Asclepius in the Balance 1 Asclepius - the Circus Clown

[muthu kumar]

Thanks David for your posting. Most of it is my sentiments exactly.
At the same time my contention is if the therapeutic system does not
adjust to the larger system of the world it will always remain a
fringe medicine forever and we can keep on posting on
how `classical' homeopathy can get rid of the disease from the root
up and other kinds suppress the disease.

I have practiced as an MD and I was practicing both allopathy and
homeopathy in the same clinic. People who came specifically for
homeopathy got the "classical" holy grail.
They got rid of all the suppressions, skin peeled off like onion
and finally could jump over the tallest building in one bound and
stop a speeding train with one hand and attained WHOs definition of
health.

But I had a clientele of poor patients who were expressly coming to
get something for immediate relief and something that they can keep
with them at times of acute conditions like a common cold or cough
or whatever. Most of them cannot afford even normal consultation
fee. Some of them got some combinations. I had a
big bottle of different size blank tablets soaked with some
combinations. For cold with productive cough I had a combination and
the same way another for dry cough. I had one for Flu. I had another
for boils, abscesses etc.Each one of these used to be a combination
of 4 or 5 medicines. All of these cases would have needed mostly
antibiotics otherwise. These medicines were inexpensive, ( I used
to charge Rs10 at that time ( 12 years back) for both consultation
and medicines whereas the antibiotics by themselves would have been
at least 4 times that for a course. For this group of patients
Homeopathy is not a medicine they trust. Most of them ask for
injections. Lots of times that is the reason they come to the
doctor; otherwise in India you get even the most potent antibiotic
over the counter. I used to get some homeopathic injections, Homeo
injections used to be sold in India before they banned it and then
the companies were still selling them in the same ampoules ( why
would you need ampoules for homeo medicines if not for injections)
but with a cautionary label– Not for Injection. Practitioners who
knew about these still used to buy them and used them as injections.

I have never had a single case showing any kind of problem because
of these combinations and / or injections. I had the satisfaction of
seeing that people improved after these medicines and also that I am
not drugging them with antibiotics and steroids.
If I did not give these injections the same group would have gone to
another doctor spent more money on injections ( usually doctors give
a course of injections) and suffered. These medicines used to work
almost like antibiotics at least for these conditions without any of
the noticeable side effects. Any one who says that homeo medicines
are worse than allopathic steroids and antibiotics- lies—I can only
say that they have not seen it from the trenches.

Mixopathy? Fixopathy? Eclectic… Eli Jones of the East… Whatever. I
was not treating millionaires in Bombay or people who had insurance
or National Health coverage or who know enough about Health and
Homeopathy. I was doing this with a strong sense of helping them
which help they probably would never get. Once I had the confidence
of the people I have switched them over to Homeopathy.

Moral of the story is – and always is – what does the patient
ultimately get? I can be the most classical wise "Homer " of
homeopathy and still if I cannot give the patient relief – I can be
blabbering – "oh this is Hering's Law ( or even Hahnemann's law ) in
action – you should wait - but still have these patients leave
homeopathy. But there is a class of people who would wait –
probably more educated, more health conscious- another class which
cannot due to so many circumstances.

But in this discussion the point is whether combination remedies
which are already in the market should be legally allowed or not.
Their legality or otherwise is not going to change anything. People
who are already using them are going to continue doing so and others
might not use them any how.

Has there been any concerted effort any where in the world till now
to get rid of the combination remedies currently lining the homeo
pharmacy shelves? If not why not? I would welcome it if it were
possible to get rid of them and do single medicine single dose and
single globule homeopathy. But I know that I will have to wait
forever for this to happen. No one is going to goad Classical
Homeopaths to go and purchase combos if they do not want to. I have
never used other combinations from pharmacies in my practice and
never prescribed them. But as I have said I have known other people
who have successfully done so. Availability of something does not
mean mass acceptance. But if the fraternity thinks that these should
be banned then wave the flags, bang the drum and march on against
the pharmacies.
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, David Little wrote:
conservative in
form
same time,
one hand,
truly
considered
that
mean
mixtures,
traditional
and the
potentized
their
at once
are and
use
percentage
suffer from
take a long
possible
They think
are doing
some
state and
disease they
these
that
the
elimination and
remedies,
in a
another
cause
many such
conscientious,
aware that
include
remedies in
similars into
balances
some who
not
certainly not
but they
off the
grand title
new methods
used by
alchemy
situations,
among the
acute
patient
even
remedy
drugs,
homoeopathic
suppression are
This is
say
intervention is
remedy,
constitutional
Hahnemannian
but then
was acute
miasms. He
remedy. He
great effect
use of the
by
strikingly
the cure
diseases and
homoeopaths
classic
introduced?
homoeopathy
anything that is
naturopathic cum new
remedies,
best for
medicines
potentized
misnomer.
by chance
force of
at least
people
few months.
remedies
a real
homoeopathic
who has
been tested
standard. The
homoeopathy
be
what to
with the
ask.
do, and
however,
mostly
provings
anecdotes is
may be a
proven to
my mind
possible with
medicines in
is "Healer do no
Homeolist
homoeopaths discuss
lists be
Naturopathy,
there are
and
You
most
where the
not.
so-called
Hahnemann
the same
tested
have quoted
Hering
Homoeopathy
defame
easiest and
he
understand
changing
not
everything
add to
Allen,
you
Scholten,
realize that
points (like
leaving
introduced by
blind spots
after
In this
without

[muthu kumar]

David-

I like your postings not just a Little but a lot

Responding to your post in inside out and in reverse order of its
occurrence (see I know this by heart) - I am aware of Asclepius and
Hahnemann's article. I used to carry Hahnemann's Lesser writings to
my bed always. Nothing to beat it for putting me to a peaceful sleep
excepting Kent's philosophy. Kent's Lesser writings makes me snore
and toss around…(just kidding…) The fact I mentioned the clown is
pointing to myself and my antics. Please do not take me seriously.
The sarcasm is not definitely meant for any one in particular. Just
to lighten the mood a "Little" bit ( How is that?)

When I said combinations NEVER gave any problems which in your eyes
probably undermined my claims – I was telling what happened in MY
practice. Or let us say whatever happened was not more than if we
give single medicine. Of course sometimes the combination did not
work at all.

I have practiced Homeopathy for more than 20 years ( since 1982 in
fact). I have at least read the titles of most of the books that
are necessary for a "traditional" practice like you are doing. I
consider myself a student of Homeopathy ( what a humble soul…) but
not a tyro any more. I started practicing Homeopathy for five years
before I got my MD. I have treated volume patients with single
remedies myself including many severe infections and triple vessel
blocks and serious conditions. There are so many Homeopathy camps
that I have worked in as well. I catered to a different set of
clientele when I used combinations to put it mildly. I believe in
the superiority of single medicines and traditional homeopathy and
that is what I do mostly. My point in this whole thing is –

Combinations need not be relegated to garbage and the users of such
need not be considered mongrels automatically. Like I did,
prescribers have to use these combinations at times. They need not
be ECLECTICS either. If I do single medicine homeopathy in 80% of my
cases and for the rest if I give combinations does that make me
Eclectic or Eclectic-When-Expedient???

If I use acupuncture – I shall be an acupuncturist. It does not
matter if I am doing acupuncture the Chinese way or the French way
or following Felix Mann or just puncturing ear lobes. If I use
Homeopuncture for example I would not want people to call me
Eclectic because Homeopathy is not mentioned in "Yellow Emperor's
Classic of Internal Medicine" 3000 years back …

You are aware that so many allopathy doctors got thrown out of their
associations ( even in India during the British rule) because they
practiced Homeopathy along with allopathy or by itself. I have
faced ridicule in medical school for practicing Homeopathy. Calling
people who use combinations as Mixopaths or Eclectics smacks of the
same thing. Can we fault Dr. Lilienthal or Dr.Boericke because they
used injections in their practice? Did Hahnemann advise case taking
using free association as some current "classical leaders" are
doing? Where would Dr.Burnett be if he gets put on Asclepius'
balance? Kent went on a rampage against Hughes for idealogical
reasons. Do we need such `Greater than thou' feelings instead of
being more inclusive? You said traditional homeopathy is strong
enough to with stand combinations… exactly. If Homeopathy has
survived thus far even in the face so much advancement in Allopathy
it should probably be magnanimous to some of its own ranks who may
not follow the "straight and the narrow". But there are
certain "cutting edge" cultures which are really "cutting the edge
out". My patients would not consider me strange or eclectic or even
non-homeopathic if I use combinations. But if I say that I am giving
them something that will clear their chakras or I knew the curative
symptoms because I meditated on it or dowsed or did a hair and photo
analysis to find the medicine - it is then I will be looked upon
like "Come on doctor get a grip". This is what needs to be
prevented. This is what will open us to ridicule.

Even pathological prescribing is not such a bad thing if the full
picture is never lost sight of and you are aware of what you are
doing and why – the raison d'etre for so many homeopathic
therapeutics books including Lilienthals…

If we think combinations are bad and homeopathic community should
be "cured" of this- the Homeopathic way is to treat it with
similars. Give Mixopaths acceptance and let Indian Committee give
it permission. Let the people who practice combinations do that
without fear of ridicule and classical noses turning up and
classical lips curling. Then show these "black sheep" how single
medicine cures work in a superior way without condescending. This is
the true homeopathic cure. To say that combinations are illegal and
banning is akin to allopathic suppression (See I am getting many
novel ideas…)

If whole is greater than the sum of its parts – then Homeopathy is
greater than all of our practices combined… it is not defined by any
one methodology and everything creates this composite mosaic of
superior practice. Moreover most of the combination stuff is NOT
used by doctors, they are meant for self help for patients.

I respect you for your erudition and single minded focus on the
traditional, strictly Hahnemannian homeopathic focus. I am just
asking that since this is what we are doing most of the time as well
(except when we are not in the mood ha,ha) , we need not be
marginalized for our lapses and ventures into the wicked world.

Long live Hahnemann's legacy (see my devotion)
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, David Little wrote:
exactly.
not
root
of
superman
results
to
keep
and
another
combination
been
injections.
conditions very
the
practice and
keynotes and
quite well.
and
especially acute
how well
patient is
to clean
like.
who are
like water
the
of
am
always
medical
the time. I
and they
remedy
not exist
in 3x and
very poor
situation.
combinations by
observed and
of
Yes. Did
effects
negative
stopped
had to
also a few
made
as well
NEVER nor do
to
give
of
only
trenches in
adjusting my
study
strategies to
insurance
confidence
of these
that is
very well.
want
difficult
not be
means or
fashioned
in
explain much
don't
not
lines of
have had
characteristics
that this
it! The
not here
completely
the most
on
stronger,
depressed and
that resoled
for a long
find a
combos.
could not be
People
others
what
doctor
confused
to make
strong enough
end
now
have
people
should
to
homoeopathy yet
of them,
masses of
hard to
our name
Boenninghausen
would be
an
be
other
Greek
by
needs no more
Homoeopathic

[muthu kumar]

Good discussion and your point of view is well taken.
Thanks
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, David Little wrote:
and
to
sleep
Just
and you
eyes
reality
than the
it in
remedy and
problems are
that "just
that
years
thing
don't,
One cannot
such
my
They
etc.,
Eclectics.
you use a
about
should not
way
what they
something
are
experience
a
and be
their
Calling
the
they
taking
Allopathy
even
giving
curative
photo
School, which
then they
Homoeopathy
patient.
oneself
is not
I
telling
clear to
remedy -
most narrow
only
opposites cure
When a
they
clear and
you are
using
acupuncture is
to me it
Even
have and
sided modern
pathology
is
and
me as a
feeling about
any
well
regulating.
they are
outside the
allopathy,
position.
circles over
like it if
has less
are
disagree, OK?
needs no more
Homoeopathic

[muthu kumar]

this
gray

I do not have enough gray matter. There is already enough space
inside.

Also, it is wrong concept that remedies are slow to work...in acute
pillule
observed

I never said that I did not observe this or all I did was practise
combinations.
Thanks for your kind suggestions any way,

[Zaidee]

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 20:31:37 -0000
From: "hahnemannian2002"
Subject: Re: Asclepius in the Balance 1 Asclepius - the Circus Clown

combinations. For cold with productive cough I had a combination and
boils, abscesses etc.Each one of these used to be a >combination
antibiotics otherwise. These medicines were inexpensive, ( I used
medicines whereas the antibiotics by themselves would have been

Is it possible and workable to manufacture a combination of all the
homeopathic medicines in the market and make ONE...SOLELY ONE universal
combi...for every patient and every disease and disorder. I suppose, this
would save a lot of space on the medicine-shelf and the physician's gray
matter. Also, it is wrong concept that remedies are slow to work...in acute
conditions, SOMETIMES, the secondary action begins before the pillule
dissolves under the tongue. I can't understand why you haven't observed
this in your years long practice.
get? I can be the most classical wise "Homer " of homeopathy and >still if
I cannot give the patient relief ­ I can be blabbering ­ "oh this is
Hering's Law ( or even Hahnemann's law ) in action ­ you should >wait - but
still have these patients leave homeopathy. But there is a class of people
who would wait ­ probably more educated, more >health conscious- another
class which cannot due to so many circumstances.

IMHO, in spite the patient is having an aggravation, still, the patient
feels peace and harmony deep inside. And if this is so, you would not have
to calm down the patient to stick and stay with you. Our job, as
physicians, is to remedy the symptom-picture, by individualizing every
case. None in the world can guarantee relief for any patient, all we can do
is to work on easily perceptible principles for the patient and offer best
possible solution for the distress, to the best of our knowledge and faith
in homeopathy. There must had been many many patients of Hahneimann, for
whom he could not sought any relief...strangely, he did not switch his
genius ness towards something that was not homeopathy. And also, I believe
for sure, that he had that much intelligence to make a combination of some
one or two known remedies for those poor ailing patients. I doubt that none
of us in this century is more humbly-dedicated, spiritually-devoted to
wards the propagation of the system than was Hahneimann. We all have a big
question mark of bread and butter, and this offers a fascinating loophole
to the patient to pressurize us to compromise on the principles. It is none
of our domain to force someone to stick with us. If a patient leaves, that
is not a patient intended for us. I sometimes, get some of my patients back
to homeopathic treatment after they left it for the MAGICAL CURE from any
other pathy. However, it is better to educate that much, that in case, if
some old symptoms pop up, or some symptoms get aggravated, it would be only
for the time and not permanently. Symptoms aggravate mostly out of two main
reasons, the potency is either too high/too low, or something from the
extrinsic causes aggravated the remedial action. Even in chronic cases,
slight diet deviation causes no harm. Supersonic patients who prefer
gigabyte speed, no doubt, seldom stick to homeopathy, and it is not their
reaction towards homeopathy only. They seldom stick with an allopathic
physician, who is not prescribing them heavy antibiotics. So that wise, it
is the same with the allopathic doctors as with the homeopathic physicians.
hahnemannian2002 supposes that none of the steroids or cortizones have been
prescribed in the combination, but unless the combination is proved, there
remains a fatal doubt, that the ingredients can damage more gravely than a
steroidal preparation. Homeopathy is not against combinations, it is
against un-predictability of a medicinal combination. There is a huge list
of proved combinations like Pulsatilla, Alfalfa, and perhaps single
remedies are non-existing at least in the vegetable kingdom. But these were
proved as a combination. So, if you have combinations, please have some
provers too, and add to our knowledge of materia medica. None of any
healers would ever object to such use then.

Regarding the attitude of pharmacies, India is no exception. Some years
back, I contacted the Masood Pharmacy in Lahore, ( Pakistan Homeopathic
Stores and Hospital, Allama Iqbal Road, Lahore, Pakistan) the biggest in
Pakistan and asked them if they could make a trituration of a plant, I
intended to prove. The worthy and learned reply was,"Yes...we will. But on
the condition, if that plant is included in the Pakistan Homeopathic
Pharmacopeia." Satiringly, I whipped back and asked them if their
manufactured combinations are enlisted in the pharmacopeia? To which I did
not get a reply till this instant !! This attitude of money-making
manufacturing is questionable, but this does not make room for us to follow
the same filthy path which a pharmaceutical house is following. If you see
the whole city is going to jump in fire, what would you do....jump with
them just because they are jumping, or stop them or at least shout at some
of them...I leave the answer to your wit...smile!!! Take care and no offend
intended.

Lastly, just to soothe any harsh statement or phrase from my humble end:

A police officer came upon a terrible wreck where the driver and passenger
had been killed. As he looked upon the wreckage a little monkey came out of
the bush and hopped around the crashed car. The officer looked down at the
monkey and said "I wish you could talk." The monkey looked up at the
officer and shook his head up and down. "You can understand what I'm
saying?" asked the officer.

Again, the monkey shook his head up and down.
"Well, did you see this?"
"Yes," motioned the monkey.
"What happened?"
The monkey pretended to have a can in his hand and turned it up by his mouth.
"They were drinking?" asked the officer.
The monkey shakes his head "Yes."

"What else?"
The monkey pinched his fingers together and held them to his mouth.
"They were smoking marijuana?"
The monkey shakes his head "Yes."
"What else?"
The monkey motioned "kissing."
"They were kissing, too?" asked the astounded officer.
The monkey shakes his head "Yes."

"Now wait, you're saying your owners were drinking, smoking and kissing
before they wrecked."

The monkey shakes his head "Yes."
"What were you doing during all this?"
"Driving" motioned the monkey.

PLEASE DO NOT GIVE THE STEARING WHEEL OF HOMEOPATHY IN THE HANDS OF
PHARMACIES...SUCH MONKEYS...

I pray this titbit does not offend anyone...it is only as a goodwill
gesture!!!!

Sincerely,
Zaidee

[muthu kumar]

I would say Amen to that. In fact there is one case in Kent's Lesser
writings where he had given Mezereum to a case of eczema purely
worked out on the LOCAL symptoms, not even general. This is the
place where a specific and peculiar local symptom can get the
importance of a general symptom.
Shannon in one of my earlier postings I talked about CONTEXT which I
would think is important here. A patient with a new set of symptoms
need not always be treated for them if the context of where it
occurs does not warrant it - for example an old symptom that returns
or a new symptom that occurs but is part of the known pathogenesis
of the remedy or what could be expected if the disease disappears
following Herings Rules or a typical disease symptom that may occur
due to the natural progression of the disease and which may still
occur during the cure process after the drug we gave but occurs
early because the disease is going away by the action of the drug .
For example a post-influenzal depression may occur after we give the
remedy for influenza. But we need not wonder if there has been a
suppression because this might have occurred as part of the disease
process. It occurs early as part of the curative process. One
difference you might find is that the patient manages this
depression well,Within this context even though depression is a
major symptom of Will and should normally make us scurry for a
remedy, need not worry us as it is occurring within a known context
and the patient is managing it well. This is where "wait if you are
in doubt" is a very valid statement. One constitutional remedy does
not make a cure most of the time.

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, David Little wrote:
wrote:
sided pathology
e.g. the
the entire
once
expand as
where
this term to
of his
characteristic
at the
cases out
term
that on Kent.
in
believe that
acute,
the
know how to
sided
rather have
present
constitutional
to this
of
miasmatic
treat
information
to use an
room for
as well
interesting
forget
have
Homoeopathy
representations
in any
on this
arising out
minutus
consequential,
howsoever
with the
daily
needs no more
Homoeopathic