a bland case?

[Rochelle Marsden ntl]

Thanks for that Joy and how interesting. I realise that Teuc. is not a definite specific for nasal polyps as I have tried it with a patient and got no results!! Maybe because with your case it was bland and that there was precious little strong Sx to prescribe on was why it worked so well. I think I prescribe it in a 6 bd for months together with a constitutional high.!!

Regards,
Rochelle

www.rochellemarsden.co.uk

-----------------------------------------
Email provided by http://www.ntlhome.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Joy Lucas]

Dear Patricia, this really made me smile. I imagine that Teucrium is called
Cat Thyme because cats love to roll about in it like Catnep?

Thanks )

Joy

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 9/1/03 12:20 PM, Patricia Hatherly at triciah@rnhconsulting.com.au wrote:

Dear Joy

Thanks for that; it's interesting that this Rx has "desire to stretch" just
like a cat!

regards
Patricia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Steve Scrutton]

Joy, thanks for the case, which I found interesting because I also have a
very 'bland' patient at present whose main problem is minor petite mal.

Reading through all the posts relating to this case it is interesting how so
many homeopaths have put together so much thought on the same case and come
up with quite different remedies, including well reasoned cases for Sepia
and Lachesis (if I remember correctly). I myself was going to look at
Graphites (when I think of blandness this remedy always comes to mind) to
check it out.

I would like to know your thoughts on this query as it is one that interests
me in this case, and more generally within homeopathic literature.

You have treated the case with Teucrium, and with success. Ao would everyone
else, therefore, have been wrong? Would all the other remedies have had no
effect? We tend to say "this is THE remedy" and implicit in this statement
is that itis the ONLY remedy. Do you think this is true? The problem is, of
course, that we can never know if Sepia or Lachesis might have worked - she
is better now and no cases are ever identical..
Steve Scrutton
Homeopath

"Homeopathy is a safe, gentle and effective medical therapy"

[V.T. Yekkirala]

Hi,
I did not attach anything to my post. No- I did not
go by repertorisation in this case.
For one thing Teucr is such a well known remedy for
recurrent polyps that even a neophyte wouldn't miss it
and I thought Joy had good reasons to discard it in the
beginning itself in favor of a remedy from the mineral kingdom.
Secondly repertorisation is only a means to arrive at a group of remedies
for further exploration and not an end in itself. ... ...enough ranting
OK, my guess was wrong.
Joy , you made out a good case. Hoping to see more such.
with best wishes,
V.T.Yekkirala.
_________________________________________________________________
Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with advanced parental controls.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental

[Joy Lucas]

Dear Steve, to try and answer your question - of course we will come up with
a variety of remedies because we are looking at the cases from different
points of view. I don't submit cases in a competitive way (i.e. loads of
brownie points to those who get the rx correct), but more as a way of
illustrating a point, a method, a way of observing etc. I learnt from this
case as I too got somewhat carried away with adding elements that were not
justified.

However, having said that, I suppose we should all be coming up with the
same, or nearly the same rx, as in a true paper case, there is a lesson to
be learned - how to find the simillimum!

You also ask whether other rx would have been wrong. I can only say, yes, as
was my first choice of Nat Mur. Teucrium has a relationship with Cina, Ign
(so my Nat mur wasn't too far off ), Sang, Sil, Camph, Puls amongst
others - so these rx might have some kind of effect.

And if a rx is way off and the potency completely wrong other remedies might
have had an effect but in a disastrously suppressive or damaging manner.

Having just had a brief look at the remedies that were suggested I give a
brief reason why they would not have cured....

Lachesis - where is the jealousy, loquacity, sexuality?
Graphites - where are the skin sx?
Sulphur - might have woken something up as we all have sulphur in us!
Tuberculinum - where is the irritable behaviour, changing moods,
dissatisfaction?
Sepia - where is the stasis, the angry moods, the hormonal imbalance?
Calc phos - where is the peevishness, the deformity of bones, the
irritability, the grief?
Causticum - where is the paralysis, the grief, the anxieties and suspicion?
Kali nit - where is the weakness, the asthma, the fear of death, the
dropsical swellings?
Zinc phos - where is the depression, sexual excitement or the apprehension?

I realise these are rx in nutshells but you could nutshell my 'bland' case
to nasal polyps and strangely agitated hands and feet - then maybe we would
all have got the rx correct first time. There is only one simillimum at any
given time - satelite remedies will just fudge a case - completely wrong rx
might do nothing or worse, create havoc.

Other's viewpoints?

Kind regards, Joy

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 9/1/03 3:28 PM, Steve Scrutton at stevescrutton@btinternet.com wrote:

Joy, thanks for the case, which I found interesting because I also have a
very 'bland' patient at present whose main problem is minor petite mal.

Reading through all the posts relating to this case it is interesting how so
many homeopaths have put together so much thought on the same case and come
up with quite different remedies, including well reasoned cases for Sepia
and Lachesis (if I remember correctly). I myself was going to look at
Graphites (when I think of blandness this remedy always comes to mind) to
check it out.

I would like to know your thoughts on this query as it is one that interests
me in this case, and more generally within homeopathic literature.

You have treated the case with Teucrium, and with success. Ao would everyone
else, therefore, have been wrong? Would all the other remedies have had no
effect? We tend to say "this is THE remedy" and implicit in this statement
is that itis the ONLY remedy. Do you think this is true? The problem is, of
course, that we can never know if Sepia or Lachesis might have worked - she
is better now and no cases are ever identical..
Steve Scrutton
Homeopath

"Homeopathy is a safe, gentle and effective medical therapy"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Shannon Nelson]

Thanks Joy,
This was fascinating!!!
I would see this is another example of where we need flexibility in
casetaking (scolding myself with this one, as I sure missed the boat), and
ability to "go where the case is". Altho I didn't have much time to try on
this one, I'm pretty sure I'd have "never" made it to Teucr, because I was
focusing on trying to make "something out of nothing" in paucity of the
overall case. I didn't even *try* repping the sxs of the polyp itself,
assuming it was a trivial "effect" of the "constitutional" case.

But I think this is also an example of where (perhaps, I'll have to read
more on the remedy) a remedy that's thought of as "local" is actually not,
but is simply not fully enough known (proved, etc.). (E.g. we should
perhaps(?) pencil in teucr for foot-tapping and "fiddling"/restless fingers?

I also like Steve's thoughts, that perhaps some of the other suggestions
would also have helped. Maybe that's a question that could be better
guessed at (love those guesses...) by looking at her *long*-term response to
Teucr -- has it acted "deeply" for her, on things other than the polyps?

This I'd love to hear more from you on in any case -- did the Teucr make
changes in her M/E situation? As you noted, her remark that "My live is
almost over..." etc., did not sound like a particularly healthy one. I'd
love to hear more about just what has changed after the Teucr -- does she
shift, fiddle and tap less? Is she more cheerful, is she finding and
pursuing any more interests, anything else???

Delightful case -- thank you so much!
Shannon
on 9/1/03 5:56 AM, Joy Lucas at joy.lucas@ntlworld.com wrote:

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Joy,

You wrote:
Sigh, this (nutshelling) is where I am struggling.
I had "nutshelled" her case as suppression of natural inclinations, with
outlets coming in places such as her spy novels and fidgeting, and the
"blandness" a result of having (had to?) suppressed so much of herself. I
suppose I'm just reading in too much, and making things too complicated...

Shannon
- then maybe we would

[Wendy Howard]

Shannon wrote:

Doesn't it come back to the simple question "what needs to be cured?"?

Seems to me this is a great example (sorry it's at your expense Shannnon!)
of what can happen when Kent's hierarchical approach becomes too
ingrained -- how it tends to result in a primary focus on the mental state
*regardless*. Hahnemann had no hierarchy of symptoms. There was only the
totality, and within the totality some generally fruitful areas on which to
focus (mental state, SRP, accessory symptoms, etc). This is a subtle
distinction but, IMO at least, a very important one.

Regards
Wendy

[Rosemary Hyde]

Hi, Shannon.

I had also made that interpretation, that the blandness came from suppression. As I'm reflecting on this case, I could see a lot more, as I wrote, that she did not seem emotionally connected to her family at all. But this apparently wasn't an issue for her, so I suppose it was presumptuous of me to assume it should be one.

I know there are a number of "keynote" publications -- generally from older authors who gave little credence to mental/ emotional symptoms for most remedies,and who gave too many "keynotes" to be really useful. What author would people recommend who has written a "keynote" list that includes only those symptoms that really HAVE to be in a case for a remedy to be considered?

Rosemary

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Joy Lucas]

Dear Rosemary, I am somewhat wary of using keynote prescribing too much (we
have to find a balance between expanding a case and closing it down to the
bare essentials), but I think I prefer the term 'concise' to 'keynote' and I
always put Tyler at the top of this list. She wastes little on a plethora of
mental and emotional sx.

But, having said that, with a rx such as Teucrium, with the sx picture being
relatively small, it is so much easier to enclose the case.

I would also say though, that this case did have quite a strong mental and
emotional sx picture - the strange interdependent mixture of what I called
blandness (with a question mark), but you could call it dullness, which is
what the MM's call it, and the nervous need for excitation. To me, this was
a strange, rare and peculiar and it took me a while, not so much on how to
recognise it, but more on how to use it.

Perhaps this is the issue with the so called smaller remedies.

I bet we all know Teucrium now though )

best wishes, Joy

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 9/1/03 7:11 PM, Rosemary Hyde at rosemaryhyde@mindspring.com wrote:

Hi, Shannon.

I had also made that interpretation, that the blandness came from
suppression. As I'm reflecting on this case, I could see a lot more, as I
wrote, that she did not seem emotionally connected to her family at all.
But this apparently wasn't an issue for her, so I suppose it was
presumptuous of me to assume it should be one.

I know there are a number of "keynote" publications -- generally from older
authors who gave little credence to mental/ emotional symptoms for most
remedies,and who gave too many "keynotes" to be really useful. What author
would people recommend who has written a "keynote" list that includes only
those symptoms that really HAVE to be in a case for a remedy to be
considered?

Rosemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]