more water dose questions

[muthu kumar]

You are doing a great disservice to Hahnemann if you give up so
quickly on the final word of the master by sliding back to the 4th
edition...Homeopathy should progress not regress etc. etc.

This is another one of my I TOLD YOU SOs - potency bug biteth hard
without any teeth- mileage varies by practitioner and everyone has
good results... whether it is "wait and watch" old timers,
or "moisten and hasten" quick timers -

I agree with Joy in this - it depends more on the disease process
and the need of the vital force more than anything else... we are
only aiding the vital force - it does the cure at its pace... get
the remedy right - that is paramount -

of course there will be more proclamations, reading from the
originals and incriminations -

(Oh my precious let us "wait and watch" these Hobbits- what fun it
is ...)
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Robert & Shannon Nelson
wrote:
the
the
potency and
nature
encouraged,
obviously by
potencies.
with
be
seems to
high, dry
depends on
if it
potency
oft
case can
is fine.
LM1 to
share!
that

[Shannon Nelson]

Ah, finally *someone* else is saying *something*, at least! )
Okay--what I have been fishing for, is specific advice--*how* I can use
water dosing--in this specific situation--to improve upon 4th ed
process? Based on what I've written can you make specific suggestions,
or shall I recap or add info?

It's all very well to say "do this other thing, it's better" but if no
one can tell me *how* to do it (with specific reference to this
specific case), and now Joy is saying the ol' "to speed the cure" (as
Hahnemann states in the Organon) is not really relevant, and no I can't
/ shouldn't repeat for any other reasons or on any other time table
than with dry doses---I am at a loss, my friends! What shall I do? In
what way is it better, or even different?
Shannon

[tjelie]

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Robert & Shannon Nelson
wrote:
if no
(as
can't
table
do? In
Hi Shannon

I also struggled with this "speed the cure" thing. As I see it now
it is not so much speeding but more being able to do something and
not having to wait endlessly.
In most cases I give LM in solution, but just let them take once. My
experience is that there is a real reaction after about 1 week and
tell them that if the reaction is too heavy they can call and we see
if eventually there has to be a repetition. After 4 weeks there is
the follow up.
In the past I often let them take another teaspoon again then, but
lately I more often wait because it felt to much like manipulating.
So I think the only difference with the "give high and wait and
watch" method is that I "can do" something if needed and give LM
instead of C-potencies. Personally I like the LM as it looks to me
deep acting but gentle.
Maybe not exactly how it was meant by Hahnemann but this is how
I use potencies in most cases.

Annemieke

[Joy Lucas]

Er, excuse me, I am not stuck in the 4th edition I go by the case in
hand and whether I think it needs a dry dose of ANY potency or a liquid
dose of ANY potency, then I can think about management which includes
repetition if necessary. Even with Lm's there are so many different
methods - how many granules to use, how many succussions, how many
teaspoons, how many doses. Some people administer LMs repeatedly until
there is a reaction, some give a split dose, some give a single test
dose and take it from there.

Dry doses the same, some people repeat until a reaction, some give a
single dose, some go up and down the scale of potencies. etc etc. Some
of these choices seem to come from principles other than Hahnemann and
it baffles me often but every practitioner has to be responsible for
their own practice and if they get results then ????

But you can only be guided by each case in my opinion unless you want
to be routine about your methods and treat each case the same (this
also baffles me). I think David Little's site and his posts on this
will offer the best insight which I am sure you have already studied at
length - so, next case you get, why not think about whether it is
suitable for water dosing and apply a method for this. You can learn a
lot form others but you have to build your own experience as well. This
sort of situation is why I so believe in supervision - for all of us
)

If you feel you want to give water doses to this case are you able to
post the whole case? Trouble is you've caught many at holiday time, but
I would give time to it as a specific case rather than just writing
about the seemingly endless methods. I know you have posted bits about
the case but if you want someone to advise it would have to be the
whole case.

Best wishes, Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Shannon Nelson]

Thanks Annemieke!
You are saying that *usually* a single dose of LM-1 brings a
satisfactory and progressive reaction, beginning within a week? Very
interesting! Can I ask how you have them dose--dropper bottle or
bigger bottle, and what size of dose (and I assume this is variable)?

So is there any reason you will or might repeat *other* than seeing the
action begin to slow or stop? If there's no reaction to the first dose
after a week, what do you do?

You say, " if the reaction is too heavy they can call and we see if
eventually there has to be a repetition." So if the reaction is "too
heavy", what do you do--repeat, or just counsel and make the next dose
(if any) gentler, or ?
Thanks!
Shannon

[tjelie]

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Robert & Shannon Nelson
wrote:
***What I usually see is that the first days after the single dose
there is not so much reaction, I even warn them that for the first
week it may seem like not have taken a remedy at all but after
one and sometimes even after two weeks there usually is a markeble
reaction.
Very
variable)?

***Mostly a bottle of 20 ml and then 5 concussions and take one
teaspoon. Not nessesary 5 concussions but I have to start with
something
seeing the
dose

***If so I would only find that out after 4 weeks in the follow-up,
but in most cases there was some reaction. If the reaction is too
minor I more often look for a better remedy (same family, same
stage, compound) then repeat the same.

if
is "too
dose

***I let them repeat with less concussion or solve one teaspoon in a
glass of water. But when I get the feeling that the worst is over we
sometimes deceide to do nothing.

Annemieke
now
and
once. My
and
see
is
but
manipulating.
me
how

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Annemieke,
A little more "exploring"!
?? 20 ml is about one ounce? Which is not much more than one tsp. Do
you perhaps mean 200 ml?
So initially you don't use a dilution glass, right? Can you generalize
about what frequency of repetition usually winds up being necessary?
(I realize / assume there must be a lot of variability?)

Which doesn't seem practical if the patient is really suffering, but I
assume that in that case you would make a different arrangement with
them?
Wow, that certainly simplifies it! Can I ask how heavy your practice
is and for how long--just want to put this in a context, over how large
a range of patients this has been reliable. I assume this is for
"functional" cases, not ones with organic changes? I've never heard
this method before. Is it something you found by experience, or ??
(Not trying to be nosy and certainly not critical--just curious, and
trying to put it in a context!)

Thanks again!
Shannon

[tjelie]

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Robert & Shannon Nelson
wrote:

tsp. Do

# No, really 20 ml no special reason but the bottles I use tend
to get smaller in time
# That's right, the first dose I let them take straight from the
bottle.
Can you generalize
necessary?

# Lately I am giving less and less repetitions. For the first remedy
I very much like to have a solid repertorization (so mostly that
turns out to be a relatively well known remedy) but when I get the
feeling that I have to repeat the remedy to soon, I tend to think it
also could be a lesser known remedy in the same stage or serie.
up,
but I
with

# If it is an acute I let them call the next day, but if the
reaction is good I let them call only if it is nessesary.
Can I ask how heavy your practice
large

# Not much weight yet I see about 3 patients a week and I am
practicing 2 years now.
I assume this is for
heard
or ??

# Well to me it feels rather logically, the best of both worlds
because in a way I like the wait and watch method a lot and I also
love the LM solutions.
But at this point there is not much to say in general because I have
far to little experience, especially in cases of severe pathology
and suppression.
Annemieke

[Shannon Nelson]

Thanks again! I hope it didn't seem like I was "raking you over the
coals"! It sounds like a really nice method, which I am going to keep
well in mind. I wonder whether the strength and length of reaction are
the same with the more standard type of LM dose (which winds up giving
a much smaller fraction of a pillule)? Well, this will "put the
brakes" on my rush to see response from first dose, and that can't be
bad!
Cheers and Happy Holidays!
Shannon