosity or skeptical condemnation of someone who has somehow made himself emotionally involved as to whether or how the process works. The important part of my reaction to my esionic gatherings and subsequent action (remedy selection and administration) resides only in the positive effects on the patient.

Their benefit or lack thereof to my ministration of their remedy is largely a function of their subconscious esionic capabilities and its effect on their immune and other systemic responses. I give most of my remedies as liquids which if chemically analyzed would appear to be a weak vodka highball of ethanol and water. Sometimes I'll use sugar globules as the vehicle. Either way, the patient's common senses are getting what would appear to be identical input (weak cocktail or a little sugar). However, the reaction depends upon the solvent carrying the proper solute, no matter how extremely it has been diluted. The depression patient wouldn't do well with Arnica, nor the burn victim with Aurum metallicum as examples. Thus, I submit to you that the shadows of the long since diluted out solute have been written in a form of information on the solvent that the body can read and the language in which it reads it is bio-linguistic. This language of life provides the means to allow the esionic acceptance and reaction to homeopathic remedies.

If you look at the wide variety of lives led by people who have graduated from the same public school systems, then you get an idea of the variations in response to similar information delivered to diverse personalities. In my opinion and my experience of nearly 3 decades of clinical practice, the subtle bodily responses to information are just as varied. You questioned why some remedies work in minutes and others in years -- Some patients do respond in minutes or less. Many patients have told me they experienced relief when the remedy hit their tongue. I have never had a patient call up and say, "Hey doc, that remedy you gave me in '98 just kicked in." However, I've seen patients who years later have told me that their lives changed from a single remedy or course of remedies they received years earlier.

Sorry to be so long winded but your point and question are significant and deserved, in my opinion, a stated course offering understanding. Let's see how your reaction and that of others who might be interested in this dialogue does with this rather tangled web of noise.

Best wishes,

Tom
(Dr. H. Thomas Cotter)

[Simon King LCPH MARH]

Also sorry to butt in, but the answer seems so simple: HOMEOPATHY!

That is to say the duration of action depends entirely on the
homeopathicity of the prescription.
i.e. the duration of action rests solely on the nature of the
condition for which it was prescribed.

Therefore for a chronic condition, an accurately prescribed remedy,
both in terms of remedy choice and posology will last the duration of
the healing process and thereafter.

The same remedy accurately prescribed for an acute condition will
similarily have a corresponding duration of action
Simon King,
http://www.Homeopathy-Help.net

[Shannon Nelson]

On Apr 11, 2006, at 12:28 PM, Dr. John F. wrote:
Hi John,
Did you see my possibly too-long answer to that question?
I would be interested in hearing your thoughts about mine.
Best,
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Tom,
I *like* that analogy! And playing off of that, one could say that
"how long does a remedy act" is like asking, "how long does a lesson
act?" Depends on what less, to which person, for what reason,
delivered how strongly, what happened afterwards...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Dr. John,
Eh, good point!
And yet pain killers and other drug treatments do exert their action
through chemical actions, which are to a large extent (?) known
("blocking" pain receptors; or changing permeability to this or that;
or binding this or that...). Can remedy effects be explained
similarly?
But, in my understanding, they do so thru the agency of their action on
the chemistry of the body. But the chemical action of a remedy is only
that of a small-to-miniscule amount of sugar, which is why we call them
"energetic" remedies. Doesn't that seem different to you?
Yes... But remedies and drugs (or also potentized versus unpotentized,
or low potency versus highly potentized) do have different sorts of
effects. I have yet to hear of any drug or nutrient that can in single
or infrequent doses achieve the sort of basic re-ordering that a
well-chosen "constitutional" remedy can. Would you agree?
Well, which question? The question of why remedy effects are more
variable than drug and radiation effects, or another?

To me it seems pretty plain--action of a remedy is at a "subtler"
level--less dependent on those types of chemical and physical
properties that are fairly constant among different people, and more
dependent on a type of energetic (perhaps there is a better word)
functioning that quite varied among different people.

What would you propose the answer might be?
Best,
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Dr. John and Tom,
NOT only the differences between patients!!!!!! But also, and equally
importantly, differences between **the remedy (some *tend* to act
longer and quicker than others); and/or **the energetic function within
the patient that the remedy addresses (acute and/or recent disorders
tend to respond more quickly, while chronic and/or long-standing ones
tend to respond more slowly); and/or **how closely and in what way the
remedy does in fact correspond with the energetic function within the
patient (the particulars of this last are quite varied, and I would
rather not try to elaborate, just because I need to get back to the
garden! But there are fairly definable factors that might *tend*
to make us expect a quicker or slower or longer-lasting or brief
response from the remedy; but all of these would be "on average", not
absolutely defined for each individual case.)

The variability in action is NOT only because of differences among
patients; there are at least a handful of factors that come into play.
Why?
Conventional medicines act through their physical and chemical effects
on the body, and only thereby affect the vital force; with remedies the
situation is (or so I gather) reversed, such that the remedy acts
directly upon the "vital force" of the body, and thereby affects the
physical and chemical situation of the body.
Which part do you find unbelievable--the idea that the nature of a
homeopathic remedy is different from a drug, or the idea that the two
act differently, or ?? What is it that you are finding unbelievable?

Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Dr. John F.]

Dear Shanon
Thanks for comprehensive explanation. I accept all of these are mental excersise and do not change any thing in practising Homeopathy. But finding the answers will make us well equiped against simillar questions from the side of other professionals.
Regarding the distinction between Homeopathic remedies and other kinds of drug, with ultimate respect, I do not accept it. Entire treatments are effective only on vital organisems. Can you suppose effect and action of a pain killer upon a dead body? Therefore disease, health and treatment are all about vitality and all the drugs act on vital force. It is us that subdevide an organisem to material and immaterial parts for better understanding otherwise there is a unity in any organisem. I belive it can not be the answer of my question. Am I right?
Regards
Dr. John

Robert & Shannon Nelson wrote:
Hi Dr. John,
Well, the action of a potentized remedy is quite a different thing from
the action of a chemical, or even from the action of something like
radiotherapy or radiation. Even tho the active "substance" of these
last two is non-material (as is the active "substance" in a remedy),
still it is acting on the gross, physical level of the body; it is
acting on the *material* of the body, and acting in a material way.

The action of a potentized remedy is different. Remedies act by
*stimulating the body's forces* to act, and they do so not by virtue of
their physical properties (which are only the physical properties of
sugar or etc.), but instead by virtue of their energetic effect *on the
life force* of the patient. Would you agree with this distinction?

The physical and chemical properties of drugs, radiation, radiowaves,
etc., are easy enough to quantify and regulate, and their effects on
physical and chemical systems and substances are reasonably constant
and predictable.

The physical and chemical effects of a remedy, OTOH, depend less upon
its own physical/chemical nature, and more upon its interaction with
the patient's "life force" (remedies have no effect upon corpses or
inanimate objects!). So the effect depends on a variety of factors,
including the state of the life force as well as other factors which
affect it, as well as the interplay between these and the energy of the
remedy--a vastly more complicated situation!

All of which is to my mind less important than the fact that: the
action of the remedy *does* vary as described; so spinning out theories
about "why" is pretty much just an intellectual exercise... Does that
make sense to you?
Best wishes,
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ATTENTION PLEASE:

The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.

****
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