Off Topic non somatic energetics

[isali]

Dr. J Rozencwaig shared experience of application of Ign under the thread of case management 11/28. In which you indicated that in treatment of symptoms including cough with the use of kali's found little or no relief. From information obtained elsewise you were able to identify the pts. nonsomatic profile which led you to Ign. and resolution.

I offer to you for your consideration the following: In oriental medicine we identify five pathological emotional energetics, and each one has an affinity for a specific organ system. Sadness and Grief are energetically consumptive and eminate from the Lung energetic system. Ign falls within this non somatic area and reflects with the somatic discord of your case.

Perhaps a use of such a model would prove to value in either directing your thoughts to a remedy or in prioritising the application of remedies in sequence.

Kind regards
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

Yes but in order to have that correspondence working properly, we need
to create a parallel between the Chinese concepts and the homeopathic
remedies.
On a superficial layer, I looked at my homeosiniatric charts (Weihe
points) and found out that Ignatia corresponds to St26 (no relation) and
Kali Carb to GB 24 (no relation) and Sp 21 Da Bao where we have the
indication of dyspnoea and chest pain........

So I do not see how practically, and not in retrospect, that knowledge
of Chinese physiology would have helped me since I did not know about
the Ignatia state until told so by the friend/employer.
And if I wanted to use it the opposite way, i.e. knowing I have a Lung
pathology, the spectrum of possibilities is way too wide to be useful.

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".

[Dave Hartley]

Hi Isali,

This "chord" also sounds true within "new age" thought (in general) and to
some extent in homeopathic practice & literature.

Look at "ailments from grief" in general and specifically those associated
with chill & cough

regards,
Dave Hartley
www.Mr-Notebook.com
www.localcomputermart.com/dave
Seattle, WA 425.820.7443
Asheville, NC 828.285.0240

[isali]

The procedure I apply during the course of a case taking is likely a
parallel to what all physician do. Identify a chief complaint or
complaints, fill out a more complete clinical picture, identify the menu of
medicines both historically and currently, and lastly I attempt to identify
the mental terrain.

It is this last aspect to which I would direct your attention. I inform the
pt. that I am going to identify for them five emotions and I want them to
select from the five one. It should be the one that they identify with the
most. I add that they should make their selection more spontaneously rather
than with great reflection.

I indicate further that I will state each one and offer a description. And
I will repeat the list a second time. It is during the second recitation
that I seek their choice.

The emotions are: anger or irritability (liver/gb system), as in an
upsurging of action; anxiety or worry (spleen/stomach system), produces a
stagnation, as in being stuck in one spot, turning circles, and going no
where, it is not factually based; fear (kidney/b system), produces a
derailing of energetics, it is factually based, as in easily startled or
urinating in one's pants, or a bowel movement in one's pants; sadness or
grief (lung/LI system), which is a consumptive energetic, as in the body
curling inward; meloncholy or hopelessness (heart/SI system), spreads the
organism's energetic too thinly, as in a leaf adrift on the ocean without
hope of ever reaching shore.

I state this and then repeat it seeking the patients response the second
time. Some pt. attempt to redefine what I've stated, others are indecisive,
and others identify with confidence one of them. I press the issue without
force seeking a response. When a reponse is made I ask the pt. for a mental
image that is associated with their choice.

I employ this as a tool to aid my thinking more wholly. It as a secondary
matter causes the patient to consider their emotional or mental state and
with direct association assume responsibility for it.

In any event it is a tool that comes out of the five element theory of
oriental medicine which I have found to be of value in aiding my thinking
toward a homeopathic remedy as well as a herbal composition.

As to the need to find a parallel between these two systems, I would suggest
that you look into a system called the extraordinary vessel system, rather
than the regular meridian system. The distinction will be found in their
respective functions.

The Regular meridian system connect to the organ and bowel systems,
circulate the bodies energetics and blood to the surface and limbs, and
distribute their action in accordance with the circadian rhythm. This
system has acupuncture points which are displayed on the bodies surface with
defined functional consequence.

The Extraordinary vessels should be viewed more a reservoirs of energetics,
similar to a bank account. They have no acupuncture points and do not
connect to organs or bowels. They functionally serve to strengthen the
association amongst the regular meridians, by assuming responsibility to
control, join, store, and regulate the chi and blood of each regular
meridian. There are eight of them and they operate in pairs.

It is a subject area I would be happy to dialogue and demonstrate its
parallel modelling; however, it is at this juncture very much off topic. So
I would suggest a reading of the extraordinary vessel system. The subject I
wanted to share with you was the usage of the emotional states and its
correlative organ system with the intention that you might find it an aid in
determing a homeopathic remedy.

Kind regards

[isali]

Greetings dave, and thanks for your observation. It was with such pursuit,
which you made, that I began to realise some parallel possibilities between
these two paradigms. It is what causes me to seek common ground with you
and others in the field of homeopathy. My finding, and perhaps poorly
expressed, is that our concepts are so very similar.

regards

[Dave Hartley]

Hi Isali,

I think it likely that a homeopathic anamnesis might vary considerably from
most casetakings "parallel to what all physcians do."

It might be very instructive for a physician who comes to study homeopathy
as a 2nd modality to apply h/irself to observing a number of casetakings-
to apprentice in clinical internship as it were, at least to the extent of
being able to internalize the coherency of homeopathy as a complete system,
fully functional within itself- as opposed the having the otherwise
*solely-available* means of attempting to interpret it thru the lens of
another system.

Pragmatically (and homeopathy as an empirical system is nothing if not
pragmatic)
-there either is or is not some level of correspondence between prevailing
emotional tone and tendency toward pathology arising within certain organs
or other subsystems of the body; same applies to the more rarified "reflex"
/ "referred symptom" correspondences.

Obviously (to a homeopath)
1. there are such correspondences (though not "cast in stone")
2. such correspondences are innate within the provings and thus
3. a well-taken case, and a subsequent well chosen Rx will address these
things "automatically" within the normal scope of homeopathic practice,
except where
4. some instances of M/E derangement may require counselling of some form

Here is a thought-

It appears to me as if the TCM modalities perceive a grand totality, yet the
practitioner must be practically a grand master to work other than at the
level of piecemeal interventions directed on a "tit-for-tat" basis.

Homeopathy, on the other hand, is intrinsically a wholistic modality.
Medicines are tested to see what their effects are.
Effects are catalogued in MM and indexed in Repertory
Case is taken; symptoms are expressed, and are taken to be consonant with
said effects in terms of therapeutic potential
Wholism pervades from start to finish; the artistry of the homeopath being
at its height in relating a patttern of
1. susceptibility
2. etiology
3. pathology
4. non-pathological confirmations
..... thru the casetaking... TO the Rx selection (& posology, which is of
much higher importance than many are aware.)

Naturally, I am fully cognizant of my own lack of in-depth understanding of
TCM - I have studied only superficially, and have attended but few
casetakings - but these few and this limited study do indeed bear out
distinct differences of a fundamental nature which I have hopefully
expressed in a manner which will not cause gnashing of teeth and wailing.

regards,

Dave Hartley
www.Mr-Notebook.com
www.localcomputermart.com/dave
Seattle, WA 425.820.7443
Asheville, NC 828.285.0240

[isali]

Greetings Dave and thanks for your thoughtful response. I am going to
interpose my responses within your script.