I goofed

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Beth Landau-Halpern
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:00 pm

I goofed

Post by Beth Landau-Halpern »

Dear Group,

It is with a very humble hanging head that I come with one of those
homeopathic errors that we all dread. I'm actually hoping to get some
feedback about what may have been my mistake, and where to go.

Briefly, I saw a patient last Thursday who is 7 months pregnant with her
second child. She had just finished her third consecutive course of
antibiotics for UTI. She was only 2 days off the ab's and was having
symptoms again -- no surprise. She has also been having serious premature
contractions and has been in and out of hospital with these. She was
complaining of stitching back pain which radiated to the pelvis, worse for
lying on the back. She had burning pains in the urethra on urination --
worse midstream. There was a cycle of pain which would start in the back,
radiate to the pelvis, and end up in full blown contractions. Additional
urinary symptoms include burning around the genitals after urination, better
for cold water washing. She also had urinary incontinence which she
associated with the pregnancy, also constipation -- only since advanced
pregnancy. Passing stool relieved the back pain. The urinary pains are
severe enough, especially at night, that she often shrieks in pain with
them. Her mental/emotional picture was unremarkable aside from considerable
anxiety about her husband's missing the birth as he works overseas.

I hope that gives a good enough general picture. I gave her cantharis 30 to
start -- I was concerned about a UTI and wanted to nip it in the bud (so to
speak), although I usually am inclined to more classical prescribing. She
called the next day and said that she had slept through the night without
pain for the first time. I moved her on to sepia 200 which was the remedy I
thought most indicated at this time. I received a message on Monday that she
had been hospitalized on Sunday night with a raging fever, shakes,
hallucinating. She has been diagnosed with advanced kidney infection, is on
intravenous ab's and will be on ab's until she delivers. My guess is that
the urinary infection was there all along, but I am concerned about why the
fever and general aggravation of condition would come up so dramatically
after the remedy. I feel as though I have mismanaged this case badly, and
would like some feed-back about how other people would have handled it.
Also, I wonder where I can go from here. Is there anything I can do if she
remains on ab's -- I'm thinking LMs perhaps. And, she is concerned about the
effect of all these ab's on her baby. Anything that could be done now?

I really appreciate any feed-back. These are the days when being a homeopath
isn't too much fun.
Beth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Liz Hennel
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm

Re: I goofed

Post by Liz Hennel »

Dear Beth
Let me add my voice to the others - you didn't goof at all.
This was the correct prescription, nd it was acting as it should - but this was a strng disease - and reactred as such. Thsi is not unusual in oregnancy, especailly towards full term - I have certainly seen this happen before - and it happened with one of my patients. It is a real heart-sinking feeling for you as the homeopath, but this is not a reason to think that you goofed.
Think about individual susceptibility - we all react diffrently to remedies, as we do to disease. This is the real explanation.
We are called upon to be the best we can as practitioners. You acted in good faith, according to the symptom picture at the time. None of us is perfect -and it is a dangerous delusion to think that any of us are. Being imperfect keeps us on our toes - striving to improve.
Give yourself a break! Get a hug from someone who cares for you - and remember that our best teachers are our patients - and especially those who don't turn out as we expect.
Love
Liz

Beth Landau-Halpern wrote:
Dear Group,

It is with a very humble hanging head that I come with one of those
homeopathic errors that we all dread. I'm actually hoping to get some
feedback about what may have been my mistake, and where to go.

Briefly, I saw a patient last Thursday who is 7 months pregnant with her
second child. She had just finished her third consecutive course of
antibiotics for UTI. She was only 2 days off the ab's and was having
symptoms again -- no surprise. She has also been having serious premature
contractions and has been in and out of hospital with these. She was
complaining of stitching back pain which radiated to the pelvis, worse for
lying on the back. She had burning pains in the urethra on urination --
worse midstream. There was a cycle of pain which would start in the back,
radiate to the pelvis, and end up in full blown contractions. Additional
urinary symptoms include burning around the genitals after urination, better
for cold water washing. She also had urinary incontinence which she
associated with the pregnancy, also constipation -- only since advanced
pregnancy. Passing stool relieved the back pain. The urinary pains are
severe enough, especially at night, that she often shrieks in pain with
them. Her mental/emotional picture was unremarkable aside from considerable
anxiety about her husband's missing the birth as he works overseas.

I hope that gives a good enough general picture. I gave her cantharis 30 to
start -- I was concerned about a UTI and wanted to nip it in the bud (so to
speak), although I usually am inclined to more classical prescribing. She
called the next day and said that she had slept through the night without
pain for the first time. I moved her on to sepia 200 which was the remedy I
thought most indicated at this time. I received a message on Monday that she
had been hospitalized on Sunday night with a raging fever, shakes,
hallucinating. She has been diagnosed with advanced kidney infection, is on
intravenous ab's and will be on ab's until she delivers. My guess is that
the urinary infection was there all along, but I am concerned about why the
fever and general aggravation of condition would come up so dramatically
after the remedy. I feel as though I have mismanaged this case badly, and
would like some feed-back about how other people would have handled it.
Also, I wonder where I can go from here. Is there anything I can do if she
remains on ab's -- I'm thinking LMs perhaps. And, she is concerned about the
effect of all these ab's on her baby. Anything that could be done now?

I really appreciate any feed-back. These are the days when being a homeopath
isn't too much fun.
Beth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Kerry Lawson
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:00 pm

Re: I goofed

Post by Kerry Lawson »

Hello Beth, I would say that there is always something to learn from
possible wrong prescriptions. The Canth didn't seem to cover the whole case
so that's a first lesson. There is still a chance to go over the case again
and find a more appropriate remedy. Second point is why you went so soon
onto Sepia especially such a high potency with one who is pregnant.

It is impossible to tell if the remedy action brought on the <<< state of
the infection or whether they did nothing and she was getting to that point
anyway.

You haven't goofed and we all learn when we choose the wrong remedies first
time round. I would retake the case and begin again. If she's really
interested in homeopathy you might be able to take on the child as well, a
great opportunity to encourage a parent to avoid vaccinations etc and if
there is any problem with all the ab's and the child's health then the
balance can be re-established. Thanks for sharing this experience with us.
Kerry.
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Shannon Nelson
Posts: 8848
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm

Re: I goofed

Post by Shannon Nelson »

I'd like to add my "second" to all of that!!!! You did what seemed
right, and sometimes "things happen" (argh, don't we hate that!).

But I'd also love to kick around ideas about what, in retrospect, might
have enabled things to go differently. (Maybe; who knows...)

I also tend to follow Dr. R's approach, of preferring to have an acute
is well past, before moving on to the "constitutional" / chronic /
"bigger picture" remedy. I have (thinking back) heard it suggested
that a "deeper" remedy may be a more efficient way of helping the body
deal with an acute, but have also heard the possibility that using a
"deep" remedy when the body is engaged with something more immediate,
can give rise to unnecessary aggravation, since the eliminative
channels are already overtaxed and the body is already urgently
occupied. *Maybe* this is what happened here???

Maybe also the fact that the infection had returned thru three bouts of
antibiotics did suggest there was more going on than immediately met
the eye (and maybe this was part of your reasoning in moving right to
Sep??) e.g. perhaps the infection had a particularly deep hold on the
person, and resolving it might take longer / more doses than
usual--which maybe (with the eternal / infernal wisdom of hindsight)
might have suggested to keep closely in touch with her until the
infection was well behind--bummer that this happened across a
weekend!!!

Maybe things would have gone the same even without sepia--from a
one-day good response to one dose, we can't really know much about
"what would have happened"... But if she'd called you when things
first *began* to unravel, maybe you could have set it right with
another remedy chosen on the basis of the now-fuller picture. Ah for
the "alternate reality generator"... (Didn't Nhoj Eel have one of
those in the works?)

Beth, *thanks* for sharing this. Be of good heart! And I am
appreciating the thoughts it's brought out.

Shannon


Beth Landau-Halpern
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:00 pm

Re: I goofed

Post by Beth Landau-Halpern »

Shannon,

Thanks for your, and everyone else's, thoughtful responses. The interesting
thing that she told me when I spoke to her from hospital was that all her
symptoms had improved since the sepia, not just the urinary symptoms. I find
this confusing, as it looks like a curative direction. Of course, I wasn't
able to get details as she was very groggy from all the drugs she's on. I
don't generally like to prescribe for a single complaint and did believe
that the chronic state of her symptoms was due to the pregnancy, thus the
sepia. I didn't believe that the cantharis would act deeply enough which is
why I went in with the sepia quickly. I do not see sepia as a constitutional
remedy for this woman. The pregnancy is the present dominant state and I
went for the total picture within that state (after the cantharis of
course). This raises questions for me about treating pregnant women.
Thanks again to all of you.
Beth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


doctorleelah2h
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:13 pm

Re: I goofed

Post by doctorleelah2h »

Hi Beth,
I hadnn't realised you gave her Sepia. I posted same time as you.
I'd say Sepia could either help with antidoting the bad effects of
the antibiotics or else is the correct intercurrent/acute remedy.
D.r leela

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Beth Landau-Halpern
wrote:
interesting
all her
symptoms. I find
wasn't
on. I
believe
thus the
which is
constitutional
and I
of
women.


Rosemary C Hyde, Ph.D.
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:49 pm

Re: I goofed

Post by Rosemary C Hyde, Ph.D. »

We all agree that Beth shouldn't "beat up on herself."

Dr. Leela started to give some ideas about what we might learn from this example. My question at this point regards following through on that idea. What can we all learn from this, in terms of things to watch out for.

The patient is pregnant. Liz and Leela, can you expand a little your observations on remedies in pregnant women?

There was a previous suppression of the infection. Obviously it wasn't clear from the case as it was presented that the infection might rebound in that way from the remedy. What signs might there have been to proceed cautiously? What would be a prudent response when such signs are present?

Thanks, Beth, for sharing this experience with us, and allowing us to learn from it with you!

Rosemary


Rochelle Marsden
Posts: 2005
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:00 pm

Re: I goofed

Post by Rochelle Marsden »

You didn't goof Beth . You prescribed on the indicated symptoms and as others have said maybe should have continued with the Cantharis a bit longer. For what it is worth I routinely give 200C in pregnancy. Pregnancy is a dynamic state and therefore needs a dynamic potency. I have never had any problems with this. Only with the Rx not working - remember the pregnant nausea and sickness patient- it didn't go away with any Rx I tried and she ended up in hospital twice. At 14 weeks it finally got better and she is back on her constitutional Rx which for some reason didn't do anything for the nausea.

We all get times when we want to jack it in but then someone phones and tells you about their miracle cure and that makes it all worthwhile again.

All the best

Rochelle

Kerry wrote:-

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Liz Hennel
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm

Re: I goofed

Post by Liz Hennel »

During pregnancy the woman's immune system is in a different state - in some ways it is slightly suppressed in order not to reject the fetus as being a "foreign" body, and yet it is also more sensitive. Pregnancy is a very dynamic state, as Dr Leela says, and like her I expect to monitor the situation much more closely. I also prefer to use higher potencies during an acute like this - 200c most often. I have had to deal with similar cases during pregnancy - and I can remember one that really had me sweating - worrying - about the rapid and strong response - and similalry agonising over what I had done. Fortunately at the time I had a really good teacher with a lot of experience of homeopathy in pregnancy - she encouraged and supported me - and spurred me on to have the courage of my homeopathic convictions. I thank her regularly for being an inspiration.
Homeopathy is great for pregnancy - Because of my teacher I do maybe one or two deliveries with homeopathy each year (which is more than most of my colleagues locally), and work with another a dozen women during their pregnancies. Some are more challenging than others, but they are always a real treat. One thing that I find invaluable is Sandra Perko's book on pregnancy and birth. It is modern and accurate - a veritable mine of useful information.
Don't lose heart - don't become scared of using remedies during pregnancy - this is a great time to be a homeopath!
Liz
"Rosemary C Hyde, Ph.D." wrote:
We all agree that Beth shouldn't "beat up on herself."

Dr. Leela started to give some ideas about what we might learn from this example. My question at this point regards following through on that idea. What can we all learn from this, in terms of things to watch out for.

The patient is pregnant. Liz and Leela, can you expand a little your observations on remedies in pregnant women?

There was a previous suppression of the infection. Obviously it wasn't clear from the case as it was presented that the infection might rebound in that way from the remedy. What signs might there have been to proceed cautiously? What would be a prudent response when such signs are present?

Thanks, Beth, for sharing this experience with us, and allowing us to learn from it with you!

Rosemary


Dr. Atiq Ahmad Bhatti
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm

Re: I goofed

Post by Dr. Atiq Ahmad Bhatti »

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Get a grip........
Just relax and practice and try to be as accurate as possible. But don't
just keep thinking about it - it will drive you crazy.
Remedies cannot bring about an infection. If you understand the nature of
infection you'll understand what I mean.
_____

From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Kerry Lawson
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 1:29 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] I goofed
Hello Beth, I would say that there is always something to learn from
possible wrong prescriptions. The Canth didn't seem to cover the whole case
so that's a first lesson. There is still a chance to go over the case again
and find a more appropriate remedy. Second point is why you went so soon
onto Sepia especially such a high potency with one who is pregnant.

It is impossible to tell if the remedy action brought on the <<< state of
the infection or whether they did nothing and she was getting to that point
anyway.

You haven't goofed and we all learn when we choose the wrong remedies first
time round. I would retake the case and begin again. If she's really
interested in homeopathy you might be able to take on the child as well, a
great opportunity to encourage a parent to avoid vaccinations etc and if
there is any problem with all the ab's and the child's health then the
balance can be re-established. Thanks for sharing this experience with us.
Kerry.
_________________________________________________________________
Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters!
http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters
ATTENTION PLEASE:

The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and
educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding
the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read
or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or
email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use
remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its
individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental,
special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.

****
ATTENTION PLEASE!!

If you do not wish to receive individual emails, you can simply change your
setting at http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus to receive a single
daily digest.
_____

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