Hello Everyone,
Something interesting has just happened and being a student, I'm unsure of how to interpret it.
Last night, a fellow student of homeopathy called me to say that she was having a troublesome pain in her knees that she wanted a remedy for. Since her homeopath (our tutor) was out of town and not receiving calls, I agreed to give the case a shot. I took down the symptoms, thinking of it as an acute.
The symptoms were: cutting pain in L knee under the patella upon ascending stairs and also when straightening the leg when either sitting or lying down. She also mentioned that she was craving sweets and was constipated. With only those symptoms to go on. I decided on Calc. Carb. I suggested that she take one dose of 30c to see how she got on. I called her this morning to see how she was doing and she had quite a story to tell.
About 20 minutes after she had taken one pellet of 30c, she said she began to feel it working (which is quite unusual for her). ...She became averse to the idea of sweets and began feeling introverted, like she didn't want to go out. Then she began getting a headache. ---This is the interesting point because she's been having severe headaches (migraine) for at least the past 20 years. Her homeopath has tried several remedies but with no lasting relief. The best relief has been for 6 months after only the first dose of Carcinosin (I don't remember the potency). The headaches historically have been associated with overwork and stress.---So, anyway, after the dose of Calc. Carb., she began getting this chronic-type headache. She knew this was strange because she was on holiday from work and so was neither presently overworked nor stressed. It began at the base of the neck and worked its way up to the back of her head (as typically in the past). The pain was severe and was accompanied by nausea (again, as in the past). Normally, she can bear the pain, but this time, she had no patience with it and began to take Brufen to lesson the pain. She went to bed and slept a bit, then woke up with her face drenched with sweat (the back of her head was dry).
I asked her about the pain in her knee, at first she replied that it had improved, but then she straightened her leg and said, "no, it's still there".
She's been drinking coffee and taking mint this morning in an attempt to antidote it---as she's finding it all quite uncomfortable.
I looked to Vithoulkas', "Science of Homeopathy" to try to understand what this reaction means (by the way, this is precisely where I'm at in my studies). As far as I could ascertain, this reaction means that Calc.Carb. is the similimum, and technically she should just wait it out, without the antidoting. Of course, we intend to fully inform our tutor when she comes back at the end of the month, but in the meantime, anybody got any input to help us to understand exactly what has happened and what it implies?
With sincere regards to all,
Lisa Newlin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Between the two extremes of too much and too little we live on a bridge of swords."
---Edward C. Whitmont
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
need assistance interpreting a strong reaction to rx
-
Lisa Newlin
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
-
J.VENKATASUBRAMANIAN
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:00 pm
Re: need assistance interpreting a strong reaction to rx
Dear Lisa,
The new state is not calc c. Sweating of all parts except head is not calc
c.
The present state if repertorized, will go like this
boger's
Sweat: all parts except head: 4bell, 3merc,2 nux v, 5 rhus t, 5 samb,2 sec
c, 4 sep, 2 thu
head: internal: Neck, pain ascend from: 2amb,2 calc c, 2 canth, 2 carb v, 2
caus,3 gel,2 guai,2 hell,2 kalic,2 mang,2 pul, 4sang, 3 sil, val
Ociput extend to: 2 bell, 2 bry, 2 can, 2 cham, 2 chlor, 3 cimi, 2 cina, 2
cinnab, 2 cocl, 2 equi, 2 form, 2 kali b, 2 lilt,
2 naj, 2 natm, 2nit ac, 2 nux v, 2 pho, 2 phyt, 2 pic ac, 3 pru, 2 sep,2
sul, 3 thu
Nausea with:.2 calc, 4 caus, 5 cocl,3 kali c, 3 natm, 3 nit ac, 4 nuxv, 4
sil, 4 sul( among many)
lower extremiries: agg. stretching limb: 2 caus, 2 cina, 3 kali c, 2 nat m,2
nux v, 2 thu( among many).
The 'need to wait' is is probably not required (in my opinion). Calc might
have dug out a new state and this
requires a new remedy.
may be nux v.
There is a section concordances. In that, under calc c, we find for
localities, sensations, aggravation & related
remedies- nux v is (among our listed rx above) the topper . Also nux v is an
antidote for calc c. You also read up
nux v in all available mm with you.
Worth a try.
All the best
Venkat
The new state is not calc c. Sweating of all parts except head is not calc
c.
The present state if repertorized, will go like this
boger's
Sweat: all parts except head: 4bell, 3merc,2 nux v, 5 rhus t, 5 samb,2 sec
c, 4 sep, 2 thu
head: internal: Neck, pain ascend from: 2amb,2 calc c, 2 canth, 2 carb v, 2
caus,3 gel,2 guai,2 hell,2 kalic,2 mang,2 pul, 4sang, 3 sil, val
Ociput extend to: 2 bell, 2 bry, 2 can, 2 cham, 2 chlor, 3 cimi, 2 cina, 2
cinnab, 2 cocl, 2 equi, 2 form, 2 kali b, 2 lilt,
2 naj, 2 natm, 2nit ac, 2 nux v, 2 pho, 2 phyt, 2 pic ac, 3 pru, 2 sep,2
sul, 3 thu
Nausea with:.2 calc, 4 caus, 5 cocl,3 kali c, 3 natm, 3 nit ac, 4 nuxv, 4
sil, 4 sul( among many)
lower extremiries: agg. stretching limb: 2 caus, 2 cina, 3 kali c, 2 nat m,2
nux v, 2 thu( among many).
The 'need to wait' is is probably not required (in my opinion). Calc might
have dug out a new state and this
requires a new remedy.
may be nux v.
There is a section concordances. In that, under calc c, we find for
localities, sensations, aggravation & related
remedies- nux v is (among our listed rx above) the topper . Also nux v is an
antidote for calc c. You also read up
nux v in all available mm with you.
Worth a try.
All the best
Venkat
-
Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: need assistance interpreting a strong reaction to rx
if you think this IS the similimum, then you might want to change the potency. my personal take on homeopathy is that
we want the healing to be as gentle as possible. if the reaction is so strong, i begin to think the potency may be wrong
and then change it. i usually go down in potency to back off the reaction.
good luck
tanya
we want the healing to be as gentle as possible. if the reaction is so strong, i begin to think the potency may be wrong
and then change it. i usually go down in potency to back off the reaction.
good luck
tanya
Re: need assistance interpreting a strong reaction to rx
In a word - wait.
In a few more words - why do you see this an an acute?
Why so few symptoms? Where is the rest of the case? Is the craving for
sweets equally acute, ditto for the constipation?
What is it that she is finding uncomfortable - the knee problem or the
remedy reaction? What is so bad that she feels the need to antidote
(probably has by now anyway)?
If everyone that had a remedy reaction started to antidote we would be
having a hard time - is there anything else going on here. Why would she let
you take her case and prescribe but then antidote - this doesn't seem to be
a comfortable situation.
You ask about implications, which I think are more basic. You have to be
careful about treating friends, colleagues and relatives (the distance
required for being the unprejudiced observer is sometimes not enough). The
case isn't full enough, whether it be chronic or acute. Calcarea doesn't
often begin its action so quickly but it can happen, even in an acute. You
are likely to get a number of replies all giving different suggestions - how
will you deal with this?
On a less basic level, you have prescribed a remedy which she has obviously
reacted to on an emotional level as well as a physical one. Part of this
reaction relates to a return of old symptoms. Some of the emotional
reactions don't sound very good, i.e. becoming introverted, but if the case
had been more fully taking you would find it easier to put this into
context.
There doesn't yet appear to be any amelioration and I think your next step
hangs on the fact that she has had a return of the headaches. You will have
to keep a watch on this case and if the newer symptoms persist or the
headache becomes intolerable then you might have to prescribe again. If
there is any sign of improvement then I would definitely wait and try and
encourage her to see this through.
Which of the case analysis in GV are you likening this to?
Best, Joy
www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 26/3/04 10:24 AM, Lisa Newlin at ajasemmm@emirates.net.ae wrote:
Hello Everyone,
I took down the symptoms, thinking of it as an acute.
The symptoms were: cutting pain in L knee under the patella upon ascending
stairs and also when straightening the leg when either sitting or lying
down. She also mentioned that she was craving sweets and was constipated.
With only those symptoms to go on. I decided on Calc. Carb. I suggested
that she take one dose of 30c to see how she got on.
About 20 minutes after she had taken one pellet of 30c, she said she began
to feel it working (which is quite unusual for her). ...She became averse
to the idea of sweets and began feeling introverted, like she didn't want to
go out. Then she began getting a headache. ---This is the interesting point
because she's been having severe headaches (migraine) for at least the past
20 years. The headaches historically have been associated with overwork
and stress.---So, anyway, after the dose of Calc. Carb., she began getting
this chronic-type headache. She knew this was strange because she was on
holiday from work and so was neither presently overworked nor stressed. It
began at the base of the neck and worked its way up to the back of her head
(as typically in the past). The pain was severe and was accompanied by
nausea (again, as in the past). Normally, she can bear the pain, but this
time, she had no patience with it and began to take Brufen to lesson the
pain. She went to bed and slept a bit, then woke up with her face drenched
with sweat (the back of her head was dry).
I asked her about the pain in her knee, at first she replied that it had
improved, but then she straightened her leg and said, "no, it's still
there".
She's been drinking coffee and taking mint this morning in an attempt to
antidote it---as she's finding it all quite uncomfortable.
I looked to Vithoulkas', "Science of Homeopathy" to try to understand what
this reaction means (by the way, this is precisely where I'm at in my
studies). As far as I could ascertain, this reaction means that Calc.Carb.
is the similimum, and technically she should just wait it out, without the
antidoting. Of course, we intend to fully inform our tutor when she comes
back at the end of the month, but in the meantime, anybody got any input to
help us to understand exactly what has happened and what it implies?
With sincere regards to all,
Lisa Newlin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In a few more words - why do you see this an an acute?
Why so few symptoms? Where is the rest of the case? Is the craving for
sweets equally acute, ditto for the constipation?
What is it that she is finding uncomfortable - the knee problem or the
remedy reaction? What is so bad that she feels the need to antidote
(probably has by now anyway)?
If everyone that had a remedy reaction started to antidote we would be
having a hard time - is there anything else going on here. Why would she let
you take her case and prescribe but then antidote - this doesn't seem to be
a comfortable situation.
You ask about implications, which I think are more basic. You have to be
careful about treating friends, colleagues and relatives (the distance
required for being the unprejudiced observer is sometimes not enough). The
case isn't full enough, whether it be chronic or acute. Calcarea doesn't
often begin its action so quickly but it can happen, even in an acute. You
are likely to get a number of replies all giving different suggestions - how
will you deal with this?
On a less basic level, you have prescribed a remedy which she has obviously
reacted to on an emotional level as well as a physical one. Part of this
reaction relates to a return of old symptoms. Some of the emotional
reactions don't sound very good, i.e. becoming introverted, but if the case
had been more fully taking you would find it easier to put this into
context.
There doesn't yet appear to be any amelioration and I think your next step
hangs on the fact that she has had a return of the headaches. You will have
to keep a watch on this case and if the newer symptoms persist or the
headache becomes intolerable then you might have to prescribe again. If
there is any sign of improvement then I would definitely wait and try and
encourage her to see this through.
Which of the case analysis in GV are you likening this to?
Best, Joy
www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 26/3/04 10:24 AM, Lisa Newlin at ajasemmm@emirates.net.ae wrote:
Hello Everyone,
I took down the symptoms, thinking of it as an acute.
The symptoms were: cutting pain in L knee under the patella upon ascending
stairs and also when straightening the leg when either sitting or lying
down. She also mentioned that she was craving sweets and was constipated.
With only those symptoms to go on. I decided on Calc. Carb. I suggested
that she take one dose of 30c to see how she got on.
About 20 minutes after she had taken one pellet of 30c, she said she began
to feel it working (which is quite unusual for her). ...She became averse
to the idea of sweets and began feeling introverted, like she didn't want to
go out. Then she began getting a headache. ---This is the interesting point
because she's been having severe headaches (migraine) for at least the past
20 years. The headaches historically have been associated with overwork
and stress.---So, anyway, after the dose of Calc. Carb., she began getting
this chronic-type headache. She knew this was strange because she was on
holiday from work and so was neither presently overworked nor stressed. It
began at the base of the neck and worked its way up to the back of her head
(as typically in the past). The pain was severe and was accompanied by
nausea (again, as in the past). Normally, she can bear the pain, but this
time, she had no patience with it and began to take Brufen to lesson the
pain. She went to bed and slept a bit, then woke up with her face drenched
with sweat (the back of her head was dry).
I asked her about the pain in her knee, at first she replied that it had
improved, but then she straightened her leg and said, "no, it's still
there".
She's been drinking coffee and taking mint this morning in an attempt to
antidote it---as she's finding it all quite uncomfortable.
I looked to Vithoulkas', "Science of Homeopathy" to try to understand what
this reaction means (by the way, this is precisely where I'm at in my
studies). As far as I could ascertain, this reaction means that Calc.Carb.
is the similimum, and technically she should just wait it out, without the
antidoting. Of course, we intend to fully inform our tutor when she comes
back at the end of the month, but in the meantime, anybody got any input to
help us to understand exactly what has happened and what it implies?
With sincere regards to all,
Lisa Newlin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Ellen Madono
- Posts: 2012
- Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:00 pm
Re: need assistance interpreting a strong reaction to rx
Dear Joy,
If she antidoted the case, will Lisa be able to give her the remedy at the same dosage? How can she be sure that she antidoted it? Nothing ameliorated so nothing could be undone by the antidote.
I just took my fellow student's case. It took so much more time than the case of a stranger. Through every step in the case taking, I had to convince her of that my thoughts were well grounded. I had to site the literature, made her read it and argue back and forth. We finally came up with Ars so maybe that added to the difficulty. Also, I had to very sternly tell her that I couldn't bother with her case unless she promised to follow through.
Blessings,
Ellen
If she antidoted the case, will Lisa be able to give her the remedy at the same dosage? How can she be sure that she antidoted it? Nothing ameliorated so nothing could be undone by the antidote.
I just took my fellow student's case. It took so much more time than the case of a stranger. Through every step in the case taking, I had to convince her of that my thoughts were well grounded. I had to site the literature, made her read it and argue back and forth. We finally came up with Ars so maybe that added to the difficulty. Also, I had to very sternly tell her that I couldn't bother with her case unless she promised to follow through.
Blessings,
Ellen
-
Lisa Newlin
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: need assistance interpreting a strong reaction to rx
-
Hi again...
Ellen, thanks for appreciating my position as a friend trying to take
a case... Joy, you asked what case analysis in GV I was referring
to... well I was looking at Appendix B in the back of the book for
various reactions to the administered remedy, specifically, p. 304.
Thank you all who took the time to respond. It's interesting to see
what your input was. I haven't spoken to the friend again yet, but as
far as I'm concerned, we'll just let things alone and tell our tutor
the whole glorious story when she arrives.
This has been enough excitement to do me for quite a while!!
Be well.
Lisa
Hi again...
Ellen, thanks for appreciating my position as a friend trying to take
a case... Joy, you asked what case analysis in GV I was referring
to... well I was looking at Appendix B in the back of the book for
various reactions to the administered remedy, specifically, p. 304.
Thank you all who took the time to respond. It's interesting to see
what your input was. I haven't spoken to the friend again yet, but as
far as I'm concerned, we'll just let things alone and tell our tutor
the whole glorious story when she arrives.
This has been enough excitement to do me for quite a while!!
Be well.
Lisa
Re: need assistance interpreting a strong reaction to rx
If the remedy is antidoted then an agreement would have to be sought to
continue, in my opinion and then the case should be taken completely again.
You can never be sure if you have antidoted a remedy but it would be more
than coincidence if the remedy reaction ceased at the same time. A remedy
reaction includes aggravations as well as ameliorations.
I personally believe that all teaching institutions should provide and allow
adequate clinical experience that resemble the 'real' case taking situation
- the discussion could come afterwards.
Best, Joy
www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 26/3/04 2:26 PM, Ellen Madono at ellen.madono@verizon.net wrote:
Dear Joy,
If she antidoted the case, will Lisa be able to give her the remedy at the
same dosage? How can she be sure that she antidoted it? Nothing
ameliorated so nothing could be undone by the antidote.
I just took my fellow student's case. It took so much more time than the
case of a stranger. Through every step in the case taking, I had to
convince her of that my thoughts were well grounded. I had to site the
literature, made her read it and argue back and forth. We finally came up
with Ars so maybe that added to the difficulty. Also, I had to very sternly
tell her that I couldn't bother with her case unless she promised to follow
through.
Blessings,
Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
continue, in my opinion and then the case should be taken completely again.
You can never be sure if you have antidoted a remedy but it would be more
than coincidence if the remedy reaction ceased at the same time. A remedy
reaction includes aggravations as well as ameliorations.
I personally believe that all teaching institutions should provide and allow
adequate clinical experience that resemble the 'real' case taking situation
- the discussion could come afterwards.
Best, Joy
www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 26/3/04 2:26 PM, Ellen Madono at ellen.madono@verizon.net wrote:
Dear Joy,
If she antidoted the case, will Lisa be able to give her the remedy at the
same dosage? How can she be sure that she antidoted it? Nothing
ameliorated so nothing could be undone by the antidote.
I just took my fellow student's case. It took so much more time than the
case of a stranger. Through every step in the case taking, I had to
convince her of that my thoughts were well grounded. I had to site the
literature, made her read it and argue back and forth. We finally came up
with Ars so maybe that added to the difficulty. Also, I had to very sternly
tell her that I couldn't bother with her case unless she promised to follow
through.
Blessings,
Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Allen Coniglio
- Posts: 429
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: need assistance interpreting a strong reaction to rx
The first remedy I ever took caused an intense aggravation and I tried to
antidote it. That would have been a mistake because it was the similimum and
after several days, cleared the problem that I had presented with and which
I had suffered increasingly from for the previous 10 years. I would advise
patience unless all are sure that you have missed the mark.
Allen
antidote it. That would have been a mistake because it was the similimum and
after several days, cleared the problem that I had presented with and which
I had suffered increasingly from for the previous 10 years. I would advise
patience unless all are sure that you have missed the mark.
Allen