I have always felt that this concept of "memory of water" was a mistake to emphasize, since there is no proof about the "mechanism" of homeopathy. 200+ years later and we still dont know the mechanism. We just can demonstrate the effectiveness of the remedies. And that is enough. That is all that is needed until a full mechanism can be proven.
Just because it can be demonstrated that diluted succussed substances in water can show a weak emf field means nothing.
But now everywhere you look the "skeptics" say that this memory of water concept is accepted dogma of homeopathy. it makes homeopathy appear ludicrous. Most of the time our remedies dont even have any (or very much) water in them e.g. sugar pills.
This from Snopes:
https://www.snopes.com/2016/11/21/feder ... -efficacy/
Roger
memory of water
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Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD
- Posts: 2279
- Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: memory of water
If you look at the concept of clathrates, which is well known in water physics, the "memory" of water becomes obvious.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
www.naturamedica.co.nz
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
www.naturamedica.co.nz
Re: memory of water
But there is no mechanism that connects "the memory of water" to the changes in health caused by the properly prescribed homeopathic remedy. Until that mechanism is proven, I think that talking about the memory of water in relationship to homeopathy sounds looney toons. And it distracts from what can be proven about homeopathy and easily experienced which is the effects of homeopathic provings, which is very sound science, despite the lack of a known mechanism.
Most of our remedies that are given dont even have any water in them, or extremely little, depending on the humidity of the environment!
Someday the memory of water May be linked to the homeopathic effect, until then it is a distracting dead end.
Roger
Most of our remedies that are given dont even have any water in them, or extremely little, depending on the humidity of the environment!
Someday the memory of water May be linked to the homeopathic effect, until then it is a distracting dead end.
Roger
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Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: memory of water
Not sure I agree with you.
First, the issue was always whether there was anything to the remedies at all. The water issue
demonstrates there is energy frequency to the remedies.
Second, most of them are made in water/alcohol and then distributed via sugar tablets or as a liquid.
And third, even if we could demonstrate the exact method of its working it would mean nothing good
for homeopathy. I believe there is more than enought lab science and study behind homeopathy for it
to be considered legit. Many allopathic drugs have minimal understanding of they work and they are
approved and accepted. Doesn't aspirin fall into this category?
And if it were proven to mainstream satisfaction, either it would be immediately labeled a toxic drug to patented and controlled, or
still dissed as having any efficacy. I actually prefer it remaining in limbo for now.
At least until we get legitimacy in the US or until the cows come home!
t
First, the issue was always whether there was anything to the remedies at all. The water issue
demonstrates there is energy frequency to the remedies.
Second, most of them are made in water/alcohol and then distributed via sugar tablets or as a liquid.
And third, even if we could demonstrate the exact method of its working it would mean nothing good
for homeopathy. I believe there is more than enought lab science and study behind homeopathy for it
to be considered legit. Many allopathic drugs have minimal understanding of they work and they are
approved and accepted. Doesn't aspirin fall into this category?
And if it were proven to mainstream satisfaction, either it would be immediately labeled a toxic drug to patented and controlled, or
still dissed as having any efficacy. I actually prefer it remaining in limbo for now.
At least until we get legitimacy in the US or until the cows come home!
t
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Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD
- Posts: 2279
- Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: memory of water
You have to take the scenic road for that 
Look up most of our plant and mineral remedies, then compare them to their uses in phytotherapy and naturopathy, first through the traditional way, not really demonstrated except by their results, like homeopathy, but them through the lens of phytopharmacology (see the books by Mills and Bone for example), their active components, their role in physiology (especially minerals), their role through nutritional medicine, e.g the demonstrated health properties of tomatoes vs Lycospersicum.
Lactose globules have a lot (forgot the number) of water in them, and so does the powder, see "Scientific foundations of homeopathy" and the work of Agnastopoulos (spelling???).
OK??
Joe.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
www.naturamedica.co.nz
Look up most of our plant and mineral remedies, then compare them to their uses in phytotherapy and naturopathy, first through the traditional way, not really demonstrated except by their results, like homeopathy, but them through the lens of phytopharmacology (see the books by Mills and Bone for example), their active components, their role in physiology (especially minerals), their role through nutritional medicine, e.g the demonstrated health properties of tomatoes vs Lycospersicum.
Lactose globules have a lot (forgot the number) of water in them, and so does the powder, see "Scientific foundations of homeopathy" and the work of Agnastopoulos (spelling???).
OK??
Joe.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
www.naturamedica.co.nz
Re: memory of water
The central issue is do they work.
No one cares about a fictitious mechanism or what is or isnt in them, if they dont work.
We dont need to show a mechanism; we need to show that they work.
Clinical trials seem to be a dead end road to legitimacy. The "scientific" community always discounts any positive trials as being not performed with acceptable scientific rigor. The last meta-analysis that I saw they only chose 8 studies out of the hundreds available, as being performed to acceptable standards. Of course those 8 studies showed that it didnt work.
I think we should work to show that Provings are legitimate scientific method.
That is the basis of homeopathy.
Roger
No one cares about a fictitious mechanism or what is or isnt in them, if they dont work.
We dont need to show a mechanism; we need to show that they work.
Clinical trials seem to be a dead end road to legitimacy. The "scientific" community always discounts any positive trials as being not performed with acceptable scientific rigor. The last meta-analysis that I saw they only chose 8 studies out of the hundreds available, as being performed to acceptable standards. Of course those 8 studies showed that it didnt work.
I think we should work to show that Provings are legitimate scientific method.
That is the basis of homeopathy.
Roger
Re: memory of water
I think the issue has always been do they work, not what is in them.
Some fictitious mechanism, like memory of water, is just a embarrassing distraction at this point. It is not one of the core elements of homeopathy as the skeptics all say now.
Clinical studies are never going to convince the "scientists" because they always find some way to invalidate each study that doesnt confirm their bias. As I remember, the last meta-analysis that Proved homeopathy doesn't work, only used 8 studies that they found acceptable.
I think we should emphasize the Homeopathic Proving which is a scientifically repeatable experiment that anyone can experience. The only people that trust homeopathy are those that experience it personally.
Roger
Some fictitious mechanism, like memory of water, is just a embarrassing distraction at this point. It is not one of the core elements of homeopathy as the skeptics all say now.
Clinical studies are never going to convince the "scientists" because they always find some way to invalidate each study that doesnt confirm their bias. As I remember, the last meta-analysis that Proved homeopathy doesn't work, only used 8 studies that they found acceptable.
I think we should emphasize the Homeopathic Proving which is a scientifically repeatable experiment that anyone can experience. The only people that trust homeopathy are those that experience it personally.
Roger
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Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: memory of water
I disagree. I think 'they' know they work and are trying to find ways to discredit the remedies.
Let's remember who is the author of the propaganda--Drug corporations!
Will agree, though, that the argument that the remedies are no more than placebo has been
used to distract the homeopathic community, putting them on the defensive. Thus, all the good,
liberal tactic of trying to explain ad nauseum why/how the remedies work; what is the mechanism of
their working; and how water dilution when making remedies augments and/or carries the energy.
It would be better if the homeopathic community struck out against big pharma decades ago and
began assaulting their fraudulent 'research' with everything from biased design of studies at the
start to manipulation of study subjects and data, to outright removal of subjects down to misinterpretation
of results. And this to have been done in conjunction with all the health and environmental damage the
drugs being constantly exposed.
t
Let's remember who is the author of the propaganda--Drug corporations!
Will agree, though, that the argument that the remedies are no more than placebo has been
used to distract the homeopathic community, putting them on the defensive. Thus, all the good,
liberal tactic of trying to explain ad nauseum why/how the remedies work; what is the mechanism of
their working; and how water dilution when making remedies augments and/or carries the energy.
It would be better if the homeopathic community struck out against big pharma decades ago and
began assaulting their fraudulent 'research' with everything from biased design of studies at the
start to manipulation of study subjects and data, to outright removal of subjects down to misinterpretation
of results. And this to have been done in conjunction with all the health and environmental damage the
drugs being constantly exposed.
t
Re: memory of water
Tanya comments: I disagree. I think 'they' know they work and are trying to find ways to discredit the remedies.
-------------------------
Evidence sure points this way. Corporate is trying to restrict access to the remedies, step by step.
Most of the medical profession doesn't even know anything about the Organon or how to use the remedies. And, I don't think they have the "mind set" to understand it. (Of course there are exceptions, Dr. Roz.)
Atb,
Leilanae
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Evidence sure points this way. Corporate is trying to restrict access to the remedies, step by step.
Most of the medical profession doesn't even know anything about the Organon or how to use the remedies. And, I don't think they have the "mind set" to understand it. (Of course there are exceptions, Dr. Roz.)
Atb,
Leilanae
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Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: memory of water
Can't remember where I saw a phrase referring to the drug/medical cabal as a cult.
This is a word that I have been using myself this year after a couple of nasty dealings with medical people.
They are incapable of hearing anything other than their own voices. Worse is their hostility to anything
that contradicts. It is called Cognitive Dissonance which means these people will literally go to war with
you if you try to insert a new/different concept. And given their power one needs to be careful as these
people will go after you legally removing your children or institutionalizing you to force compliance with
drug use!
t
This is a word that I have been using myself this year after a couple of nasty dealings with medical people.
They are incapable of hearing anything other than their own voices. Worse is their hostility to anything
that contradicts. It is called Cognitive Dissonance which means these people will literally go to war with
you if you try to insert a new/different concept. And given their power one needs to be careful as these
people will go after you legally removing your children or institutionalizing you to force compliance with
drug use!
t