In a message dated 11/3/2002 10:05:47 AM Mountain Standard Time,
shannonnelson@tds.net writes:
My question here is how do you know that tub caused this? Perhpas he was on
this course anyway? Are you saying that tub aggravated the sycotic miasm? or
were tub symptoms aggravated?
If it did cause this and brought to the surface the need for med. then was
not med helpful?
You wrote:
; I would *need* to see that they are showing *current* signs of
*active* cancer miasm! And wishing to have a better sense of what those
are.
Part of what I am trying to say is that the cancer miamic picture holds
within it many other remedy pictures. We know that the complete remedy
picture need not be present for the remedy to work. I thinks that a lot of
nat murs, phos, silica, calc. constitutions and many others are treated on
the costitutional picture when carc. miasm is there intermingled with other
pictures.
Dr. Golden gives nosodes as homeopathic vaccination and had never reported
any occurrence of awakening a miasm. Many remedies aggravate and many
remedies are known to treat miams. No one wants to create aggravations but it
sometimes is the unavoidable course of treatment because we cannot always
predict the needs or action of the vital force.
See: http://www.whale.to/vaccines/hom.html
There is so much that we still don't know or understand. I feel that there
have been a lot of myths developed over the years about what remedies will
and will not do and how to apply them. People with the highest integrity have
such conflict of opinions. This surely must come about through
misinterpretation of events.
Best,
Barbara
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
carcinosin children
Re: carcinosin children
Dear Jan, to try and answer your questions:-
I think the children 'learn' to suppress themselves because they are taught
how to - it is expected of them, and they become overly obedient and dutiful
and instead of expressing their fears (although at first they might but this
is met with a disinterest or a dismissal), they become fearful to show their
fears if you see what I mean. It is tantamount to behaviour modification.
I don't want to delve into amateur psychology here but to say that because
suppression is at the core of Carcinosin - this is indeed what occurs, and
anything can evolve out of this depending on what other influences there are
in the case.
Earlier this year I had a case of a young girl. During the case taking it
became evident that there was a strong Phosphoric background but there was
also a lot of grief, fearfulness, suppression, overly expectant parents from
an academic point of view (incidentally her sister was a very serious Nat
Mur) and this girl had taking to fervently praying before she could allow
herself to proceed with any act of eating, speaking, drinking, playing,
watching television etc. She spent the whole consultation - a long one - non
stop talking but refusing to answer any questions. The door has closed
completely! Carcinosin brought her back.
Does this help answer your question?
Best wishes, Joy
I think the children 'learn' to suppress themselves because they are taught
how to - it is expected of them, and they become overly obedient and dutiful
and instead of expressing their fears (although at first they might but this
is met with a disinterest or a dismissal), they become fearful to show their
fears if you see what I mean. It is tantamount to behaviour modification.
I don't want to delve into amateur psychology here but to say that because
suppression is at the core of Carcinosin - this is indeed what occurs, and
anything can evolve out of this depending on what other influences there are
in the case.
Earlier this year I had a case of a young girl. During the case taking it
became evident that there was a strong Phosphoric background but there was
also a lot of grief, fearfulness, suppression, overly expectant parents from
an academic point of view (incidentally her sister was a very serious Nat
Mur) and this girl had taking to fervently praying before she could allow
herself to proceed with any act of eating, speaking, drinking, playing,
watching television etc. She spent the whole consultation - a long one - non
stop talking but refusing to answer any questions. The door has closed
completely! Carcinosin brought her back.
Does this help answer your question?
Best wishes, Joy
-
Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: carcinosin children
Hi Barbara,
You asked:
Well, here's what happened. For some months (after his prior rx) he'd been
doing well, but then started to get increasingly restless, always at the
door wanting to go "out", moving restlessly around the room, getting into
trouble. In an impish (to my eye), basically charming kid. There's
definitely tub miasm in his family, so that's what I fastened on. But
within the first (?) few days or less of getting the remedy (tub 200, single
dose), he went from "restless" to *frantic*, then started having wild swings
between "climbing the walls" and collapse; he would suddenly say "I have to
rest now", and literally crawl to his bed, where he'd lie for hours, perhaps
the rest of the day. Then his energy (adrenalin) would begin to return --
right about bedtime, by which point he was again manic, bouncing, shrieking.
At that point, and noting that bedtime had long been a problem, tho less
dramatically, I went well duh... We used Med LMs, and after some initial
"excitment" working out his dose (following pharmacy's instructions had him
climbing the walls again), his energy and balance returned very quickly. He
went on to infrequent higher potency doses of Med, which worked very well
for him in the following few years.
Perhpas he was on
I was already in need of Med. That seems very clear.
Apparently so. The med symptoms went from "clear" (Med and Tub can have a
*lot* in common, or so I seem to see; but Med is the one that gets ready to
party at bedtime!) to "in your face with a big, wet raspberry" (the wild
extremes!).
Nope. What I had *thought* were Tub sxs, were definitely Med sxs, and Med
served well for a long time after.
I assume this is a typo.
Med was *very* helpful; Tub was simply a mistake. The only way it was
helpful is that it made an already bad situation so much worse that I really
couldn't miss it!
B's reply:
Yes, this makes sense to me.
Some people seem to suggest the other side too, that carc can maybe "stand
in for", or do the work of, those other remedies. That, tho, I doubt.
I do gather/seem to understand that the carc picture is broad and varied,
can present in different ways (look like different remedies!). And I
*think* I understand (???) that you could have different miams "active"
within a given remedy picture, which would *in part* account for the way the
different presentation possibilities of remedies. E.g. a presentation of
calc could be primarily tubercular (restless, longing, romantic) or
primarily psoric (timid, withdrawn) (or ??); etc. **
But this would be nosodes of *other* diseases, I assume? Or would he give
Med to vaccinate against gonorrhea, Tub against tuberculosis??? I *think*
this is different use of nosodes, and nosodes of a different class -- isn't
it???
and had never reported
"Miasm" has been used to mean different and not always clear things.
I think that inherited miasm, or one which has already gone deep into the
VF, is a different class of thing, and requires a different sort of
treatment, from the "miasm" associated with infectious illness???
Do you know whether he uses Med, Psor, Tub, Carc, and Syph in this sort of
"routine" way? Frankly, I'd *love* to not have to worry about it. Esp.
because of some people I'm working with where I "know" that e.g. syph miasm
is there "somewhere", and I don't have confidence that it's there actively
enough to warrant giving Syphillinum. My experience with the Tub/Med did
make me nervous on the topic...
No one wants to create aggravations but it
Oh, I agree. Sometimes you have to make a mess in order to clear one up!
Nonetheless, I thought the instructions re using nosodes (by which I mean
Med, Psor, Tub, Carc, Syph) only on *active* miasms, seemed like a
reasonable way to save some trouble! I recall also being told that you
*can't* treat a miasm that's not presently active -- "You can't lop its head
off until that head is sticking up!" (Kinda gross image, sorry! She was
referring to Hahnemann's "hydra-headed" metaphor.)
Yeah, again I agree. Lots of "myths", hard to sort them out!
In this case, tho, I haven't really seen any other interpretation.
I suppose one could say this was just a "wrong remedy" reaction, wherein the
"close but wrong" remedy clarifies the prescribing picture -- it certainly
did that! Maybe the fact that they were nosodes was only incidental --
after all it did *not* seem to rouse his tubercular, so far as I saw.
On the other hand, over the years I've made *plenty* of mistakes (waaaah!),
and this is the only one that "bit" me!
So, who knows...
Thanks for the thoughts!
Shannon
You asked:
Well, here's what happened. For some months (after his prior rx) he'd been
doing well, but then started to get increasingly restless, always at the
door wanting to go "out", moving restlessly around the room, getting into
trouble. In an impish (to my eye), basically charming kid. There's
definitely tub miasm in his family, so that's what I fastened on. But
within the first (?) few days or less of getting the remedy (tub 200, single
dose), he went from "restless" to *frantic*, then started having wild swings
between "climbing the walls" and collapse; he would suddenly say "I have to
rest now", and literally crawl to his bed, where he'd lie for hours, perhaps
the rest of the day. Then his energy (adrenalin) would begin to return --
right about bedtime, by which point he was again manic, bouncing, shrieking.
At that point, and noting that bedtime had long been a problem, tho less
dramatically, I went well duh... We used Med LMs, and after some initial
"excitment" working out his dose (following pharmacy's instructions had him
climbing the walls again), his energy and balance returned very quickly. He
went on to infrequent higher potency doses of Med, which worked very well
for him in the following few years.
Perhpas he was on
I was already in need of Med. That seems very clear.
Apparently so. The med symptoms went from "clear" (Med and Tub can have a
*lot* in common, or so I seem to see; but Med is the one that gets ready to
party at bedtime!) to "in your face with a big, wet raspberry" (the wild
extremes!).
Nope. What I had *thought* were Tub sxs, were definitely Med sxs, and Med
served well for a long time after.
I assume this is a typo.
Med was *very* helpful; Tub was simply a mistake. The only way it was
helpful is that it made an already bad situation so much worse that I really
couldn't miss it!
B's reply:
Yes, this makes sense to me.
Some people seem to suggest the other side too, that carc can maybe "stand
in for", or do the work of, those other remedies. That, tho, I doubt.
I do gather/seem to understand that the carc picture is broad and varied,
can present in different ways (look like different remedies!). And I
*think* I understand (???) that you could have different miams "active"
within a given remedy picture, which would *in part* account for the way the
different presentation possibilities of remedies. E.g. a presentation of
calc could be primarily tubercular (restless, longing, romantic) or
primarily psoric (timid, withdrawn) (or ??); etc. **
But this would be nosodes of *other* diseases, I assume? Or would he give
Med to vaccinate against gonorrhea, Tub against tuberculosis??? I *think*
this is different use of nosodes, and nosodes of a different class -- isn't
it???
and had never reported
"Miasm" has been used to mean different and not always clear things.
I think that inherited miasm, or one which has already gone deep into the
VF, is a different class of thing, and requires a different sort of
treatment, from the "miasm" associated with infectious illness???
Do you know whether he uses Med, Psor, Tub, Carc, and Syph in this sort of
"routine" way? Frankly, I'd *love* to not have to worry about it. Esp.
because of some people I'm working with where I "know" that e.g. syph miasm
is there "somewhere", and I don't have confidence that it's there actively
enough to warrant giving Syphillinum. My experience with the Tub/Med did
make me nervous on the topic...
No one wants to create aggravations but it
Oh, I agree. Sometimes you have to make a mess in order to clear one up!
Nonetheless, I thought the instructions re using nosodes (by which I mean
Med, Psor, Tub, Carc, Syph) only on *active* miasms, seemed like a
reasonable way to save some trouble! I recall also being told that you
*can't* treat a miasm that's not presently active -- "You can't lop its head
off until that head is sticking up!" (Kinda gross image, sorry! She was
referring to Hahnemann's "hydra-headed" metaphor.)
Yeah, again I agree. Lots of "myths", hard to sort them out!
In this case, tho, I haven't really seen any other interpretation.
I suppose one could say this was just a "wrong remedy" reaction, wherein the
"close but wrong" remedy clarifies the prescribing picture -- it certainly
did that! Maybe the fact that they were nosodes was only incidental --
after all it did *not* seem to rouse his tubercular, so far as I saw.
On the other hand, over the years I've made *plenty* of mistakes (waaaah!),
and this is the only one that "bit" me!
So, who knows...
Thanks for the thoughts!
Shannon
-
Jan Klüssendorf
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: carcinosin children
Dear Joy,
Yes, I see what you mean.
So, the suppression of fear is in fact 'induced' by the lack of *real*
parenthood involvement towards their children, which children feel of course
and as a reaction don't express their fear to the parents fewer and fewer,
with the result that they will be reassured fewer and fewer, hence the fear
is still there but gets suppressed after a while....
Got it. Thanks.
Jan
Yes, I see what you mean.
So, the suppression of fear is in fact 'induced' by the lack of *real*
parenthood involvement towards their children, which children feel of course
and as a reaction don't express their fear to the parents fewer and fewer,
with the result that they will be reassured fewer and fewer, hence the fear
is still there but gets suppressed after a while....
Got it. Thanks.
Jan
Re: carcinosin children
I remember it being explained as useful for children who have either not
been allowed to express themselves in a strict household or those who have
been given no boundaries and been allowed to do as they wanted. Also those
families which have a family conference to decide things!! I have found that
this is one of the best sources of information of this Rx
http://www.tinussmits.com/english/
Do note that he uses Carc. Mixed or Co. rather than the Carc. from one
source. I have to admit that this is what I am now using and I prefer it as
it seems to act more gently.
(Talking of which - the girl with the abscesses in her groin reported that
they are all popping out and discharging. It appears they are all over the
top of her legs as well. As I may have said she will only let her Mum see
them. I think the Carc. 1M is still working but have prescribed some Silica
6 to hurry it along. Until I get mum along as a patient I really don't think
I can do much about the arguing between them. )
I also have the Bailey book that gives a bit on children and I would
recommend for someone with limited knowledge of the Rx . However I really
don't understand how to use the charts at the back of the book!!
Regards
Rochelle
www.rochellemarsden.co.uk
been allowed to express themselves in a strict household or those who have
been given no boundaries and been allowed to do as they wanted. Also those
families which have a family conference to decide things!! I have found that
this is one of the best sources of information of this Rx
http://www.tinussmits.com/english/
Do note that he uses Carc. Mixed or Co. rather than the Carc. from one
source. I have to admit that this is what I am now using and I prefer it as
it seems to act more gently.
(Talking of which - the girl with the abscesses in her groin reported that
they are all popping out and discharging. It appears they are all over the
top of her legs as well. As I may have said she will only let her Mum see
them. I think the Carc. 1M is still working but have prescribed some Silica
6 to hurry it along. Until I get mum along as a patient I really don't think
I can do much about the arguing between them. )
I also have the Bailey book that gives a bit on children and I would
recommend for someone with limited knowledge of the Rx . However I really
don't understand how to use the charts at the back of the book!!
Regards
Rochelle
www.rochellemarsden.co.uk
-
jdurfeeathome
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: carcinosin children
In a message dated 11/3/2002 1:07:02 PM Mountain Standard Time,
shannonnelson@tds.net writes:
If you get a chance to read Ramankrishnan's book you will see that he rarely
uses carc. alone in the treatment of cancer but in conjunction with the most
similar remedy for the disease picture or even what might seem as a
consitiutional remedy. Through the action of the one or two remedies (and
sometimes three), given alternately over a few weeks for months at a time he
appears to cover the totality of the disease and cure very progressed cases
perverted by allopathic treatment.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
shannonnelson@tds.net writes:
If you get a chance to read Ramankrishnan's book you will see that he rarely
uses carc. alone in the treatment of cancer but in conjunction with the most
similar remedy for the disease picture or even what might seem as a
consitiutional remedy. Through the action of the one or two remedies (and
sometimes three), given alternately over a few weeks for months at a time he
appears to cover the totality of the disease and cure very progressed cases
perverted by allopathic treatment.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Jon van Hoffen
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: carcinosin children
Rochelle wrote:
"I have found that
this is one of the best sources of information of this Rx
http://www.tinussmits.com/english/"
I expected another raving email from Dave Hartley as a reply to this
message(;-), as tinus smits , with his "Inspriring Homoeopathy" , with the
universal layers, strays a fair distance from the straight and narrow of
classical homoeopathy. I don't mean to say that he does not make a valuable
contribution, but his picture of Carcinocin should be placed in the total
concept, the totality of his ideas.
I must say that I, personally do not accept the idea of universal layers in
the sense that Tinus Smits describes them and in mho reduction of the whole
of humanity into seven remedies is simplifying the picture a bit.
Jon van Hoffen
"I have found that
this is one of the best sources of information of this Rx
http://www.tinussmits.com/english/"
I expected another raving email from Dave Hartley as a reply to this
message(;-), as tinus smits , with his "Inspriring Homoeopathy" , with the
universal layers, strays a fair distance from the straight and narrow of
classical homoeopathy. I don't mean to say that he does not make a valuable
contribution, but his picture of Carcinocin should be placed in the total
concept, the totality of his ideas.
I must say that I, personally do not accept the idea of universal layers in
the sense that Tinus Smits describes them and in mho reduction of the whole
of humanity into seven remedies is simplifying the picture a bit.
Jon van Hoffen
-
Dave Hartley
- Posts: 992
- Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:47 pm
Re: carcinosin children
To a person who has only a hammer, everything looks like nails.
Better for a homeopath to have a full toolkit, and learn to individualize
rather than lump together.
I'm afraid that Smits' possibly valuable input is somewhat tainted by his
incredible ideas of only 1/2 dozen or so remedies directly related to the
only 1/2 dozen "core-issues" of humanity
It seems to be very difficult for many who come to homeopathy having been
trained first as N.D. or OMD to understand homeopathy as *other* than some
extra methodology thru which to exert their N.D. or OMD philosophy of
healing.
Dave Hartley
www.Mr-Notebook.com
www.localcomputermart.com/dave
Seattle, WA 425.820.7443
Asheville, NC 828.285.0240
Better for a homeopath to have a full toolkit, and learn to individualize
rather than lump together.
I'm afraid that Smits' possibly valuable input is somewhat tainted by his
incredible ideas of only 1/2 dozen or so remedies directly related to the
only 1/2 dozen "core-issues" of humanity
It seems to be very difficult for many who come to homeopathy having been
trained first as N.D. or OMD to understand homeopathy as *other* than some
extra methodology thru which to exert their N.D. or OMD philosophy of
healing.
Dave Hartley
www.Mr-Notebook.com
www.localcomputermart.com/dave
Seattle, WA 425.820.7443
Asheville, NC 828.285.0240
Re: carcinosin children
Dear Shannon, thank you for sharing the amazing story about "your little
dancer" - so pleased it had a happy resolve.
In fact your story kept me awake for hours last night!
What interested me was the reaction to the Med. in utero and it got me
thinking about all the magical happenings during gestation and especially
about the formation of genetic memory, notions of deja vu, the moments in
time when we acquire the predetermined path of health and disease etc.
I had been reading Didier Grandgeorge's article about Heredity and the grief
aspects of Urtica Urens working through 3 generations and it begs the
question of how far back we need to go to understand someone's diseased
state.
I have a case next week of a young infant who has started waking at night
for no apparent reason but her father has terrible nightmares and my
instinct is it will be a fascinating case.
This brings me round (sort of) to WHY Carcinosin mimics so many other
remedies. Is it because it is accumalative, acquiring all the remedies from
the past generations into one person, then it throws out symptoms of all
those remedies and begins to grow just like a tumour.
Well these might be ramblings of someone who hasn't slept too much but I was
wondering whether the Med. awoke something in "J" which went back a few
generations, maybe the same happened to you, in utero, or something along
those lines. Just a few thoughts, and thanks again for sharing your story.
Best wishes, Joy
dancer" - so pleased it had a happy resolve.
In fact your story kept me awake for hours last night!
What interested me was the reaction to the Med. in utero and it got me
thinking about all the magical happenings during gestation and especially
about the formation of genetic memory, notions of deja vu, the moments in
time when we acquire the predetermined path of health and disease etc.
I had been reading Didier Grandgeorge's article about Heredity and the grief
aspects of Urtica Urens working through 3 generations and it begs the
question of how far back we need to go to understand someone's diseased
state.
I have a case next week of a young infant who has started waking at night
for no apparent reason but her father has terrible nightmares and my
instinct is it will be a fascinating case.
This brings me round (sort of) to WHY Carcinosin mimics so many other
remedies. Is it because it is accumalative, acquiring all the remedies from
the past generations into one person, then it throws out symptoms of all
those remedies and begins to grow just like a tumour.
Well these might be ramblings of someone who hasn't slept too much but I was
wondering whether the Med. awoke something in "J" which went back a few
generations, maybe the same happened to you, in utero, or something along
those lines. Just a few thoughts, and thanks again for sharing your story.
Best wishes, Joy
-
Jasbir Kaur Villaschi
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 10:00 pm
Re: carcinosin children
Jan,
It's now a case of impatience on the parent's part ( child's problems cutting into valuable recreational time or feeling of being pressured by child's demands) rather than the older type of reasoning which was more to do with discipline and obeying one's parents.
Jas
Jan Klüssendorf wrote:
It's now a case of impatience on the parent's part ( child's problems cutting into valuable recreational time or feeling of being pressured by child's demands) rather than the older type of reasoning which was more to do with discipline and obeying one's parents.
Jas
Jan Klüssendorf wrote: