online case TM/Dec.01
online case TM/Dec.01
Dear all, here is the new online case for the first half of December. As
usual please post your thoughts and advice to the whole group so we can
share them. Hope you find this interesting.
Best wishes, Joy Lucas
From Tanya Marquette
I have been working with this woman for 6-7 years. Although there has
been a great deal of progress, I am feeling a bit stuck and can use some
input. I did not include all the remedies that we have used and don't know
if it is useful at this initial point to note them.
Tanya
60 yr old female, white. Fair skin, hair dyed red and spiked.
Cc: history of migraine HA; vomiting; rheumatoid arthritis
location of Sx: HA over left eye then moves to sinuses
stomach 'distress' and diarrhea; history of violent vomiting which is
relatively under control now but nausea still occurs with HA
RA: severe ulna drift in both hands; shoulder weakness; hips, knees and
ankles
sensations: HA described as 'flirting' energy that doesnt know where to
land; tapping sensation
that awakens her.
Stomach distress is a nausea; sometimes it feels like a snake
writhing; other times it
is like a hard lump.
Recently she has reported a sense of a hard lump in her throat that
is hard to swallow around.
modalities: always better warmth except HA which is > cold application
usual please post your thoughts and advice to the whole group so we can
share them. Hope you find this interesting.
Best wishes, Joy Lucas
From Tanya Marquette
I have been working with this woman for 6-7 years. Although there has
been a great deal of progress, I am feeling a bit stuck and can use some
input. I did not include all the remedies that we have used and don't know
if it is useful at this initial point to note them.
Tanya
60 yr old female, white. Fair skin, hair dyed red and spiked.
Cc: history of migraine HA; vomiting; rheumatoid arthritis
location of Sx: HA over left eye then moves to sinuses
stomach 'distress' and diarrhea; history of violent vomiting which is
relatively under control now but nausea still occurs with HA
RA: severe ulna drift in both hands; shoulder weakness; hips, knees and
ankles
sensations: HA described as 'flirting' energy that doesnt know where to
land; tapping sensation
that awakens her.
Stomach distress is a nausea; sometimes it feels like a snake
writhing; other times it
is like a hard lump.
Recently she has reported a sense of a hard lump in her throat that
is hard to swallow around.
modalities: always better warmth except HA which is > cold application
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Re: online case TM/Dec.01
I crossed off:
Ailments mental shock against
Aliment from anger suppressed.
ONLY one remedy remains!!
Theme: UNRESOLVED CONFLICT (Father, Rape 1st husband, second husband, WTC)
It covers quite a lot of her symptoms too.
Good old Ignatia.
What do you think??
Soroush
Ailments mental shock against
Aliment from anger suppressed.
ONLY one remedy remains!!
Theme: UNRESOLVED CONFLICT (Father, Rape 1st husband, second husband, WTC)
It covers quite a lot of her symptoms too.
Good old Ignatia.
What do you think??
Soroush
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Re: online case TM/Dec.01
Daer Joy Lucas,
I have been reading this case and as I kept going my
feeling of the case began developing to name the
remedy. It is Staph. The mentals suppressed every
thing etc. This is only the feel of the case.
May change if I get my enough time to repertorise the
case.
Dr. Khalid Saboor
Homeopathic
Physician & Consultant.
Pakistan.
--- Joy Lucas wrote:
=== message truncated ===
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I have been reading this case and as I kept going my
feeling of the case began developing to name the
remedy. It is Staph. The mentals suppressed every
thing etc. This is only the feel of the case.
May change if I get my enough time to repertorise the
case.
Dr. Khalid Saboor
Homeopathic
Physician & Consultant.
Pakistan.
--- Joy Lucas wrote:
=== message truncated ===
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
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Re: online case TM/Dec.01
Dear Tanya, here is my offering regarding your case:-
EXTREME HIGH ENERGY - works on discharging energy - night time energy -
restless, highly energised
WILDNESS - sex, alcohol and drugs
EROTIC MANIA/LASCIVIOUS - part of her indulgence in sexual relationships
NERVOUS TENSION like a coiled spring - part of the energy aspect
HEADSTRONG, ABUSIVE - screams and hits pillows
DRIVEN TO VIGOUROUS MOVEMENTS - hitting out (RA prevents easy movement,
another suppression)
DISOBEDIENT - polarity of obedient - tries to be the good girl, extremely
dutiful
STRONG SELF PROTECTION - attacks people and things, likes to act out being
mean and nasty - can this defence mechanism also include poison?
LOVES ACTING, loves attention - cunning and foxy - pretending - open but
controlling
AILMENTS FROM ANGER, PUNISHMENT, DISAPPOINTMENT IN LOVE, SENSORY IMPRESSIONS
STRONG COLOURS FEATURE - spiky dyed red hair
ANXIETY, causeless - something going to go wrong
CANNOT BEAR TO BE LOOKED AT - embarrassment and shame
SOMETHING ALIVE IN ABDOMEN
VIOLENT VOMITING
HEAD PAIN AFTER SLEEP + pain, forehead, above eyes
WANDERING PAINS - pain as if don't know where to land
<<< EVENING/NIGHT
CONTRACTION OF LIMBS (RA), weak legs
REMEDY = TARENTULA hispania
A very interesting case and thank you for sharing.
PS - imagine what a spider looks like when it is dead (bar being squashed) -
the limbs always contract inwards!
Best wishes, Joy Lucas
EXTREME HIGH ENERGY - works on discharging energy - night time energy -
restless, highly energised
WILDNESS - sex, alcohol and drugs
EROTIC MANIA/LASCIVIOUS - part of her indulgence in sexual relationships
NERVOUS TENSION like a coiled spring - part of the energy aspect
HEADSTRONG, ABUSIVE - screams and hits pillows
DRIVEN TO VIGOUROUS MOVEMENTS - hitting out (RA prevents easy movement,
another suppression)
DISOBEDIENT - polarity of obedient - tries to be the good girl, extremely
dutiful
STRONG SELF PROTECTION - attacks people and things, likes to act out being
mean and nasty - can this defence mechanism also include poison?
LOVES ACTING, loves attention - cunning and foxy - pretending - open but
controlling
AILMENTS FROM ANGER, PUNISHMENT, DISAPPOINTMENT IN LOVE, SENSORY IMPRESSIONS
STRONG COLOURS FEATURE - spiky dyed red hair
ANXIETY, causeless - something going to go wrong
CANNOT BEAR TO BE LOOKED AT - embarrassment and shame
SOMETHING ALIVE IN ABDOMEN
VIOLENT VOMITING
HEAD PAIN AFTER SLEEP + pain, forehead, above eyes
WANDERING PAINS - pain as if don't know where to land
<<< EVENING/NIGHT
CONTRACTION OF LIMBS (RA), weak legs
REMEDY = TARENTULA hispania
A very interesting case and thank you for sharing.
PS - imagine what a spider looks like when it is dead (bar being squashed) -
the limbs always contract inwards!
Best wishes, Joy Lucas
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Re: online case TM/Dec.01
Dear Joy
Look at the morbity, not at what you think the repertory might throw up.
Remember that even though Kent is glorified for his theories on
constitutionalization, it is a methodology which he did not advocate. the
totality of morbity is the key, not what you may perceive to be the essence,
centre, etc. Like as not tons of people will hate the sound of this, but
this is instinctual stuff, not theorising.
I only submit on this website when I feel that the path is lost, not for
personal reasons of glorification. Feel the remedy in the patient from your
own experience of how it has worked for you in the past - then you know.
Don't go on second hand stuff - remember that the repertory is incomplete,
often inaccurate, and always will be.
Lifetime to yourself
Andy Felthouse
Look at the morbity, not at what you think the repertory might throw up.
Remember that even though Kent is glorified for his theories on
constitutionalization, it is a methodology which he did not advocate. the
totality of morbity is the key, not what you may perceive to be the essence,
centre, etc. Like as not tons of people will hate the sound of this, but
this is instinctual stuff, not theorising.
I only submit on this website when I feel that the path is lost, not for
personal reasons of glorification. Feel the remedy in the patient from your
own experience of how it has worked for you in the past - then you know.
Don't go on second hand stuff - remember that the repertory is incomplete,
often inaccurate, and always will be.
Lifetime to yourself
Andy Felthouse
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Re: online case TM/Dec.01
After repertorizing, I think it's worth considering seriously either THUJA
(writhing in stomach, release from acting, RA and Migraines, among other
symptoms -- also fear of losing control); or CUPRUM (RA and migraines, as
well as the vomiting, restlessness, mildness alternating with irritability
and dominance (this was the only remedy under this rubric, with intensity
2)).
Also, ARS does look really close to this case, so with any luck it will work
and hold -- I'd keep using it as long as it does, before making any further
changes.
Here are rubrics I used and Rx that corresponded:
Mind fear losing control (Ars 3, Thuj 1)
Mind delusions pursued by enemies (Cupr 1, ars 1)
Mind obstinate headstrong alternating with mildness (cupr 2)
Mind restlessness night (cupr 2, ars 3, thuj 1)
Head pain accomp. by nausea (cupr 2, ars 2, thuj 1)
Mind shrieking (cupr 3, ars 1, thuj 1)
throat swallowing difficult (cupr 2, ars 2, thuj 1)
Generals night midnight after (cupr 2, ars 3, thuj 3)
Generals magnetism amel. (cupr 3)
extremities pain joints in warmth amel (ars 3)
Stomach alive in sensation as if something (thuj 1)
Generals evening (cupr 1, ars 2, thuj 2)
Generals inflammation joints of deformans arthritis (cupr 1, ars 2, thuj 2)
I also thought that the whole picture could resemble a snake remedy (Naja?).
For what it's worth... Hope this helps somewhat. Rosemary C. Hyde, Ph.D.
(writhing in stomach, release from acting, RA and Migraines, among other
symptoms -- also fear of losing control); or CUPRUM (RA and migraines, as
well as the vomiting, restlessness, mildness alternating with irritability
and dominance (this was the only remedy under this rubric, with intensity
2)).
Also, ARS does look really close to this case, so with any luck it will work
and hold -- I'd keep using it as long as it does, before making any further
changes.
Here are rubrics I used and Rx that corresponded:
Mind fear losing control (Ars 3, Thuj 1)
Mind delusions pursued by enemies (Cupr 1, ars 1)
Mind obstinate headstrong alternating with mildness (cupr 2)
Mind restlessness night (cupr 2, ars 3, thuj 1)
Head pain accomp. by nausea (cupr 2, ars 2, thuj 1)
Mind shrieking (cupr 3, ars 1, thuj 1)
throat swallowing difficult (cupr 2, ars 2, thuj 1)
Generals night midnight after (cupr 2, ars 3, thuj 3)
Generals magnetism amel. (cupr 3)
extremities pain joints in warmth amel (ars 3)
Stomach alive in sensation as if something (thuj 1)
Generals evening (cupr 1, ars 2, thuj 2)
Generals inflammation joints of deformans arthritis (cupr 1, ars 2, thuj 2)
I also thought that the whole picture could resemble a snake remedy (Naja?).
For what it's worth... Hope this helps somewhat. Rosemary C. Hyde, Ph.D.
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Re: online case TM/Dec.01
Hi All,
Wow, what great responses and so fast. Let me see if i can respond.
1. ignatia is a good possibility. i think she had nat mur way back when with some good results. but the unresolved resentment rings true
2. staph was the next rx on my list, especially with the fear of loss of control. this is a BIG theme that has been coming through recently. The WTC really pushed that button.
3. tarantula! hmm. now that is the most intriguing thought.
i really got my little brain tickled with some the rubrics like the one dealing with color and her spiked hair, or the rubric 'loves acting'.
my question about this rx is this: is it realistic to still factor these behaviors in if she seems to have moved through them? many of her traits are not current in her life. she now talks about wanting to be alone at home more with herself. regarding her sex life she recently made a comment that at one point of her life she couldn't keep her legs closed, but now noone can get her to open them.
4. lachesis or another snake? i had considered it but wasnt perceiving it strongly enough. but perhaps i was not perceiving correctly
5. thuja? good thought, too.
the arsenicum seems to have helped most recently and i am waiting to hear how she is doing on the LM potency --hopefully with the next week. if there is positive movement, i was considering going up the LM scale a bit and playing this rx out. she is such an interesting person to work with. the analogy of healing to peeling of layers of an onion is a perfect description of her progress.
i thank you all for the different ways of finding the moving snake in stomach feeling. this has opened my perspectives.
i need to now review the case again with all your wonderful suggestions and thoughts. i will get back to you on this soon.
Wow, what great responses and so fast. Let me see if i can respond.
1. ignatia is a good possibility. i think she had nat mur way back when with some good results. but the unresolved resentment rings true
2. staph was the next rx on my list, especially with the fear of loss of control. this is a BIG theme that has been coming through recently. The WTC really pushed that button.
3. tarantula! hmm. now that is the most intriguing thought.
i really got my little brain tickled with some the rubrics like the one dealing with color and her spiked hair, or the rubric 'loves acting'.
my question about this rx is this: is it realistic to still factor these behaviors in if she seems to have moved through them? many of her traits are not current in her life. she now talks about wanting to be alone at home more with herself. regarding her sex life she recently made a comment that at one point of her life she couldn't keep her legs closed, but now noone can get her to open them.
4. lachesis or another snake? i had considered it but wasnt perceiving it strongly enough. but perhaps i was not perceiving correctly
5. thuja? good thought, too.
the arsenicum seems to have helped most recently and i am waiting to hear how she is doing on the LM potency --hopefully with the next week. if there is positive movement, i was considering going up the LM scale a bit and playing this rx out. she is such an interesting person to work with. the analogy of healing to peeling of layers of an onion is a perfect description of her progress.
i thank you all for the different ways of finding the moving snake in stomach feeling. this has opened my perspectives.
i need to now review the case again with all your wonderful suggestions and thoughts. i will get back to you on this soon.
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Re: online case TM/Dec.01
This is of course the beauty of the group DYNAMIC working.
This case has a lot violence in it which needs to be addressed. She is
challenging the norms by her hair.
She is punching the pillow
She loves acting so that she can let this nastiness out of her system
I think the initiating cause needs to be addressed.
Hope this case goes well for you.
Soroush
This case has a lot violence in it which needs to be addressed. She is
challenging the norms by her hair.
She is punching the pillow
She loves acting so that she can let this nastiness out of her system
I think the initiating cause needs to be addressed.
Hope this case goes well for you.
Soroush
Re: online case TM/Dec.01
Dear Tanya, thanks for your extra notes. No you haven't been misleading,
probably just me, early morning rush before clients arrive etc.
Anyway here are my extra thoughts.
This woman has RA which obviously didn't appear overnight. There is a lot of
suppression in this case - from herself, re-hab and even all those Hom. Rx
might have played a part (a moot point). RA is a deep pathology a long way
down the line and suggests a seriously dis-eased vital force.
To emphasise - you have to include the whole dis-eased symptom picture and
from whence it began. You can't just look at what ails her today/now without
assessing where the Sx came from and when they started - the whole picture
begins then. She is possibly still adding to her symptom picture, i.e more
suppression?? And this is the next stage of the pathology. Actually your
case presentation does cover the history very well, I just felt that you
were saying that some Sx didn't matter anymore.
Dr Khalid Saboor mentioned STAPH. Interesting choice. Not allowed a correct
channel so there is suppression but behind this they present as sweetness
and resigned, almost submissive. They go from being highly sexual to
repressing this and a stiffening of emotions occurs. Later pathology turns
into violence and even more suppression could develop into RA where even
movement becomes restricted. This loss of control shows itself as great
INDIGNATION which seems to me how you are describing her as now.
Against Staph = something alive in stomach, violent vomiting, the acting and
attention seeking. Staph are actually very considerate of others. They are
reserved but not necessarily controlling.
Rosemary suggested Naja which hints at the other snakes as well. You have
just received the snakes text and I bet you are thinking along these lines.
Lively, attractive colours, deceptive, seeks attention, sexual, deadly,
sense of restriction (RA), sexual repression = pathology, left sided (some
snakes), suspicious and untrusting, trembling in abdomen (but not strong
Sx).
Against = l. side head pain but every Rx has a head pain of some kind. You
would expect other pathology such as oedema, haemorrhages, menstrual
pathology maybe.
It might be an idea to put some direct remedy related questions to her,
mainly to eliminate as well as confirming - such as sexual habits now (I
know you wrote she has 'stopped' but what else is she doing about it, does
she still have a sexual appetite etc). Is there anything interesting in her
menstrual history. Are there any skin states such as ulcers, styes, warts
etc. Home in on the restlessness - does she like music, dancing, rhythm.
Staph. has a really bad teeth state - is there anything along these lines?
Any other strong basics like food aversions or desires.
I personally would like to know more about when and how the RA developed -
how has this changed her and how does she feel about the restrictions it
imposes on her life etc.
And just to throw a spanner in the works for the weekend....I have just been
looking at more rubrics and was studying 'ailments from suppressed anger
with indignation' + the 'something alive in stomach/abdomen' - I was drawn
to looking at COLOCYNTHIS.
Colocynthis develops most of its Sx in the abdomen and head (presenting
complaint). It is especially suitable for irritable persons easily angered
and ill effects therefrom. Mortification caused by offence, anger with
indignation (her loss of control makes her indignant). SAI stones in
stomach, and SAI something alive in stomach, violent vomiting (purging).
Contraction of muscles, all limbs are drawn together, stiffness of joints
and shortening of tendons, left side. etc etc.... related to Staph and
comparable to the writing dying snake!!! (Boericke).
Might be worth checking it out, but I still like Tarent.
Have a great weekend. Best wishes, Joy.
probably just me, early morning rush before clients arrive etc.
Anyway here are my extra thoughts.
This woman has RA which obviously didn't appear overnight. There is a lot of
suppression in this case - from herself, re-hab and even all those Hom. Rx
might have played a part (a moot point). RA is a deep pathology a long way
down the line and suggests a seriously dis-eased vital force.
To emphasise - you have to include the whole dis-eased symptom picture and
from whence it began. You can't just look at what ails her today/now without
assessing where the Sx came from and when they started - the whole picture
begins then. She is possibly still adding to her symptom picture, i.e more
suppression?? And this is the next stage of the pathology. Actually your
case presentation does cover the history very well, I just felt that you
were saying that some Sx didn't matter anymore.
Dr Khalid Saboor mentioned STAPH. Interesting choice. Not allowed a correct
channel so there is suppression but behind this they present as sweetness
and resigned, almost submissive. They go from being highly sexual to
repressing this and a stiffening of emotions occurs. Later pathology turns
into violence and even more suppression could develop into RA where even
movement becomes restricted. This loss of control shows itself as great
INDIGNATION which seems to me how you are describing her as now.
Against Staph = something alive in stomach, violent vomiting, the acting and
attention seeking. Staph are actually very considerate of others. They are
reserved but not necessarily controlling.
Rosemary suggested Naja which hints at the other snakes as well. You have
just received the snakes text and I bet you are thinking along these lines.
Lively, attractive colours, deceptive, seeks attention, sexual, deadly,
sense of restriction (RA), sexual repression = pathology, left sided (some
snakes), suspicious and untrusting, trembling in abdomen (but not strong
Sx).
Against = l. side head pain but every Rx has a head pain of some kind. You
would expect other pathology such as oedema, haemorrhages, menstrual
pathology maybe.
It might be an idea to put some direct remedy related questions to her,
mainly to eliminate as well as confirming - such as sexual habits now (I
know you wrote she has 'stopped' but what else is she doing about it, does
she still have a sexual appetite etc). Is there anything interesting in her
menstrual history. Are there any skin states such as ulcers, styes, warts
etc. Home in on the restlessness - does she like music, dancing, rhythm.
Staph. has a really bad teeth state - is there anything along these lines?
Any other strong basics like food aversions or desires.
I personally would like to know more about when and how the RA developed -
how has this changed her and how does she feel about the restrictions it
imposes on her life etc.
And just to throw a spanner in the works for the weekend....I have just been
looking at more rubrics and was studying 'ailments from suppressed anger
with indignation' + the 'something alive in stomach/abdomen' - I was drawn
to looking at COLOCYNTHIS.
Colocynthis develops most of its Sx in the abdomen and head (presenting
complaint). It is especially suitable for irritable persons easily angered
and ill effects therefrom. Mortification caused by offence, anger with
indignation (her loss of control makes her indignant). SAI stones in
stomach, and SAI something alive in stomach, violent vomiting (purging).
Contraction of muscles, all limbs are drawn together, stiffness of joints
and shortening of tendons, left side. etc etc.... related to Staph and
comparable to the writing dying snake!!! (Boericke).
Might be worth checking it out, but I still like Tarent.
Have a great weekend. Best wishes, Joy.
Re: online case TM/Dec.01
Dear Tanya, here are my thoughts regarding your case...
I have to say I am a bit puzzled on 2 counts here. One - why has Arsenicum
been prescribed? and Two - why have you chosen LM's as the potency.
I think we need to follow certain guidelines in assessing the remedy
reaction during the follow up after the prescription. (This could be a
worthy discussion elsewhere).
I really don't think the arsenicum has done anything - all Sx she reports
are much the same as reported in the casetaking. Yes the dreams seem to be
worse or more active should I say, but she has always had these sorts of
dreams. I don't read this as an aggravation (which would be a good sign).
You say that the arsenicum has brought a lot of feelings up in her dreams.
How do we know this?Lets not forget that this is someone who has had
therapy, re-hab, reiki and acupuncture. She's knows how to bring these
aspects to the surface, possibly at will. She might even want to show you
that she feels that the remedy is working. But if arsenicum was the correct
remedy, was the simillimum it would be healing her and I don't think it is.
I really really do not think that this is an Arsenicum case. But that is
just my opinion.
Secondly, why LM's? This is a bold and dynamic case, there has been lots of
interference with remedies and other healing practices. The so called RA is
deep pathology. The potency needs to be bold and dynamic as well. She has
masses of a certain kind of energy and the potency really needs to match
that. Again, just my opinion.
I still think her Rx is Tarentula - the ENERGY, the SEXUAL aspects, the
CONTROLLED ANGER, the SECRECY OF EXPRESSING THE ANGER, the H/O VIOLENT
VOMITING with ongoing stomach distress and the peculiar stomach Sx you
reported, the MUSIC and DANCING, the Sx of the RA etc etc.
I feel that you are leaning towards STAPHYSAGRIA - the SUPPRESSION, the
SWEETNESS v NOT SO SWEET, the ANGER which can be violent, the SEXUAL aspect,
the VOMITING, the TEETH, the <<< MILK , the RA, etc. Perhaps you need to
commit your choice here. If it helps think about what Staphysagria is - a
Delphinium (blue??), a tall, beautiful stately plant which needs supporting
to stay upright and TARENTULA - so soft and quiet that you don't know it is
there but gosh, what a poison it can yield.
Hope this helps and not hinders.
Thanks for reading, best wishes, Joy Lucas
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I have to say I am a bit puzzled on 2 counts here. One - why has Arsenicum
been prescribed? and Two - why have you chosen LM's as the potency.
I think we need to follow certain guidelines in assessing the remedy
reaction during the follow up after the prescription. (This could be a
worthy discussion elsewhere).
I really don't think the arsenicum has done anything - all Sx she reports
are much the same as reported in the casetaking. Yes the dreams seem to be
worse or more active should I say, but she has always had these sorts of
dreams. I don't read this as an aggravation (which would be a good sign).
You say that the arsenicum has brought a lot of feelings up in her dreams.
How do we know this?Lets not forget that this is someone who has had
therapy, re-hab, reiki and acupuncture. She's knows how to bring these
aspects to the surface, possibly at will. She might even want to show you
that she feels that the remedy is working. But if arsenicum was the correct
remedy, was the simillimum it would be healing her and I don't think it is.
I really really do not think that this is an Arsenicum case. But that is
just my opinion.
Secondly, why LM's? This is a bold and dynamic case, there has been lots of
interference with remedies and other healing practices. The so called RA is
deep pathology. The potency needs to be bold and dynamic as well. She has
masses of a certain kind of energy and the potency really needs to match
that. Again, just my opinion.
I still think her Rx is Tarentula - the ENERGY, the SEXUAL aspects, the
CONTROLLED ANGER, the SECRECY OF EXPRESSING THE ANGER, the H/O VIOLENT
VOMITING with ongoing stomach distress and the peculiar stomach Sx you
reported, the MUSIC and DANCING, the Sx of the RA etc etc.
I feel that you are leaning towards STAPHYSAGRIA - the SUPPRESSION, the
SWEETNESS v NOT SO SWEET, the ANGER which can be violent, the SEXUAL aspect,
the VOMITING, the TEETH, the <<< MILK , the RA, etc. Perhaps you need to
commit your choice here. If it helps think about what Staphysagria is - a
Delphinium (blue??), a tall, beautiful stately plant which needs supporting
to stay upright and TARENTULA - so soft and quiet that you don't know it is
there but gosh, what a poison it can yield.
Hope this helps and not hinders.
Thanks for reading, best wishes, Joy Lucas
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx