I've been lurking for a while but not posted before.
I recently decided to consult a classical h/path as opposed to an allopath.
I feel a little out of my depth here as most of you seem to be h/paths
and I am but a humble "patient" but I am eager to learn more.
The pre-amble for the group reads "for the promotion of Homoeopathy and
educational benefit of its members", I hope this includes "end-users"
if you excuse the terminology?!
I'm awaiting the arrival of a book which I have been recommended
to read but, in the meantime, I would like to ask a total newbie question
if I may. I'm curious to know how long a remedy goes on working once
taken, how and why?
Is it possible/probable that once initial symptoms have seemingly ameliorated
others may appear following a repeat dose of the same remedy?
So much to learn ...
peace
Jane x
Total Newbie
-
Paul Booyse
- Posts: 310
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: Total Newbie
Hi Jane,
taken, how and why?
Depends on the relationship between
- the intensity of the disease and the potency administered
- the nature of the disease (chronic or acute)
- the size of the dose
Actually, what we perceive as remedy action is split into two parts.
- Duration of remedy acting - this is where the remedy acts as a similar but
stronger (artificial) disease on the naturally diseased vital force. Only
the stronger disease can influence/disturb the function of the vital force,
so at this point the influence of the weaker natural disease is overcome.
The remedy can be seen as a relatively short acting influence, so after the
natural disease is overcome, the remedy disease soon fades (provided dosing
is short, e.g. single dose and minimal in quantity) . Now the vital force
is able to return to its healthy function (read aphorism 9 in the Organon.).
At this stage there may be pathology from the disease state as well as from
the neglected functions while the vital force was functioning in a distorted
way. Which leads to the next part:
- the recuperative phase when the vital force is repairing the damage done,
restoring health, attaining homeostasis. There is no remedy action here
although we commonly think "the remedy is still working because the state of
health is improving".
That is a nutshell explanation based on Hahnemann. Like treats like. There
are some considerations. It may happen that the initial dose is not quite
strong enough compared to the disease state, so it has some impact, or the
disease is so deeply established as a chronic disease state, - there is an
initial recuperation and then the disease state re-establishes, and then the
homeopath sees a return of the disease and repeats the remedy, maybe then at
a higher potency.
This is the mechanics for a centessimal kind of approach - single dose and
wait. It is slightly different for an LM potency, where the potency is
repeated getting gradually stronger. The nett effect is to slowly overcome
the disease state- starting at a low level and gradually increasing, rather
than trying to blast it in one go with stronger (remedy) influence.
? How - the remedy acts by being an artificial disease, a disturbance to the
vital force.
? Why - if two influences affect the vital force the stronger one wins, the
other will dissipate. The remedy is applied either as a stronger force or
as a gradually increasing force to repel/overcome the natural disease state.
ameliorated
if we assume that the symptoms have ameliorated to mean they are cured, then
a repeat dose may produce proving symptoms. Just the same when you give a
dose to a "healthy" person.
If the remedy was not the simillimum (similar acting) then the symptoms may
be ameliorated, but not cured. This is described as a dissimilar action,
and the old symptoms of the disease may return of their own, or proving
symtoms of the "dissimilar" remedy state may become intensified, or a mix of
both.
Regards,
Paul Booyse
taken, how and why?
Depends on the relationship between
- the intensity of the disease and the potency administered
- the nature of the disease (chronic or acute)
- the size of the dose
Actually, what we perceive as remedy action is split into two parts.
- Duration of remedy acting - this is where the remedy acts as a similar but
stronger (artificial) disease on the naturally diseased vital force. Only
the stronger disease can influence/disturb the function of the vital force,
so at this point the influence of the weaker natural disease is overcome.
The remedy can be seen as a relatively short acting influence, so after the
natural disease is overcome, the remedy disease soon fades (provided dosing
is short, e.g. single dose and minimal in quantity) . Now the vital force
is able to return to its healthy function (read aphorism 9 in the Organon.).
At this stage there may be pathology from the disease state as well as from
the neglected functions while the vital force was functioning in a distorted
way. Which leads to the next part:
- the recuperative phase when the vital force is repairing the damage done,
restoring health, attaining homeostasis. There is no remedy action here
although we commonly think "the remedy is still working because the state of
health is improving".
That is a nutshell explanation based on Hahnemann. Like treats like. There
are some considerations. It may happen that the initial dose is not quite
strong enough compared to the disease state, so it has some impact, or the
disease is so deeply established as a chronic disease state, - there is an
initial recuperation and then the disease state re-establishes, and then the
homeopath sees a return of the disease and repeats the remedy, maybe then at
a higher potency.
This is the mechanics for a centessimal kind of approach - single dose and
wait. It is slightly different for an LM potency, where the potency is
repeated getting gradually stronger. The nett effect is to slowly overcome
the disease state- starting at a low level and gradually increasing, rather
than trying to blast it in one go with stronger (remedy) influence.
? How - the remedy acts by being an artificial disease, a disturbance to the
vital force.
? Why - if two influences affect the vital force the stronger one wins, the
other will dissipate. The remedy is applied either as a stronger force or
as a gradually increasing force to repel/overcome the natural disease state.
ameliorated
if we assume that the symptoms have ameliorated to mean they are cured, then
a repeat dose may produce proving symptoms. Just the same when you give a
dose to a "healthy" person.
If the remedy was not the simillimum (similar acting) then the symptoms may
be ameliorated, but not cured. This is described as a dissimilar action,
and the old symptoms of the disease may return of their own, or proving
symtoms of the "dissimilar" remedy state may become intensified, or a mix of
both.
Regards,
Paul Booyse
-
Julian Winston
- Posts: 622
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: Total Newbie
At 2:27 PM -0400 10/13/03, WilJane56@aol.com wrote:
Which book?
The answer is, sorry to say, the general "homeopathic" answer-- "It depends..."
It depends on the match of the remedy to you (the exact simillimum),
your level susceptibility, and lots that goes on in your life.
You ask "how and why". The remedy does NOTHING to you other than set
the works in motion to get sorted, and let the dynamis "rule with
unbounded sway." How long you can last in that state is
indeterminate. The effect of the remedy can last for a few minutes to
years.
The *remedy* does not go on working. *Your response to the remedy*
goes on working.
Why repeat when it did the job? NEVER repeat if the action is holding.
You bet!
JW
Which book?
The answer is, sorry to say, the general "homeopathic" answer-- "It depends..."
It depends on the match of the remedy to you (the exact simillimum),
your level susceptibility, and lots that goes on in your life.
You ask "how and why". The remedy does NOTHING to you other than set
the works in motion to get sorted, and let the dynamis "rule with
unbounded sway." How long you can last in that state is
indeterminate. The effect of the remedy can last for a few minutes to
years.
The *remedy* does not go on working. *Your response to the remedy*
goes on working.
Why repeat when it did the job? NEVER repeat if the action is holding.
You bet!
JW
-
shade_lover5603
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: Total Newbie
In response to my question:
>
Paul typed:
>
Mmm this is interesting.
I was given a remedy, 30c strength, to take before bed one day followed by
another the following morning. I experienced a period of amelioration
followed by a return of symptoms with some additional ones.
One month later I was advised to dose again with the original remedy but
now have some completely different symptoms which are quite worrying.
Thanks for your explanation Paul.
peace
Jane x
>
Paul typed:
>
Mmm this is interesting.
I was given a remedy, 30c strength, to take before bed one day followed by
another the following morning. I experienced a period of amelioration
followed by a return of symptoms with some additional ones.
One month later I was advised to dose again with the original remedy but
now have some completely different symptoms which are quite worrying.
Thanks for your explanation Paul.
peace
Jane x
-
shade_lover5603
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: Total Newbie
Hi Julian
Thanks for the clarity of your response.
Newbies don't know all the jargon!
J] I'm awaiting the arrival of a book which I have been recommended
J] to read
JW] Which book?
"Science of Homoeopathy"
J] So much to learn ...
JW] You bet!
Like I said, I am a patient, an end-user, but having made a conscious
decision to venture into the world of h/pathy for treatment I want
to learn more. Everyone has to start somewhere ey?
J] Is it possible/probable that once initial symptoms have seemingly
J] ameliorated others may appear following a repeat dose of the same
J] remedy?
JW] Why repeat when it did the job? NEVER repeat if the action is holding.
Sorry, didn't make myself clear here. What I should have said is "once
initial symptoms have ameliorated for a time but reappeared"
Paul answered : "If the remedy was not the simillimum (similar acting)
then the symptoms may be ameliorated, but not cured. This is described
as a dissimilar action, and the old symptoms of the disease may return of
their own, or proving symtoms of the "dissimilar" remedy state may become
intensified, or a mix of both. "
This would appear to be the case with me ...
So, what action would be wise in these circumstances?
Thanks Julian.
I look forward to learning much more.
peace
Jane x
Thanks for the clarity of your response.
Newbies don't know all the jargon!
J] I'm awaiting the arrival of a book which I have been recommended
J] to read
JW] Which book?
"Science of Homoeopathy"
J] So much to learn ...
JW] You bet!
Like I said, I am a patient, an end-user, but having made a conscious
decision to venture into the world of h/pathy for treatment I want
to learn more. Everyone has to start somewhere ey?
J] Is it possible/probable that once initial symptoms have seemingly
J] ameliorated others may appear following a repeat dose of the same
J] remedy?
JW] Why repeat when it did the job? NEVER repeat if the action is holding.
Sorry, didn't make myself clear here. What I should have said is "once
initial symptoms have ameliorated for a time but reappeared"
Paul answered : "If the remedy was not the simillimum (similar acting)
then the symptoms may be ameliorated, but not cured. This is described
as a dissimilar action, and the old symptoms of the disease may return of
their own, or proving symtoms of the "dissimilar" remedy state may become
intensified, or a mix of both. "
This would appear to be the case with me ...
So, what action would be wise in these circumstances?
Thanks Julian.
I look forward to learning much more.
peace
Jane x
-
Julian Winston
- Posts: 622
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: Total Newbie
>JW] Which book?
good book. But don't take it all as gospel. Vithoukas/Gray was using
the "stimulation model" (i.e., the remedy stimulates the vital force
to heal) which is NOT what Hahnemann said in the 6th edition (the
remedy is stronger than the disease and replaces it and fades, then
the vital force can clean up and keep working). It (the book) is
coming out of Kent's work rather directly from Hahnemann, so it has a
very "spiritual" slant.
yup.
The Vithoulkas book should answer that!
Re-take the case and find a better remedy OR if the same remedy is
still indicated, change the potency.
JW
good book. But don't take it all as gospel. Vithoukas/Gray was using
the "stimulation model" (i.e., the remedy stimulates the vital force
to heal) which is NOT what Hahnemann said in the 6th edition (the
remedy is stronger than the disease and replaces it and fades, then
the vital force can clean up and keep working). It (the book) is
coming out of Kent's work rather directly from Hahnemann, so it has a
very "spiritual" slant.
yup.
The Vithoulkas book should answer that!
Re-take the case and find a better remedy OR if the same remedy is
still indicated, change the potency.
JW