- Sharing a Case

[Dale Moss]

Shannon,

I think it means that the Px is thirsty during apyrexia, or the stage when the fever (heat) is in remission. That fits Cimex, which is thirsty then but not when actually feeling hot.

Peace,
Cinnabar

[Julian Winston]

At 11:26 AM +0200 10/1/03, jean vanhove wrote:
As Rochelle pointed out, this is an ACUTE case. There is no need to
delve into this depth.
This "depth delving" is what found a lot of homeopaths in the 1970s
(after Vithoulkas's essences came through) not having any success.
They did not understand the difference between chronic and acute;
They did not know sufficient materia medica; They did not understand
what paragraph 153 was about-- they though they were looking for the
strange, rare symptom of the *person* rather than that of *the
disease*.
As an old friend summed it up, "I know you have a runny nose, but was
your mother afraid of canteloupes?"

The weight of the baby, and the delivery of the baby have little to
do with a kid who suddenly gets a stomach ache.

JW

[Julian Winston]

At 1:06 AM +0100 10/1/03, ROCHELLE wrote:

This one is really sticking with me.
Just as an experiment, I decided to take what you presented and run
it through Boger's General Analysis (card repertory).
I do know that the tool (Boger's GA) is not the best for this type of
case, but figured I'd give a try...

Used the following rubrics:
Flatulence
Stomach & Bowels
Thirst, absent during fever
Lying bent or double ameliorates.

These lead to two remedies: China and Pulsatilla

If one adds, "Uncovering, ameliorates" (which isn't certain-- there
WAS uncovering, but if it ameliorated or not is uncertain), the onlt
Remedy coming through is Pulsatilla.

Most interesting!

JW

[Rochelle]

Not Puls. because the child wasn't clingy!! These reps are OK except you have really shown how important it is to have a knowledge or at be able to look up Rx in the MM. I think the key here is possibly not "flatulence" but Flatulence obstructed" which was what Mum thought (trapped wind) and which didn't come through on my original information about the phone call.

Am away tomorrow for the second to last Dr Ramakrishan seminar . This is nearly pure therapeutics but interesting!! This weekend it is eczema, eye, ear, nose, throat and endocrine disorders.

All the best
Rochelle
www.rochellemarsden.co.uk

[Joy Lucas]

And this surely indicates how general sx lead you up the garden path -
flatulence is far too general and not all flatulence is obstructed, ditto
stomach and bowels.

What is a very important sx is the thirst absent during fever and lying bent
ameliorates + there is a state of constipation (fact) and the covers were
kicked off - why? out of anger and irritability, heat and the dislike of
being covered as in Cham or Bryonia, or extreme heat such as Sulphur or
Iodum, hates the heat of the bed as in Lyc etc.

I think the best lesson here is that symptoms have to be followed through
when case taking (perhaps even more so with acutes when there is little time
to think and play around with rx), you have to be curious enough to know why
someone acts the way they do. The sx has to be completed. I think this is
exemplified by the fact that Cham cured the case and because it has both
diarrhoea and constipation and also likes to be covered as well as disliking
it. We have to read the materia medicas to confirm a remedy and not just go
by repertorisation.

best, Joy

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 10/2/03 12:09 PM, Julian Winston at jwinston@actrix.gen.nz wrote:
This one is really sticking with me.
Just as an experiment, I decided to take what you presented and run
it through Boger's General Analysis (card repertory).
I do know that the tool (Boger's GA) is not the best for this type of
case, but figured I'd give a try...

Used the following rubrics:
Flatulence
Stomach & Bowels
Thirst, absent during fever
Lying bent or double ameliorates.

These lead to two remedies: China and Pulsatilla

If one adds, "Uncovering, ameliorates" (which isn't certain-- there
WAS uncovering, but if it ameliorated or not is uncertain), the onlt
Remedy coming through is Pulsatilla.

Most interesting!

JW
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Shannon Nelson]

Wasn't clingy, but wanted to be near mum; wasn't capricious or screaming,
but merely crying! Rochelle, your result was terrific and we can't argue
with that! But from a stricly analysis standpoint, I don't see where cham.
is any more indicated than puls (she said helplessly...)????

I realize that to give the remedy we don't need to see a "full-blown"
picture, but in this case, I don't see where one rx is a better fit than the
other! And it's exactly the sort of dilemma I keep finding myself in, where
two (or more) seem sorta-kinda indicated, but neither is really
convincing...

Shannon
on 10/2/03 7:05 AM, ROCHELLE at rochelle@ntlworld.com wrote:

[Shannon Nelson]

So Joy,
What additional symptoms or information would for you have been needed to
confirm cham? (You mention "heat and dislike of being covered", but that
could be hard to get clearly from the child!) I'm very interested in this
exchange because it's *exactly* the sort of situation I keep winding up in
-- two or more look "sort of indicated", but nothing is really convincing --
sometimes they work out, and sometimes they don't, but in any case I'm not
happy with my process at present! So I'm very interested to see whether,
tho it's academic and "in retrospect", we can make this case look more
solid?

And maybe it's *even* possible that, in spite of the terrific outcome,
another remedy could come up as more indicated, as a vital child can surely
make good use of even a "sort of" remedy (still, this does seem a *very*
good outcome...)
on 10/2/03 7:20 AM, Joy Lucas at joy.lucas@ntlworld.com wrote:

[Joy Lucas]

Apparently what Rochelle did was to rep out what she had and used the rx
that came through all rubrics and not the remedy which appeared to come out
on top which is always a disastrous mistake - this is an ok approach because
you would then go and look in the MM's and read again about such a well
known remedy mainly because this is an unusual aspect of Cham and not
certainly not the rx you might have thought about first.

Because it is an unusual aspect I would the be asking for confirming sx and
also for ones which would rule out other more obvious remedies.

Careful questioning of the parent/s or carer would be more than useful as
would your own observations of the child.

I would be asking what else ameliorates the child apart from lying (Cham
love to be carried). Cold application >> also. I would be asking about why
she didn't want to be disturbed and how she reacted is she was. In what way
was she crying = screaming, whimping, whining, sobbing etc (Cham can moan as
well as be irritable). Does she want warm drinks or cold (Cham averse to
warm), does she crave something sour (Cham like sour). What led up to the
fever, was it sudden, gradual. How is she when walking around instead of
lying. How strong is the sx of drawing the knees up, does this >> or <

[Rosemary Hyde]

Thanks, Julian, for carrying on this discussion and presenting your analysis of the case that was cured by Chamomilla. This sort of thing really is interesting, because it happens all the time.

It's entirely possible, using the obvious rubrics, to come up with a remedy that came through and yet does nothing. It's also possible, in my experience, to come up convincingly after the fact with a remedy different from the one that someone else chose to actually cure the case.

Of course, Rochelle had an advantage over the rest of us reading the case, in that she had seen the child and mother together, and knew that Pulsatilla was unlilkely, given the way they behaved.

But I've often wondered about situations like this. Either more than one remedy could have worked (we never find out, because the one that does work finishes the job, and the same case never recurs).

Or the practitioner actually relating one on one with the patient(s) benefits from energetic and intuitive information that goes back and forth and becomes part of the whole healing situation (I've seen enough evidence for this to believe it, actually).

Or the reference materials we have available as homeopaths can use some firming up, confirmation, scientific review, reformatting on a variety of levels. I believe all of this is true as well.

I'm glad people like Sankaran, Scholten, and Vemeulen are focusing on this last issue. I'd be interested to learn what others think of the first two possibilities I raised.

Rosemary

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Joy Lucas]

Dear Rosemary, I think there is a great need to keep it simple. If one has
taken the case as carefully as possible and can 'see' the remedy needed,
prescribes it and it does nothing, then it isn't the end of the world, we go
back and look at the case again, ask more questions check our details, read
and probably read again and then we might see the obvious. It is a
continuing learning curve.

best, Joy

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 10/2/03 7:35 PM, Rosemary Hyde at rosemaryhyde@mindspring.com wrote:

Thanks, Julian, for carrying on this discussion and presenting your analysis
of the case that was cured by Chamomilla. This sort of thing really is
interesting, because it happens all the time.

It's entirely possible, using the obvious rubrics, to come up with a remedy
that came through and yet does nothing. It's also possible, in my
experience, to come up convincingly after the fact with a remedy different
from the one that someone else chose to actually cure the case.

Of course, Rochelle had an advantage over the rest of us reading the case,
in that she had seen the child and mother together, and knew that Pulsatilla
was unlilkely, given the way they behaved.

But I've often wondered about situations like this. Either more than one
remedy could have worked (we never find out, because the one that does work
finishes the job, and the same case never recurs).

Or the practitioner actually relating one on one with the patient(s)
benefits from energetic and intuitive information that goes back and forth
and becomes part of the whole healing situation (I've seen enough evidence
for this to believe it, actually).

Or the reference materials we have available as homeopaths can use some
firming up, confirmation, scientific review, reformatting on a variety of
levels. I believe all of this is true as well.

I'm glad people like Sankaran, Scholten, and Vemeulen are focusing on this
last issue. I'd be interested to learn what others think of the first two
possibilities I raised.

Rosemary

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
ATTENTION PLEASE:

The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and
educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding
the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read
or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or
email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use
remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its
individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental,
special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.

****
If you do not wish to receive individual emails, send a message with the
subject of 'Digest' to ashahrdar@yahoo.com to receive a single daily digest.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
minutus-unsubscribe@egroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]