Detoxification questions

[Ellen Madono]

Dear Dr. Rozencwajg and Julian and whoever else could answer,

I am just a student, so I could not argue about homeotoxicology,
however, there are a number of questions that confuse me concerning toxins.

The following is what I believe to be true concerning toxins: If a patient
is sensitive to a toxic material, the symptoms of a particular poisoning
will appear. The symptoms that will not necessarily correspond to the
standard toxicological description of the materials to which the patient is
sensitive. As always, the whole complex of symptoms is the basis for
prescription. From a classical homeopathic perspective, we cannot draw a
one to one correspondence between the toxin and the remedy. In this case,
even, knowing the exact cause of the poisioning may not be important.

Here are some imagined situations where perhaps detoxification must take
place first before homeopathy. These examples are not based on any
experience:
1.) Where similar to an epidemic disease, a whole population is polluted by
the same toxin. Before individualized homeopathic work can take place,
detoxification must occur. Perhaps there are not enough doctors around or
action must be swift.
I am thinking of the toxic material as something similar to a neck injury in
epilepsy. Physical or energetic treatment of the neck is more direct than
homeopathy. In this case, mass poisoning should be anticdoted or chelated
first, if that is possible. Are we out of the realm of Classical homeopathy
here? Also, a homeopathic remedy could be powerful but it may differ from
the raw material antidote?
2.) Where in the case of extreme weakness, the patient needs to slowly
detoxify before he is able to withstand homeopathic aggravations such as
massive outbreaks on the skin if given sulphur. Can this be handled in the
realm of classical homeopathy?
3.) Where symptoms are lacking because the individual is unable to
communicate and relatives are not helpful. Or the patient is an animal and
therefore is difficult to interview. Yet, the doctor know for sure that
poisoning took place. Can this be handled in the realm of classical
homeopathy?
4.) As a researcher such as Vermeulen (his taped Lectures on "Interviewing a
Substance" carried by Dana Ulman's site, homeopathic.com), there are sources
of toxicity that may not have existed 150 years ago. Before provings are
done, evidence of symptoms might be gathered if only to suggest that
provings need to be done. This is definitely classical homeopathy, but it
could be used by other perspectives as well.

Toxins can lead to not having enough of a particular essential element in
the body chemistry. The classical homeopath may focus on stimulating the
metabolism of the element that is lacking. This then becomes a very
different approach to the problem. The toxin is ignored. Just by studying
the symptoms, one may be doing this without knowing it. Would it matter?
Here I can't seem to draw the line between tissue salts and classical
homeopathy. The symptoms in the books look so similar. Maybe it's the
explanation that is different.

Respectfully,

Ellen Madono

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Ellen,

One quick start on an answer: If you select on the overall symptom picture
(which might include both symptoms of the poisoning and symptoms peculiar to
the patient), you are prescribing homeopathically, and can expect healing to
include *both* detoxification *and* further/deeper healing beyond that.

If you prescribe potentized version of the presumed toxin, you are
prescribing isopathically (or tautopathically? I get mixed up...). Often
this is effective, but would tend not to heal anything beyond the poisoning
itself.

And as you say, effective homeopathic prescribing does not require knowing
what (if anything) the toxin was.

The tissue salt pictures contain *part* of the homeopathic picture of the
corresponding element; no real need to separate them, except to know that
each salt also has a deeper and broader picture which may come into play
with higher potencies and/or an appropriately "susceptible" (i.e. "sensitive
to it") patient.

Shannon

on 3/6/04 11:34 AM, Ellen Madono at ellen.madono@verizon.net wrote:

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

From personal experience from many cases:

No matter what is called a toxin (exogenous, endogenous, metal, chemical, industrial,.....), if the body is overloaded with it or very sensitive to it, the function of all organs, at all levels (physical and energetical) is perturbed.

Toxins are "safely" stocked in places where they can least harm, often the fat and some organs.
The Simillimum will often cause a release of those toxins as the stimulated tissues tend to get rid of unwanted and harmful substances.
This release translates through a temporary raise in blood level of the toxins until they are eliminated through kidney, liver, intestine ans skin.
If those organs are not functioning properly, the blood level becomes too high and you have those symptoms of terrible aggravations that are well described, until the harmful substances are once again set aside "safely" and you are back to the previous situation, with a disgusted and scared patient.

This is simple physiology, not homeopathic theory, OK?!! (it is the chelation theory BTW....)

So, if and when you suspect a toxic overload and/or a dysfunction of organs, the safe bet is to correct the function of those organs (drainage and organotherapy), stimulate the body to release the toxins (detox) then retake the case which will then appear with the proper patient's symptoms and not the poisoning symptoms.
Makes sense? angain this is biology, physiology, toxicology...............

Where the heated discussion starts is at level of semantics; as it is possible to do drainage, detox and organotherapy with potentised substances, it has been called homeopathy. It is not. it is,....well drainage, detox and organotherapy with ultradiluted microdoses of energised substances.
Also after such a treatment and before homeopathy, the physiology of the patient might become so much healthier that it solves on its own the main complaint of the patient who then claims that "homeopathy using mixes of different substances" has cured him.
Semantics again.
Homotoxicology does that and does it well. It is homotoxicology.
All of them are instruments in the ultimate goal as decribed in Aph 1: "to cure the patient".

Did I answer your question?

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"

[Ellen Madono]

Dear Dr. Rozencwajg,

I am feeling much clearer. (Hope it is more than momentary). I get this kind of detoxification result from every therapy that I use (yoga, shiatsu, meditation). Now with homeopathy, the results are more predictable, so avoiding the horrible aggravations is even more important.

The physiological explanation is the most straight forward.

Thank-you,
Ellen Madono

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Leilanae]

Dr.J Rozencwajg wrote:

[Angls4Hope]

Dr Rozencwajg I have the utmost respect for you AND your comments....I love
your philosophy of treating with alternative medicine (Homeopathic)....you
remind me so much of my own personal Homeopathic MD and his renowned treatment
process, which I have had the privilege of receiving since 1977...

Were you ever able to make contact with him?? It's been more than a couple
of years but you wanted to know more about his Dermatron testing methods?? What
I like about that method is you don't have to rummage through remedies to fit
what you are treating. He has never been wrong with me and I have been his
patient since 1977.....He has patients from all over the world and USA....

He recently diagnosed me with Lyme's as well as Babesia and Ehrlichia and
within 4 short weeks my numbers are already dropping from the remedies that are
made up personally for my body. I'm also taking Samento and using the Theramag
machine and the Photo-tron Genie.....unbelievable improvement. I also am
doing two IV's a week of VitC (50 grams), Magnesium, and all the B's.....I also
have a vitamin protocol that changes as numbers drop and I improve.

I hope you were able to make contact with him.....let me know if there is
anything I can do to help....

PLEASEEEEEee keep posting in your usual manner, as I learn from you.

Keep a smile on your face, love in your heart and walk with the angels,
holding hand in the "chain of love"......

Angel Huggzz
Linda or Angel

http://www.dream-tool.net/tools/message ... hepheimers (Msg Board)

www.hepheimers.com (website)

In reference to your comment:

è From personal experience from many cases: No
è matter what is called a toxin (exogenous, endogenous,
è metal, chemical, industrial,.....), if the body is
è overloaded with it or very sensitive to it, the function of
è all organs, at all levels (physical and energetical) is
è perturbed. Toxins are "safely" stocked in places where
è they can least harm, often the fat and some organs.
è The Simillimum will often cause a release of those
è toxins as the stimulated tissues tend to get rid of
è unwanted and harmful substances. This release
è translates through a temporary raise in blood level of
è the toxins until they are eliminated through kidney,
è liver, intestine ans skin. If those organs are not
è functioning properly, the blood level becomes too high
è and you have those symptoms of terrible aggravations
è that are well described, until the harmful substances
è are once again set aside "safely" and you are back to
è the previous situation, with a disgusted and scared
è patient. This is simple physiology, not homeopathic
è theory, OK?!! (it is the chelation theory BTW....) So, if
è and when you suspect a toxic overload and/or a
è dysfunction of organs, the safe bet is to correct the
è function of those organs (drainage and organotherapy),
è stimulate the body to release the toxins (detox) then
è retake the case which will then appear with the proper
è patient's symptoms and not the poisoning symptoms.
è Makes sense? angain this is biology, physiology,
è toxicology............... Where the heated discussion
è starts is at level of semantics; as it is possible to do
è drainage, detox and organotherapy with potentised
è substances, it has been called homeopathy. It is not. it
è is,....well drainage, detox and organotherapy with
è ultradiluted microdoses of energised substances. Also
è after such a treatment and before homeopathy, the
è physiology of the patient might become so much
è healthier that it solves on its own the main complaint of
è the patient who then claims that "homeopathy using
è mixes of different substances" has cured him.
è Semantics again. Homotoxicology does that and does
è it well. It is homotoxicology. All of them are
è instruments in the ultimate goal as decribed in Aph 1:
è "to cure the patient". Did I answer your question? Dr.
è J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD. "The greatest enemy of any
è science is a closed mind"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

I never could contact this person, then became busy doing other nonsensical things like having a life......... )

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"

[Julian Winston]

At 9:35 AM +1300 3/8/04, Dr.J Rozencwajg wrote:

Must say that Dr. Joe uses a number of "alternative" modalities in
his practice, and has the ability to know which is homeopathic and
which is not.
Again. What you describe is the use of potentized substances for
treating illness. That ALONE is NOT homeopathy. The Dermatron machine
is NOT homeopathy. The giving of remedies determined by the Dermatron
machine is NOT homeopathy.

I am not saying that such treatment cannot be beneficial. Just that
it is NOT within the definition of homeopathy.

And a number of classical prescribers I know have found that the
prescriptions developed by the use of the Dermatron are suppressive,
since the machine seems to look at the topmost disturbance and not
the underlying one.

Many folks who use Dermatron machines call themselves homeopaths.
Unless the prescription is based upon the principle of SIMILARS it is
not homeopathy.

JW