Celiac, was triticum vulgare

[doctorleelah2h]

HI Shannon,
IS white rice "empty calorie"? NO I don't think so. What is empty
calorie is (over) refined wheat (we call it maida here).
BUt we rarely use maida in home preparations of wheat - we use direct
wheat flour for rotis, chappatis, etc.

White rice has less vitamins and roughage than red rice (unpolished),
but it is complex starch that is digested for energy (they are daily
wage labourers). There are Indians that eat nothing elese except white
rice. OF course they aren't overwieght though. They'd be dead if it
was empty calorie wouoldn't they?
In rural areas, it is more common to eat par boiled rice though (red
rice), as instinctually they knew that completely polishing the rice
reduced the nutrients.
Leela

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Robert & Shannon Nelson
wrote:
solanin, a

[Rosemary C Hyde]

They eat just rice with no pulses at all in their diet, and no vegetables of any kind? If they truly eat only rice with no other substance ever in their diets, then it's truly amazing that they survive and are able to work, without being constantly ill. I've treated a couple of Buddhist monks from extremely ascetic sects who have tried doing that, and they absolutely had to start adding other things to their diet in order to begin being able to function, let alone feel decent (or respond to homeopathic remedies -- they were severely malnourished when I started working with them. I guess there are very spiritually tuned in people-- the sect leaders -- who can -- or at least say they can -- go on for a long time in a state of severe deprivation of vital nutrients and still function, but most people can't.). Be that as it may, white rice and white wheat flour are foods processed by humans in such a way as to strip off vital nutrients. And in this totally physical sense (as well as the more spiritul one generally ascribed to this saying), people really can't survive by bread (grains) alone. Rosemary

[doctorleelah2h]

Hi Rosemary,
Its true these people do end up with a lot of nutritional deficiencies
and severe anemia.

The commonly added pulse to a rice preparation in the South of India
is a white lentil whihc is mixed in proportion of about 1: 4 (rice).
This is the most economical food here. I'm refering to the poorest
people who are often the homeless daily wage labourers. They do have a
very wwatery dal preparation along with it. but the quality of what
these people eat hardly has any dal in it!

The other badly nourished and extremely poor group are the tribals.
these people too eat very large quantities of rice - mainly par boiled
rice with bran and sometimes just a small piece of a vegetable if they
can afford it.

These people often need a lot of supplemetation of vitamins and
minerals when they come for treatment.

Actually we (i mean my family) eat white rice all the time. I'd feel
terribly empty if I did not have my plateful of rice a day. IT feels
like I haven't had food in my system! OF course the diet is balanced,
but I can hardly believe that I'm eating empty calories.
I don't think we over-process our food grains here. I think we get
pretty much the natural cereals as they are available from the farms.
And so they cost much less too.
Its important to cook the rice properly without draining out the water
it is cooked in.

Just last week I was trying to caution my inlaws about eating too much
of processed cheese and ice-cream.... eben though it tastes good.
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Rosemary C Hyde"
wrote:
vegetables of any kind? If they truly eat only rice with no other
substance ever in their diets, then it's truly amazing that they
survive and are able to work, without being constantly ill. I've
treated a couple of Buddhist monks from extremely ascetic sects who
have tried doing that, and they absolutely had to start adding other
things to their diet in order to begin being able to function, let
alone feel decent (or respond to homeopathic remedies -- they were
severely malnourished when I started working with them. I guess there
are very spiritually tuned in people-- the sect leaders -- who can --
or at least say they can -- go on for a long time in a state of severe
deprivation of vital nutrients and still function, but most people
can't.). Be that as it may, white rice and white wheat flour are foods
processed by humans in such a way as to strip off vital nutrients.
And in this totally physical sense (as well as the more spiritul one
generally ascribed to this saying), people really can't survive by
bread (grains) alone. Rosemary
calorie",
body of
sprouted or
I've
white
sensitivity;
water in
remember, but
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[Simon King LCPH MARH]

I seem to remember a scientific report on a test done to determine
how Papua New Guinians were getting protein in their diet as their
stool samples demonstrated protein metabolism yet they only ate
sweet potatoe which according to the report contained no protein
IT was suggested that this mystery could only be explained because
the human body is capable of some amazing things not eyt comprehended
Simon
All things are possible, some are just more probable than others.

[Rosemary C Hyde]

Dear Leela. Very interesting. Thanks for the details. I figured that these people needed something other than white rice in order to sustain a minimum level of energy. The only difference between white rice and brown rice, I thought (I could be wrong), was that white rice had had the outer husk milled off and brown rice hadn't.

I agree, it's a bit hyperbolic to say that white rice constitutes "empty calories." It does have calories, and sugars, which are satisfying and filling short-term. It doesn't have the full range of nutrients that the grain provides, many of which have been milled off with the husks. And the addition of pulses of some kind to grains does enable the body to create the protein it needs out of these two sources of carbohydrate.

Within the context of this discussion on historic human diets, I've been curious for a long time about why, if something in reality is not particularly good for us (e.g., starchy foods), do we seem to have such quasi-universal, strongly programed desires for it and satisfaction from it ? What's going on? What ancestral need are we responding to? I don't know if anyone knows, for sure, of course, but thought I'd ask, since the discussion has taken this path.

This whole discussion has been relevant to homeopathic practice because the nutritional status of clients when we see them is so important (as Hahnemann also pointed out in discussing maintaining causes of illness) to their state of health and their ability to respond to remedies.

Rosemary

[Rosemary C Hyde]

I've had the same thought about the late 19th century Irish population which, as far as I know, ate mostly potatoes, with, for the more fortunate, occasional oats. Their state of health wasn't so great, but they survived, and some lived long productive lives. I have indeed wondered about the hidden protein content of potatoes (different species entirely than sweet potatoes and yams, but same idea....). Rosemary

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

I think the desire for carbs comes from the desire to relieve hunger, and the availability and relative ease to produce them in agricultural settings; less dangerous than hunting and gathering.
Add to that sugar, which fullfils our ancestral need for fast energy availabiltiy and you have the recipe for breakfast cereals.
Note that I do not equate cereals and starches: every root and tuber, preferably not overselected for generations, has it place in human diet; it is the "industrial" production of cereals I have a problem with. Admitteldly it is the cheapest way to mass produce food, if it were not so refined there would be less health concern and that is probably why the poor indian people referred to in other emails are still able to live and do hard work, as I suppose (but could be wrong) that the whitening of cereals is less thorough than in western countries.

Another problem with cereals is that in my experience, on their own they provoke the feeling of satiety way longer after the necessary nutrients have been ingested, contrarily to animal proteins, so the tendency is to eat a lot more of them to feel full. If I remember well, it has to do with leptin production, far away in my memory.

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"

[muthu kumar]

Carbs are the best providers of energy.. compared to proteins there
is more energy per gram of carbs, probably twice as much
Glucose is the energy that brain could use
there is nothing inherently wrong in carbs except wherefrom and how
it comes... white flour and sugar are the worst ways of getting it
anyway...
White rice is bad wherever it is used esp. without anything else to
supplement. That may be one of the reasons why Indians are more
diabetes-prone than almost any other population. Originally it was
the disease of the rich ( who tend to use more refined sugar and
white rice whereas the poor usually buy low quality (which is really
brown rice or not so polished rice and so might be healthier and
they do not wash this stuff multiple times to get rid of the
vitamins either) but of late diabetes is the disease of the poor as
well because even they have started using white rice.
The only positive thing about rice could be in terms of less allergy
potential compared to wheat.
May be in moderation ( esp. as whole grains) combined with a
physically active life is ok but otherwise the less grains the
better all around.

Not all our instincts are good in modern day living. It is not good
even in birds. Experiments in birds have shown that the birds would
like to sit on more colorful and attractive dummy eggs than their
own eggs to hatch ( so much for maternal instinct). This instinct is
neither useful for the bird nor for the species. More than instinct
what we need is flexibility. Lack of flexibility is what disease is
about- human instinctual craving for carbs was a survival mechanism
when we were evolving, but should not control us now...we are not
only indulging in things that we should not but we are also allowing
ourselves to be persuaded by food product companies who use this
bird-like mentality of ours to market their colorful, attractively
packaged food products- we are sitting on colorful dummy eggs all
the time - which could turn out to be our graveyards dug with our
own teeth
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD"
wrote:
hunger, and the availability and relative ease to produce them in
agricultural settings; less dangerous than hunting and gathering.
energy availabiltiy and you have the recipe for breakfast cereals.
tuber, preferably not overselected for generations, has it place in
human diet; it is the "industrial" production of cereals I have a
problem with. Admitteldly it is the cheapest way to mass produce
food, if it were not so refined there would be less health concern
and that is probably why the poor indian people referred to in other
emails are still able to live and do hard work, as I suppose (but
could be wrong) that the whitening of cereals is less thorough than
in western countries.
own they provoke the feeling of satiety way longer after the
necessary nutrients have been ingested, contrarily to animal
proteins, so the tendency is to eat a lot more of them to feel full.
If I remember well, it has to do with leptin production, far away in
my memory.
figured that these people needed something other than white rice in
order to sustain a minimum level of energy. The only difference
between white rice and brown rice, I thought (I could be wrong), was
that white rice had had the outer husk milled off and brown rice
hadn't.
constitutes "empty calories." It does have calories, and sugars,
which are satisfying and filling short-term. It doesn't have the
full range of nutrients that the grain provides, many of which have
been milled off with the husks. And the addition of pulses of some
kind to grains does enable the body to create the protein it needs
out of these two sources of carbohydrate.
I've been curious for a long time about why, if something in reality
is not particularly good for us (e.g., starchy foods), do we seem to
have such quasi-universal, strongly programed desires for it and
satisfaction from it ? What's going on? What ancestral need are we
responding to? I don't know if anyone knows, for sure, of course,
but thought I'd ask, since the discussion has taken this path.
because the nutritional status of clients when we see them is so
important (as Hahnemann also pointed out in discussing maintaining
causes of illness) to their state of health and their ability to
respond to remedies.

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

Not exactly.....
Carbs = 4 KCal%
Proteins = 4 KCal%
Fats = 9 KCal%

The main difference between carbs and proteins at the energy level is the rapidity of aborption and availability after ingestion, and within carbs, that rapidity varies according to the Glycemic Index, which in turn determines spikes in insulin, etc,.....

But it is true many people are digging their graves with their teeth, which is why as practitioners, we have the responsibility to steer them in the right direction.

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"

[Ellen Madono]

Hi Shannon,
I just got home from being away for 2 weeks. So I am jumping in. About sprouting rice and beans, is there some simple way of not forgetting that you are doing it and allowing them to spoil? I am interested in sprouting my rice, but my experience with spouting beans tells me that this may not be so easy. I think there is something about speeding up the process by keeping the rice warm as you would in making yogurt.

About white rice being empty calories, It seems to me that the ground flour etc is open to spoiling (Oxidization???). That is the central problem, not just the loss of food value due to milling the exoderm of the rice kernnel. Grains that are covered with an inner Kernnel like brown rice can last longer than such ground flour. Asians eat white rice all the time (many eat it 3 times a day), but I have never heard of allergy to rice, the way flour eaters have allergy to corn and wheat. Japanese are very fussy about when the rice kernnel was milled. There are milling stations all over Tokyo because people don't want to eat "old rice." Also, national standards of rice value are all based on the area where it is produced and the age of the rice since harvest. I have never heard a common American fussing about the age of flour or the milling time. (exclude the few who mill their own flour) I think even white rice is less likely to be spoiled (if moths worms don't eat the uncooked rice first.) because normal not particularily health conscious Japanese people have internalized these standards. They are concerned about the taste and texture of the rice, not health.
Blessings,
Ellen
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