Homoeopathy - Placebo - Scientific?

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Soroush Ebrahimi
Moderator
Posts: 4510
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2002 11:00 pm

Homoeopathy - Placebo - Scientific?

Post by Soroush Ebrahimi »

Dear Dr Waqar - Salaams and the blessings of the Holy Month be with you and
yours.

The columnist from The GUARDIAN in UK was trying to say that Homoeopathic
remedies were placebo.

What I explained to this man was that this assumption was incorrect because
we know for sure that it worked on animals and babies and you cannot fool
animals or babies by the placebo effect. In fact I referred him to a BBC2
programme broadcast from early 1990's which showed exactly this point.

Then as the matter progressed, I challenged him to take part in a
'reproving'.
He expressed fears that he may be poisoned!

So the protocol I proposed to him would runs as follows: (He chickened out
but wrote about the challenge in his column so I give him that!)

We obtain an Agreement from his editor that the results in full will be
published by his news paper.

I choose a remedy. In his presence I open one of my remedy bottles (at 30C),
put about half of the contents in to a new bottle, give one bottle to him to
have tested at an independent lab to ensure he was not being poisoned and
the other half we would place in a mini safe, I hold the safe, he holds the
key or we together lodge it at a bank until he has the material tested and
is happy to proceed.

He has a medical by his own GP to show that he is in a good state of health.
A medical certificate to be issued.

When he is ready, he would have to bring the lab test results and the
medical certificate and attend with a witness from his side - then a
colleague and I check him to ensure he is fit for the ordeal of a
re-proving.

We get him to sign various consent forms and agreement to take part in a
proving with all risks for him.

Based on materia medica, we lodge the predicted symptoms in an envelope and
seal it.

We collect the remedy from the bank together and then give him the remedy
fairly frequently until he starts to show symptoms. [The remedy of our
choice would have affects such as severe pain or diarrhoea and vomiting]
:-))

We record the symptoms as they develop.

When he has had enough, we then ask him to sign the record of the symptoms
he produces. Then the witness would sign it too.
Then we open the envelope with the predictions.
Then various signatures are collected on whether the prediction matched the
symptoms exhibited.

Then if necessary, we would anti-dote the remedy and stop the proving as
much as possible.

Rgds
Soroush
"Dr. Waqar Taji" |
To: "Soroush Ebrahimi"
Subject: Personal request
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:38:02 +0530
Dear Dr.Soroush,
I would like to go thru your article which you wrote in response to a
columnist in UK who was trying to discredit homeopathy.
Please mail it to me if it is not inconvenient.
Sincerely,
Waqar Taji
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Julian Winston
Posts: 622
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm

Re: Homoeopathy - Placebo - Scientific?

Post by Julian Winston »

At 2:12 PM +0000 11/19/03, Finrod wrote:

[snip]
AVOID giving him Aresnicum!!
[snip]

A good protocol.
What remedies were you thinking about?

It's a really tricky one. You want to, of course, keep it
ultra-molecular (i.e., above a 12C) so there really isn't anything
there to test...
BUT... you want to make sure he (or whoever) WILL have a reaction--
so you have to select something to which they will be succeptible.
When I did a Glonoine proving with our class a number of years ago, I
did it with a 12X. Most people had symptoms. ONE out of the 15 had NO
symptoms-- and he took ten tablets at 3 minute intervals. So *he* had
no succeptibility to the remedy.

You really should go with something which has immediate symptoms
(like aconite) rather than a longer one (like gelsemium).

I know of someone (their identity is lost in the fog of the past) who
tried a similar experiment with someone who was debunking homeopathy.
They gave him arsenicum 30 and he went into a panic, thought he was
bring poisoned, and ran to the hospital emergency room to have his
stomach pumped. There was no way of convincing him that his episode
was a *result* of the remedy and not of the "bad food" he ate that
evening.
People will see what they want.
You have to make sure that the effects of the proving are clear to the prover.

Best!

JW


Dale Moss
Posts: 1544
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:00 pm

Re: Homoeopathy - Placebo - Scientific?

Post by Dale Moss »

Alcoholus might make a good remedy to use in this kind of trial. Many are susceptible -- and the effects are immediate and unmistakable!

Peace,
Cinnabar


snoozybun
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm

Re: Homoeopathy - Placebo - Scientific?

Post by snoozybun »

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Julian Winston wrote:
What fun! While researching Theridion, I thought here would be a good diet pill in the proving -- aversion to chocolate and dancing
frantically! Ha! I'm kidding. Really.


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