Epilepsy case help

[Shannon Nelson]

Continuing on with my epileptic buddy... We have had ups and downs and
"wrinkles", and each time I feel like I am "going under" (way out of my
depth), things start going right again so i don't have the option of
giving up (and there is no one I can pass her on to--I have tried!!!!
Plus she cannot pay.). But I would dearly love some input on where we
are to date.

Quick recap (stuffing that elephant on into its birdcage), she did very
well for perhaps eight months on increasingly infrequent doses of Nat-m
LM-1. Things were really moving beautifully--no seizures, energy good,
and she waxed lyrical about the emotional breakthroughs she was having
(e.g. bitter reproach replaced by "curiosity and sympathy", new
insights, new acceptance).

Then we moved into some "wrinkles" expressing in apparently abscessed
tooth (and staphysagria-shouting events playing out like a really bad
movie!), then episodes around moldy walls. Those both were finally
resolved, but by that point (after the tooth episodes) nat-m started
"misbehaving", giving aggravation and etc. *Maybe* I could have got
thru that by more carefully jiggering the dosing, but moving to LM-2
did not help, and before we managed to work it out, things changed.

Next stage was deep, deep, deep, deep exhaustion, plus increase of
symptoms of oncoming Addisons (which she's flirted with for some time
but had abated during Nat-m). This *might* have still responded to
Nat-m in different posology, but we weren't working it out, and my
feeling was that she was simply in a different place, needed a
different remedy. While waiting for her next remedy to come (I was
going to try mur-ac, but it seems to have gotten lost in the mail
anyway) she had another bad seizure, with fall, and another bad
concussion (she's had a string of concussions over the past 15 years or
so).

Cicuta seems to fit the present symptoms well, and I was surprised to
see that it also seems to fit her post-seizure episodes from the past.
She had her first dose of 30c on Sunday, and seems to be
improving--prior to that her speech was slow and halting, she would
lose track of the thread of conversation mid-sentence, her short-term
memory was shredded to the point that "How are you?" became a question
of deep complexity that she was (is?) unable to negotiate: "How am
I... Can you ask me something more specific?" And that night I asked
Well, is the remedy helping? "I don't know, I can't remember how I
*was*." So we've agreed that I will phone her twice daily (she didn't
think she would remember to phone *me*) so that *I* can judge (or try
to, in a telephone snapshot (( , since she is 1500 miles away),
and try to decide when/if to re-dose.

First dose was Sunday afternoon. Yesterday (Monday) morning she
sounded clearer and calmer, and last night sounded almost perky--so I
am encouraged at this point. (Over the prior week or so since the
seizure there had been no particular improvement that I could notice,
so I am quite comfortable in giving the remedy credit for this--and
hoping the improvement will last.)

FWIW, this is not worse than her last seizure, right before we started
nat-m. But on that occasion I didn't at first realize how impaired her
memory was and I think she over-dosed and perhaps brought on yet
another seizure, so I am NOT going to make that mistake again!!!!!
(But improvement was rapid after that.)

Does this seem an appropriate potency for the situation (30c), and can
anyone give comments about what I might expect as far as need to
repeat, or anything? I wish we could use LMs again, but don't want to
chance it with her memory, mental tracking and powers of observation so
shot. Maybe she can manage water dose for the next dose(s), but I'll
have to see.

Can anyone share experiences with this sort of thing--either epilepsy
or head injury or whatever?
Thank you!
Shannon

[Joy Lucas]

Dear Shannon, I think the crux of this lies with the Addison's disease,
i.e. the convulsions (more a kind of unconsciousness), poor memory,
allergic type reactions, complete fatigue and I guess you have
researched Addison's disease. Because of the links between the sx
(apart from the obvious fact they are occurring in the same person), I
think the Addison's needs addressing because the convulsions might be
arising from this. Is this covered by the Cicuta? I was thinking
Cortisone. It seems to me that the stronger of the two set of sx is
being presented now, what other sx of Addison's does she have?

Apart from that, and to answer your questions, it is common for
concussion to happen with someone who has epilepsy and this can be
treated as an acute if there are sx that need treating. Other than that
I personally think that LM's might have been better as so many cases of
epilepsy need repeating but you can repeat with any potency if it is
needed, so why not wait and see and repeat if necessary. Most of the
cases i have had with epilepsy are on heavy medication and so after a
test dose I tend to repeat quite frequently until people feel confident
enough to reduce their medications. if she is not on any other
medications then a single test dose of 30c is more than valid but you
still have to wait and see what is forthcoming. Hope useful, best
wishes, Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Shannon Nelson]

Thanks Joy, a useful line of thinking...
Somewhat. All I've really found are lists of symptoms (she has had
them all or nearly so--tho don't know if all are current; but they were
within the past few months). The links I've found simply call it an
"autoimmune disease", yet I assume that chronic high-level stress can
exhaust the adrenals and get you to a similar end. My friend's history
contains a degree of high-level stress that would have most anyone on
their knees, plus perhaps a family weakness in that area as well.
Well, that makes sense. One of her predisposing factors has been lack
of sleep--she has never had a seizure without having some particularly
high-stress even in the prior day or so, tho simply missing too large a
chunk of sleep has sometimes been enough to tip her over the edge.
That certainly seems to support the adrenal connection!
It's not in that rubric, but I'm assuming that, as with all of the
pathological ones, that rubric is suggestive rather than definitive.
What's your thought?
Cortisone is one I've thought of, but without really researching it.
She did have some time on steroids after an accidental poisoning (do
you recall my posts about a friend's "adventures" with Taro leaf
poisoning? That was her!), and on that basis plus other indications
I'd given her cortico. 6c--dramatic results for the first dose, but (in
a nutshell) it fizzled. I'll look more into cortisone, thanks. Can
you say any more about why it comes to your mind?
Which two sets? Actually the specific issues right now seem to be from
the concussion--severe memory and mental impairment, severe vertigo.
But do you mean the deep exhaustion that preceded the seizure, or ?
(from memory) Pigment darkening esp. in folds and on face; pains in
various places, esp. abdominal but also others; tremendous thirst
("unquenchable"? not sure), off-and-on nausea and difficulty eating;
some tremulousness tho I can't get at my details right now. I'll look
later and see if there are more specifics.
She has been mostly unmedicated; was for a while, but hated it and got
off it.
This has been possible because the seizures have been infrequent
(except for certain periods). She no longer drives.
Okay, that's where we're at now.
My inclination / assumption would be to repeat the dose whenever we see
a clear relapse has begun--tho I would *not* wait for more than *just*
a beginning of relapse, because I am less fearful of overdosing, in
this severe situation and under this close scrutiny, than I am of
leaving her unsupported by a (presumably helpful) remedy at this stage.
Would you agree, or what would you be watching for?
Thanks!
Shannon

[Joy Lucas]

edited

I would want it to cover the sx of addison's as well, even more so if
the epilepsy is a direct result of the addisons. In other words the
adrenal susceptibility has been there all the time but now the more
obvious sx of it are presenting - the best rx, i.e. the simillimum
surely must include the sx of addisons. Although Cicuta can literally
drop to the floor (as can happen in one with addison's) it is a most
violent rx with the opisthotonos and distortion of limbs. the
connection to concussion with Cicuta is that the convulsions can be a
result of a fall or injury to the head - I understood it that she has
concussion because she falls and hits her head. So if causation needs
to come into it I'm not sure where addison's fits into Cicuta - maybe
others can offer insight into this.

I was bringing together the addison's disease, loss of willpower and
memory, state of fatigue, allergic state that the mouldy walls might
have contributed to + now that you say she has the pigmentation of the
skin, vertigo (this might precede the falling to the ground), OA Julian
says there is often thyroid dysfunction so insatiable thirst and/or
appetite comes into it as would the trembling - some of these are
common sx to addisons and could be covered by other rx as well such as
adrenalin. Cortisone also has an affinity to the pancreas so maybe that
is why there is such a degree of thirst.

I was separating the seizures from your previous posts to the more
influential addisons of the present - the more important disease will
always come to the fore

all the usual - feeling of well being, return of old sx, maybe an
aggravation of something or other, a shift in the thirst requirements,
skin colour changes, the so called seizures may or may not continue but
some kind of alleviation would be expected at some time. It isn't
always easy treating someone long distance so frequent consultation is
crucial and that way you can address anything that comes up quickly,
just as you would if she were local. I don't think it is a question of
leaving her unsupported because you have prescribed for her and the
remedy needs to do its work without too much interruption, at least for
a while. Best wishes, Joy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[cbwillis9]

A few comments, from an integrative perspective:

- with low adrenals, keep potencies low. The vital force cannot
handle higher potencies. Consider the person a "sensitive", the
lower the adrenals, the more sensitive.

- I have seen unquenchable thirst or close to it relieve
with Aconite in infection or somaticized trauma.
With Acetic Ac if caused by use of vinegars and
accompanied by water retention - vinegars would be contraindicated
here - very deranging to some women especially,
and more so the older they get.
Or with Testosterone (T) supplementation if low T levels
post meno (you don't mention her age or meno status, but presumably
there could be idiosyncratic low T levels in a pre-meno woman),
and from a TCM perspective there are no surprises here as low
adrenals, low thyroid, low T are all TCM deficient kidney yang.
TCM would give acupuncture and/or tonification herbs. In TCM,
brain, nervous system, bones, hormones, teeth, gums are all
kidney meridian related.

We see some elderly people with brain atrophy, severe dementia,
parkinsons, low hormone levels, low neurotransmitter levels,
running on fumes and hanging on by a thread, getting
epilepsy for the first time. Very TCM deficient kidney yang etc,
generally deficient everything and extremely poor quality of life.

The lack of sleep can be low progesterone, and giving oral
micoronized progesterone at bedtime can not only help sleep
but also give more adrenal support.

There are LOTS of hormone receptors in the brain. Many people have
no idea how much hormones affect the brain and nervous system.
And for anyone on the thin edge hormonally, a little hormone can
make a big difference.

I have seen Carcinosin help the "connect" between breath/prana,
adrenals and life force. A disconnect can be created by having
had to give one's power away, inhibit one's expression, be
socially appropriate, be obedient, etc. This can be the survival
strategy over generations. A person can come into life
with low adrenal reserve, and I think we're seeing more
and more of this. These people end up victims of stress
and overwhelm from others more dominant and energetic. A
mild, "nice," kindly, low energy person is "not a threat",
only the most cowardly bully
would attack such a one. So perversely, low energy and
disconnect from life is a survival strategy even though
the person feels like hell. Can be a generational pattern.
So Carc. may help to clear some of the disconnect from life.

Natrums due to sodium/adrenal connection. I wonder about her having
proved Nat Mur somewhat. Nat Carb, like Carc. another victim remedy,
find it helps poor oxygenation at the cellular level even
out to the periphery of the body as seen in skin on feet; also
firmness of stool. Silica. Carbo Veg.

But in low adrenals, and as a low adrenal person myself since
birth, I say do whatever you have to do to get the
energy up safely, support and nourish the adrenals - they are basic
basic basic! Vitmins C and B complex, extra pantothenic acid.
TCM herbs, bioidentical hormones, to the point where the person can
get into motion and exercise to raise Qi. Many report benefit from
1/4 - 1/2 t. salt in water first thing in the morning.
Whatever it takes to get the energy up. Can't afford to be a
modality snob here.

[Reference: my articles on Excess vs Deficient Constitution,
Integrative Approach to Adrenal Support.]

Carol Willis
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/willis_protocols
Article archive in Files, not a discussion group.

[Shannon Nelson]

I'll look into that. At the moment, tho, we're very much in the
"acute"/injury stage, trying to help her recover her memory, balance,
ability to think straight.
Funnily, nat-m *is* in that rubric, as well as covering her case really
well--much better than I thought when I first prescribed it! (I
learned a lot about nat-m *after* she started on it!) But I wasn't
able to get it working right again. I had hoped that maybe the cortico
6c would "remove the obstacle to cure" of the past steroid use, and let
the nat-m begin working again, but it didn't seem to happen... So for
the moment I am staying pretty tightly centered in present-time symptom
picture, and keeping an entirely open mind about how or whether that
will tie in with her larger picture. But I am certainly keeping a
strong focus on the addison's too, and I will look more into those
specitic symptoms.
Hm, I'd missed that. I'll keep that in mind.
My understanding is that the vertigo resulted from the concussion
and/or seizure. In the past she has had loss of memory even after
seizure without head injury, but the vertigo I *think* is specifically
from the concussion--but I will check that too!
She has been on Armour for a few years, definitely thyroid trouble.
The thirst can be adrenal symptom; I didn't know it could be a thyroid
symptom too--even *low* thyroid?
The trembling is exhaustion, not hyperthyroid.
No diabetes; she's been repeatedly checked for that, presumably because
of the thirst.
drinking huge amounts yet still with dehydration) can result from
adrenal exhaustion--the explanation I was given is that weak adrenals
cannot hold onto sodium, and so the body cannot hold on to water. I
found eating salt only minimally helpful (*very* minimally, actually)
but found herbs for adrenal support very helpful (plus improved diet,
but she's doing all that).
I see, good point.
Right, but I meant what would be your cue to re-dose?
Improvement *seems* to be underway, and I won't have her re-dose so
long as I can see that it is continuing.
Thanks!
Shannon

[Ellen Madono]

Hi Shannon,
I have been working with an epilepsy case that I inherited from my teacher. For more than 6 months, my teacher was trying Cicuta and Arnica for the suspected head injury. I was not impressed with the results. But I had a cicuta case before who had the eyes open during the quiet convulsions. Head injury was causal, the person was socially very childish and avoiding strangers. Cicuta cured.
Now I am using the constitutional with the first above epilepsy case and he initially got stronger than normal bout of aura as an aggravation. After 3 days of taking the constitutional remedy, he was driving on the highway so it was very dangerous. I stopped the remedy until his wife could be there to drive him everywhere. Nearly a year fooling with the head injury possibility may have helped, but I have a feeling that the constitutional is going to be much more powerful. I am working with a 6c with repetition as needed and plan to work up to 1 LM after the 30c repetitions are reached. I am cautious because these aura aggravations are very scary for him, (and for me). He has the auras occasional despite heavy medication but they are usually short and he stays totally conscious so driving is not out of the question.
Blessings,
Ellen

[Joy Lucas]

>

If none of the usual and expected signs of improvement occurred then
you would have to be really sure of the rx to think about repeating and
if they did occur then you would be waiting until that improvement
and/or effect wore off before you thought about repeating. But you have
to put all improvement into context and improvement has to be ranked in
the same way as sx priority. If there is improvement then be patient
and find a way of 'knowing' what *seems* means. Best wishes, Joy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[muthu kumar]

Hi Shannon-
Memory loss after epileptic spasms - Absinth, Zinc ( knerr)
Memory weak after epilepsy - Calc
Convulsions - Addison's - Iod, Calc
Vertigo - epileptic - during intervals - Calc
Looks like Calc comes up a lot...

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[Shannon Nelson]

The "seems" will become clearer when more time has passed. So it
sounds like we're on the same page with this.
Thanks!
Shannon