Abuse of vitamins etc

[Soroush Ebrahimi]

Dear Colleagues

In advocating usage of vitamins etc, great care must be taken.

It is only in the past few years that mankind has managed to take these
things in pill form.

A few questions:
When you take a Vit C tablet, how many oranges and lemons and limes is that
equivalent to?
When you take Vit A in tablet form, how many carrots is that equivalent to?
Can you eat that amount in one sitting? And what about the diarrhoea that
follows?

Vitamins and other supplements should be taken via foods containing them and
in MODERATION, else all the major organs come under great stress
unnecessarily.

If any one is interested in symptoms of vitamin abuse, please contact me
personally.

Rgds
Soroush
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 22:30:35 -0500
From: Bob&Shannon
Subject: Re: Re: X- Rays

Then she should *definitely* include good, hefty doses of antioxidants!!!!
Tons of vitamins A,C,E, and some of the various herbal antioxidants, etc.
(There are very good nutrition books that would give focused ideas.)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[J Lucas]

I agree with this very much. It is a billion dollar industry that people
just really don't need to subscribe to - just eat well and live as well as
possible. In Britain alone this industry is worth at least £300 million.
Apart from that vitamin therapy requires a delicate balance, some vitamins
having quite a low toxicity rate. The BBC are tx a programme next week -
Horizon "The Truth About Vitamins" which many of you will be able to access
if interested.

Best, Joy

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 9/9/04 9:22 am, Finrod at finrod@webstar.co.uk wrote:
Dear Colleagues

In advocating usage of vitamins etc, great care must be taken.

It is only in the past few years that mankind has managed to take these
things in pill form.

A few questions:
When you take a Vit C tablet, how many oranges and lemons and limes is that
equivalent to?
When you take Vit A in tablet form, how many carrots is that equivalent to?
Can you eat that amount in one sitting? And what about the diarrhoea that
follows?

Vitamins and other supplements should be taken via foods containing them and
in MODERATION, else all the major organs come under great stress
unnecessarily.

If any one is interested in symptoms of vitamin abuse, please contact me
personally.

Rgds
Soroush
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 22:30:35 -0500
From: Bob&Shannon
Subject: Re: Re: X- Rays

Then she should *definitely* include good, hefty doses of antioxidants!!!!
Tons of vitamins A,C,E, and some of the various herbal antioxidants, etc.
(There are very good nutrition books that would give focused ideas.)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Shannon Nelson]

Hm, since this is off-topic, I suppose we should let it drop, and I suppose
I should have sent my remark privately. I would find it annoying if this
list becomes so regimented that one can't even make a single "look it up"
remark about something as basic as nutrition, esp. where it has been stated
that "constitituional" approach to the problem is not at present an
option...

Soroush, your remarks were really irrelevant to the subject, but unless you
have interest in following up privately, I will let it drop.

Shannon
on 9/9/04 3:22 AM, Finrod at finrod@webstar.co.uk wrote:

[Shannon Nelson]

Well... The vitamin industry is in direct competition with the drug
industry, isn't it. And that is where *some* of the opposition comes from.
"Just eat well and live as well as possible" is a fine approach for a
constitutionally strong person living in an appropriate environment, but it
just doesn't work for some folks -- and I speak here from *extensive*
personal, familial and other experience.

Nutrition was my first "self-help" tool, and I've gotten lots of education
and experience with it starting at an early age. So I can say with some
authority that, (a) it does not have the deep *curative* powers of good
homeopathic care, and (b) it is an *extremely* useful therapeutic tool, and
often a useful adjunct to homeopathic care (for *some* people it is, tho
completely unnecessary for others). If this is considered topical, I'll be
happy to explain and defend my position; otherwise I will let it go. (And
of course (c), that yes, it is important to stay within the bounds of
safety, and of one's understanding. But the needed information is readily
available.)

I'm sure it is easy enough to find examples of where vitamins are misused,
overused, used in ineffective and/or hyperexpensive ways, that one poke fun
at -- just as is done with homeopathy. And just as with homeopathy, it is
also easy to find examples to illustrate tremendous usefulness. A whole lot
of reporting has to do with what one goes looking for, doesn't it.

And as with homeoathy, if you don't know what you're talking about (and Joy,
in this case you *don't* know what you're talking about), it's best not to
get too carried away putting down a tool that so many have found so useful.

Best wishes,
Shannon
(who will be happy to match wits, credentials and experience with anyone on
this subject!)
on 9/9/04 3:49 AM, J Lucas at j.lucas@ntlworld.com wrote:

[Shannon Nelson]

PS -- I would, however, be very interested in hearing the program, or a
summary of their points. If, as Joy suggests, it consists of a lot of
negative information about vitamins, I would find it very interesting that
it's coming up now, during CODEX's push for dominion over our healthcare
choices. (Up With Drugs! Down With Vitamins!) Or do you guys think the
CODEX folks are just guardian angels trying to protect us from the ravages
and trauma that nasty old vitamin industry has been putting folks thru?
Hmmmmm...
/:-*

on 9/9/04 3:49 AM, J Lucas at j.lucas@ntlworld.com wrote:

[J Lucas]

Oh please, don't know where you get this idea from but I would put these
multinational groups into the same bucket.

Joy
on 9/9/04 2:31 pm, Bob&Shannon at shannonnelson@tds.net wrote:

PS -- I would, however, be very interested in hearing the program, or a
summary of their points. If, as Joy suggests, it consists of a lot of
negative information about vitamins, I would find it very interesting that
it's coming up now, during CODEX's push for dominion over our healthcare
choices. (Up With Drugs! Down With Vitamins!) Or do you guys think the
CODEX folks are just guardian angels trying to protect us from the ravages
and trauma that nasty old vitamin industry has been putting folks thru?
Hmmmmm...
/:-*
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[mbernard2424]

While I agree the vitamin industry is, for the most part, out of
control, offering a multitude of quick fixes and silver bullets;
there are some instances where vitamin therapy may be indicated.

For example, chronic alcoholism and drug abuse strip the body of many
nutrients and inhibit absorption of others. I am a firm believer in
homeopathy; however, there are obstacles to cure that may need to be
removed before remedies work reliably. I'm sure there are many
homeopaths that are skilled enough to find *the* perfect remedy that
will work through anything – these homeopaths are not available on
every corner.

As was inadvertently slipped out to this list a few weeks ago, I've
been fighting chronic cravings for white wine. I tried long-term
consultation with a skilled homeopath. It didn't work, well-
indicated remedies tried and failed. Finally, at wit's end, I went
back to a nutritional program that worked for me many years ago
http://www.healthrecovery.com/MainPage.html. It did work then, I
quit drinking without AA or detox symptoms. It was virtually
painless. Unfortunately, I did not continue the program and
eventually picked up drinking again. I quit a few more times, using
AA, rehab programs and homeopathy and each time was progressively
harder and more painful.

The program detailed in the link above (which has improved
tremendously since I used it the first time) uses mega doses of
vitamin C, several different amino acids, minerals, etc. as well as
dietary lifestyle changes, namely, no processed sugar, caffeine,
etc.

Today I am four days sober, I am not suffering detox symptoms (except
maybe night terrors, but I had those when I drank) and already
feeling the benefits of better nutrition and absorption. My cravings
are still there, but they are mild in comparison to what they would
be if I were not taking these supplements. I am very in-tune to my
body and know when something is wrong and believe me, I could feel I
wasn't getting what I needed out of the food I ate (and I do eat
reasonably well) because of the wine I was drinking. This is the
first time I've felt this way so, as we all know, alcoholism is a
progressive "disease." I believe it is not all in my head, however,
there are some biochemical facets of the condition that could be
corrected using nutritional therapy. Please say a prayer that it
works.

I suppose, at some point down the road, I'll pick up with homeopathy
again, but for now, I'm sticking with what's working and am very
grateful for it.

As an end note, food is not what it used to be. Unless you are
growing your own fruits and vegetables using organic means (or at
least in well nourished soil) and raising your own meat (feeding the
animals you raise a species-appropriate diet) you are eating food
that is stripped of vital nutrients. Some supplementation may be in
order, minimally omega 3 fatty acids, B vitamins, minerals,
antioxidants, etc.. There is so much processed food available that
it's difficult to consider making your own meals from scratch when
you can buy dinner-in-a-box, which is frozen or dried out, processed,
full of chemicals and stripped of its vitalness. Proper diet is
extremely important to a healthy lifestyle. It has been my
experience (which means cats, and maybe cats are more in need of
proper nutrition than humans, I don't know) that if the individual is
fed properly, homeopathic remedies work better.

Michelle T. Bernard
BLAKKATZ Naturally Raised American Shorthairs
http://www.blakkatz.com
Author of Raising Cats Naturally
http://www.raisingcatsnaturally.com

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Soroush,

I agree with you that vitamin supplementation should not be done without
familiarity with some guidelines; these guidelines are readily available.

For some of us supplementation with vitamins and etc. can make the
difference between health and illness, between doing well and doing badly --
for some of us, this is true *even* while under homeopathic care. There are
many available tools, and all tools should be used with awareness and
respect, and it's IMO foolish to dismiss an approach that you do not have
familiarity with; it's not clever when allopaths do it about homeopathy, and
it's not clever when homeopaths do it about other modalities.

Best wishes,
Shannon

on 9/9/04 3:22 AM, Finrod at finrod@webstar.co.uk wrote: