Susceptibility - Miasm / CEEDs

[Soroush Ebrahimi]

Dear Colleagues

I would like us to discuss these issue - it seems that there is much
learning to be done.

Piet Guijt in response to Joy wrote: "Yes, I agree: no miasms, no
suceptibility."

Ardavan Wrote:
"So what made the human being susceptible to the miasms (infecious
diseases)???

And if you believe (I do not!) that the 'basic' susceptibility in human
being is ONLY because of a miasm shared in ALL individuals from the very
begining (as if being a part of the organism!), how can we ever have a
discussion about the relationship of these two terms; 'susceptibility' and
'miasms'?? Our mind never define the terms that ALWAYS accompany each
other!"

--------
He further wrote in response to Joy
"Let me ask a question!

Do you believe that a person not suffering from a chronic infectious disease
(chronic miasm) will never be affected by low temperature resulting in
frostbite and possibly gangrene of toes??

If a person tortured physically and mentally for 6 months and not being
infected by chronic miasms, will be instantly ok after removal of the
torture and will not suffer from any chronic mental state after that period
of torture???

Is the range of adaptibility of the human being only limited by miasmatic
influence??"

-------

Firstly I think a lot of people are confused by the concept of miasm and
miasms - because perhaps the meaning of these words have changed from
Hahnemann's times.
Originally and simple a miasm was an infectious disease.
Currently what we basically mean miasm is the inherited effects of
infectious and contagious disease.

I think what we mean by them is better expressed by Peter Chappell who calls
them Chronic Effect of Epidemic Diseases (CEEDs)

Please bear with me.
Without having access to modern science of micro organisms (in fact micro
organisms were only theoretically discussed at his time) Hn assessed that a
kind of micro organism was responsible for Syphilis and Gonorrhoea or HPV
infection which he called the Syphilis and Sycotic miasms respectively.

His picture of Psora as a multi-headed Hydra is both interesting and
confused - but the common theme of the multi-headed disease is THE ITCH.
And what is the common factor of most of the common contagious (say
childhood) diseases? Skin eruptions and yes THE ITCH. (please ignore things
like Colds and Flu for the time being).
Also although he came up with a few remedies as his specifics for treating
Syph and Gon, he has a long list of AntiPsoric remedies. Was it the case
that for each of the different types of infection he had seen that he had
found a particular remedy that worked well against each of them as a
specific?

------
Susceptibility
Let us assume that this is the first day that we have MAN on Earth.

We have two options:
Either Man was created as Man and suddenly arrived on Earth
Or
He evolved on Earth through the passage of time.

At the same time, we know that micro organisms (MO) have been on Earth for
much longer than we have - they have fantastic survival mechanisms and can
be found in almost all conditions somewhere on Earth. They adapt well and
can tolerate changes and even strong substances like antibiotics. Over less
than 100 years we see that bacteria that were totally killed off by A/B are
now resistant to them.

I believe that man did NOT suddenly arrive on Earth. Even if he did he would
be faced with an immediate assault by all sorts of things including MO and
it would be more likely that he would not last for very long.

Like all of the other creatures on Earth we live with MO and often
symbiotically. In fact with out them our digestion and other functions
would not be efficiently carried out. However, other MO can cause diseases
with various degrees of contagiousness or virulence. Some will affect small
numbers of any given population and some have the ability to wipe out whole
tribes or quarters. Some are passes through the air, or contaminated food
and water etc.

If you were to take throat swabs from any class of students, you would cover
a multitude of known nasty MO - however, these guys seem to be asymptomatic
'carriers'. There appears to be a balance between the good and bad MO. But
when our system is stressed, and compromised, the balance is disturbed and
these MO can multiply out of control and then we see symptoms developing as
a result.

When these symptoms are not handled properly and the patient survives, we
then have the Chronic Effect of such Diseases establish in the body and on
VF.
VF ordinarily cannot shake them off and I dare say the effect can then make
changes to our genetic make up/DNA etc.
[How else do we see the Tub / Syph / Syc traits many generations down from
the first infection with these particular diseases in a group?]

The question then arises as how did the first susceptibility come about.

In the animal kingdom, we have 'Kill or be killed'. So most of the animals
at the first sign of weakness are eliminated.

We humans with the development of our current day society have developed a
scheme for caring for our infirm. However, this shows that by allowing
those who suffer form CEEDs to not only live but also to reproduce we now
have a society which is susceptible to various ills.

Our immune system has developed well to cope with a variety of say childhood
diseases. Providing we observe relatively clean lives and observe simple
hygiene rules we can remain disease free for years. This immunity is passed
on from Mother to baby and it is so important for mothers to breast feed for
about two years until the child's immune system is developed enough to be
able to cope with the MO around us.

[I remember asking Sheilagh Creasy a hypothetical question which was - If we
wished to establish a colony on say the Moon which was to be absolutely free
of miasms, how many generations of homoeopathic treatment and careful living
would you suppose would be required? Her answer was about 10 - so it would
take about 200-250 years.]

If we rely on stories in the Middle Eastern Holy books we see that the first
sign of deviation is arrogance. We then see jealousy to the extent of desire
to kill coming about VERY quickly (Cain kills off Abel). Such trauma and
guilt added to the inherited arrogance could be the basis of the
susceptibility for disease.
In reading the Quraan for example we can note how often God warns against
arrogance. It is this arrogance that makes us close our eyes, ears and
senses, thought processes to the truth. I think the delusion of I KNOW
BETTER is what casts us off from the straight and narrow.

[God loved Cain, and he said to him, "Why are you scowling? If you always do
what is right, you will be happy. But be careful. Bad thoughts will ruin
your life. Learn to control them." ]

Now having CEEDs also leaves us open with other susceptibilities. They may
remain dormant, but as Ardavan's questions clearly show that our VF can be
also severely affected and weakened by any trauma or shock it receives. So
that weakness immediately translates to susceptibility. This then allows
disease to follow.

I look forward to our discussion on these points and I am so pleased that
after so many years Ardavan has decided to join in the debate.

Rgds
Soroush

[d_barbara_hamilton]

Hi Soroush,

Thank you for this - may I share a few thoughts too?





++++And as long as it is relatively trauma free too ?


+++++'Beliefs' are often the cause of pathology. Check out the remedies in the
rubric: fear of cancer. Lots of anxious remedies there... And Nit ac runs to each
practitioner, failing to be reassured, because they feel toxic from their conviction
that 'the baddies' are all 'out there' and it is not their own toxic thoughts and beliefs
that are making them ill.


+++++My experience too.
Can I just add 'emotional/traumatic' susceptibility into the DNA that is passed down
through generations ? Rajan Sankaran touches on this in one of his books (Gandhi's
son and the prescription of Staphisagria) ? I've seen not just disease, but 'DIS-ease'
stream like a thread through generations - e.g. a case of mine: a teenager who is
reclusive, and "didn't ask to be born" etc. Not unusual perhaps in teenagers, but it is
the haughtiness that accompanies this that is curious, as this is also to be found in
the mother, the mother's father, and the great-grandmother (so I was told). The
latter was the archetypal recluse who apparently chose this route after her husband
died (relatively young): for 30 years she shut herself away, never quite resolving
her grief (and anger) with the world.
The px manifests it in a feeling of being inferior (masking a superiority complex) and
desire to hide. Px also only ever dresses in black - (traditionally seen as suitable
attire for mourning) - interestingly, it has been noted by some homeopaths that
Ignatia likes to wear black and white a good deal. Also feels nervous outside the home
and has developed a strong misanthropy, but the polarity is an equally strong desire
for 'connection' - something I suspect the great-grandmother may have been unable
to resolve.
+++++So am I. Congratulations on opening this whole issue up Soroush.

Best wishes, Barbara

[Piet Guijt]

Soroush wrote:
Hello Soroush, all

Here you go wrong, the multi-headed Hydra of Psora is not because there are
multiple bugs involved, but because as soon as the infection touches the
skin, it joins the individual vital force and maybe already existing psoric
miasm in the organism.
Psora immediate become constitutional and because of this the remedy must be
an individual selected anti-psoric remedy.
It is a misconception to think that the genus epidemicus is only one remedy,
depending of the specific causing germ.
It is a group of remedies which has the qualities to extinguish the disease
force and to restore this now underlying individual disturbance.
This is the Simmilimum and there can only be one. With an individualized
remedy we mean also cover the individual component in the disease. We don't
mean we prescribe on the healthy characteristics of the individual.
Primary Sycosis and Syphilis do not affect the vital force on a deep
individual level, that is why they are much easier to cure. When this is
suppressed it also becomes constitutional and individualized anti-sycotic or
anti-Syphilic remedies must be selected. We can consider this a mixture of
these miasm with the individual Psora and treat them separately, but I
prefer to prescribe the Simillimum instead of two partial remedies, which
some people call Simillimum 1 and Simillimum 2.

Kind regards, Piet

[Ardavan Shahrdar]

>>Soroush Ebrahimi wrote:
Dear Soroush,

And now a question beyond this theory of 'original
sin'.

If human being had the free will of the choice of this
original sin and he had not commited that sin, would
he be able to tolerate the environment of Mercury or
Pluto to survive???? (I know I am exaggerating but if
the adaptibility is limited, for our discussion with
all its 'absolute' feature this example is enough!)

And if he had no choice regarding the sin, are you
saying that the human being is intrinsically
susceptible to diseases??

Regards,

Ardavan
--- Finrod wrote:
=== message truncated ===

"Life is beautiful, if you look at it in a beautiful way."

Dr Ardavan Shahrdar, MD, DIHom
President of Iranian Homeopathic Association
Website: http://www.minutus.org
Email: ashahrdar@yahoo.com
Mailing list: http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

[Soroush Ebrahimi]

Dear Ardavan

Joy's description of health is valid in my view.
In the healthy state and given time, the VF attempts to adapt to the
conditions. If it cannot do this fast enough, the organism will be
endangered. Its VF starts screaming with SYMPTOMS of DIS-EASE. It is no
longer at EASE in the new condition.

Of course there are limitations to this adaptability - we see mankind living
in a wide spectrum of conditions, ranging from the frozen cold of the polar
regions and also in the dry heat of the Sahara.

However, move the Saharan man to the arctic and the Inuit to the Sahara and
they may not survive for long. So we need time to make these changes.

A bit like the person who lives at sea level and decides to climb a high
mountain like the Everest. He will need time to acclimatise himself to the
low air pressure and also low oxygen content of the air as he climbs slowly
up - hence they build stages and stay at these stages for some time before
attempting to go higher.

Even after many years of getting used to conditions, certain problems may
exist. For example a black person living in Sweden may not get enough
sunshine and hence lack Vit D. On the other hand the Swede living in Nigeria
may be in danger of too much exposure to the sun and skin cancers.
Yet the scientists say that we all originated from Africa/Ethiopia! So over
the course of centuries our skin and hair colours have changed according to
the environment.
Imagine how long it would take to walk/migrate from the Sahara to the
arctic!

So when we face such difficulty on the Earth itself, it is obvious that with
out using a lot of resources and creating artificial Earth like environments
we cannot live elsewhere.

-----------
You wrote:
"And if he had no choice regarding the sin, are you saying that the human
being is intrinsically susceptible to diseases??"

According to my understanding, Gods prophets were Innocent (free of sin) to
the degree that as guides for mankind they always chose the best of any
option.
We then see them living many many years on Earth until peacefully dying.
In the Torah we read of no diseases affecting God's prophets. The first
indication is in Leviticus where the Rabbi is not allowed to conduct some
ceremonies if he has some skin lesions. (Did the Rabbis learn to suppress
these skin problems which lead to the fact that within some 1500 years (Time
of Jesus AS) we note the presence of lepers!)

---------

Coming back to the question of is it susceptibility or disease first, Having
stayed up last night till about 1 a.m. to write my earlier post, I woke up
this morning and Aph 1 came to my mind: "The physician's HIGH and ONLY
mission is to restore the sick to health, to cure, as it is termed. 1"

FN1 "His mission is not, however, to construct so-called systems, by
interweaving empty speculations and hypotheses concerning the internal
essential nature of the vital processes and the mode in which diseases
originate" (SNIP). I purposefully snipped here!

I realised that what we are discussing is perhaps just theorising and will
not achieve a great deal other than spin a story together.

I think what we need to do is to face up to the fact that our patients and
ourselves are suffering form the cumulative Chronic effects of various
infectious diseases which have been inherited by us to different degrees -
CEEDs. From time to time we also see patients being infected afresh with
epidemic diseases from which they do not make a full recovery.

Hn has clearly shown us that the two situations need to be handled slightly
differently although along the same main principles of Symptom Similarity.

We see patients being stung/bitten by insects and other animals some giving
an injection of venom or micro organisms. We also see that the balance we
have with the micro organisms is fragile.

If our VF is strong, it will deal with these rapid changes and imbalances.
If not, it may die or be seriously challenged - with no recovery in sight
unless the right homoeopathic remedy is applied.

We need to understand what has happened so that we can practise preventative
measures and also learn how to treat them effectively.

With highest regards and respect
Soroush

Message: 22
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 21:58:50 +0000 (GMT)
From: Ardavan Shahrdar
Subject: Re: Susceptibility - Miasm / CEEDs
Dear Soroush,

And now a question beyond this theory of 'original
sin'.

If human being had the free will of the choice of this
original sin and he had not commited that sin, would
he be able to tolerate the environment of Mercury or
Pluto to survive???? (I know I am exaggerating but if
the adaptibility is limited, for our discussion with
all its 'absolute' feature this example is enough!)

And if he had no choice regarding the sin, are you
saying that the human being is intrinsically
susceptible to diseases??

Regards,

Ardavan

[Ardavan Shahrdar]

> Soroush Ebrahimi wrote:

Dear Soroush,

What you're saying is the description of 'disease'.
What I understand from what Joy says is that she
believes that a 'healthy' person will never be
diseased unless he/she is primarily affected by
chronic miasms. (Sorry Joy if I have misunderstood.)

In my view, health is not an idealistic power of
unlimited adaptibility. If you believe in the first
aphorism, it is no use to mention prophets,
magicians,... as example of unlimited adaptibility (if
they really had or have unlimited adaptibility).

Yes... health IS the power of adaptibility BUT within
a specific range. Disease develops when the stress is
outside this range of adaptibility. Human being
consciously or unconsciously tries to choose
environment, postures,.... to provide conditions for
this 'ease'.

A healthy person can become diseased if he/she alters
his lifestyle, environment, etc (which is optimal for
his limited range of adaptibility), or if the quality
or amplitude of stresses, miasms (whatever), etc
affecting on his/her organism are outside his/her
range of adaptibility.

Regards,

Ardavan
"Life is beautiful, if you look at it in a beautiful way."

Dr Ardavan Shahrdar, MD, DIHom
President of Iranian Homeopathic Association
Website: http://www.minutus.org
Email: ashahrdar@yahoo.com
Mailing list: http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

[Soroush Ebrahimi]

Dear Ardavan

You WROTE:
"A healthy person can become diseased if he/she alters his lifestyle,
environment, etc (which is optimal for his limited range of adaptability),
or if the quality or amplitude of stresses, miasms (whatever), etc affecting
on his/her organism are outside his/her range of adaptability."

Also "Disease develops when the stress is outside this range of
adaptability."

I have no problem whatsoever with the above. We have the Farsi expression
"Tarke- aadat mojeb maraz ast" which roughly translated means change of
habit is a cause of disease.

This is why in Hn case taking we pay attention to what has changed in the
life of the patient.

Rgds
Soroush