[ARH-Hom] Fever in children

[Soroush Ebrahimi]

The doctor Liz refers to below is

Edward Snelson Consultant in Paediatrics and Paediatric Emergency Medicine

https://www.sheffieldchildrens.nhs.uk/t ... ment-team/

Soroush

From: ARH-Homeopathy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ARH-Homeopathy@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 06 October 2017 10:47
To: ARH-Homeopathy@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ARH-Hom] Fever in children

I never thought I’d read this comment, written by a GP in the latest edition of Pulse!

He talks first about so-called ‘febrile convulsions’ and says that it’s long been assumed that it is the fever that causes the convulsion. However, further research shows that it isn’t the fever – in fact, it’s the infection (or vaccination – my addition!). And therefore we should not be fixated on bringing down temperatures in children! It’s only necessary if the child is really feeling unwell and it’s interfering with the need to drink, for example.

His conclusion:

So spread the good news – feve r is not dangerous to children. If anyone disagrees with you, an interesting approach is to ask them what the number is for a safe temperature – the temperature below which there are no dangers from the fever. They won’t be able to give you a valid number because there isn’t one. In fact, you could ask them for a number that defines a fever. Interestingly, there is no widely accepted temperature that defines being febrile. But that doesn’t matter too much, since fever is a sign of illness, and it is the illness that causes the problems, not the fever itself.

Well, well!

Liz

[Ellen Madono]

I believe that the body heats up to overcome the infection. Without the fever, healing of the infection will be incomplete. Is this true?
Ellen Madono

[Soroush Ebrahimi]

At higher temperatures (37 deg C +) the rate of multiplication of microorganisms is reduced and the rate of multiplication of WBC is increased.

Reducing temperature is helping the enemy!!

Soroush
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 10 October 2017 14:55
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] FW: [ARH-Hom] Fever in children
I believe that the body heats up to overcome the infection. Without the fever, healing of the infection will be incomplete. Is this true?

Ellen Madono
The doctor Liz refers to below is

Edward Snelson Consultant in Paediatrics and Paediatric Emergency Medicine

https://www.sheffieldchildrens.nhs.uk/t ... ment-team/

Soroush

From: ARH-Homeopathy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ARH-Homeopathy@yahoogroups.com ]
Sent: 06 October 2017 10:47
To: ARH-Homeopathy@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ARH-Hom] Fever in children

I never thought I’d read this comment, written by a GP in the latest edition of Pulse!

He talks first about so-called ‘febrile convulsions’ and says that it’s long been assumed that it is the fever that causes the convulsion. However, further research shows that it isn’t the fever – in fact, it’s the infection (or vaccination – my addition!). And therefore we should not be fixated on bringing down temperatures in children! It’s only necessary if the child is really feeling unwell and it’s interfering with the need to drink, for example.

His conclusion:

So spread the good news – feve r is not dangerous to children. If anyone disagrees with you, an interesting approach is to ask them what the number is for a safe temperature – the temperature below which there are no dangers from the fever. They won’t be able to give you a valid number because there isn’t one. In fact, you could ask them for a number that defines a fever. Interestingly, there is no widely accepted temperature that defines being febrile. But that doesn’t matter too much, since fever is a sign of illness, and it is the illness that causes the problems, not the fever itself.

Well, well!

Liz

[yerewan]

yes,,the very reason for fever is to initiate and
activate various immunological processes in the body ..
it kinda awakens the body to react ..who's in da house !!?
.. and makes the system get rid of the intruder
-will-

[Ellen Madono]

Hi Soroush,

I couldn't find the article that you kindly mentioned. It's very interesting that there is research on the relationship between inflammation and convulsions. It would be nice to know the source. To a person who doesn't understand the physiology, it seems like a semantic argument to say that inflammation does not equal fever or vice versa. your comment that heat increases WBC and kills pathogens is useful. But it also, I would think, does damage.

If you have a wound on the skin that is heated up swollen and red, commonly you want to reduce the inflammation so that the congestion around the wound will be decreased and more blood will get to the area. So you put an ice pack on the area. What's the situation inside the body? Is it at the same? If you have a burn or a sprain, you want to cool it physically at first. But you don't continue to cool it physically. Anyone would think that allopathic medicine that cool the fever, in the same way, would be useful? What's the counterargument?

If you look at the Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Febrile_seizure They say that brain inflammations, meningitis and encephalitis, are real dangers, but are unlikely because of the widespread vaccinations to microorganisms that commonly cause these infections. " However, in locales in which children are immunized for pneumococcal and Haemophilus influenzae , the prevalence of bacterial meningitis is low. If a child has recovered and is acting normally, bacterial meningitis is very unlikely." I believe these are organisms that already live in the body, so you have to ask why certain children react to these organisms. If the cause is not microorganisms or metabolism, then it runs in families. I'm not sure how metabolism would cause a fever. Perhaps dehydration?

I would think that the likelihood of a normal healthy child suffering from after effects of convulsions would be the first consideration before giving allopathic medications. They are low but, any parent would want to know how to evaluate their child's chances.

I don't have tons of experience, but catching a fever early, or any kind of acute infection, is easy to treat with homeopathy. Later the symptoms become more intense and complicated. You want to avoid that situation.

Best,
Ellen

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

The congestion and redness around a wound is a sign that there is more blood flow, oxygen and nutrients coming in for fight and repair...at the same time, because of the increase in flow, there is local swelling and because of the increased metabolic activity there is increase in temperature, both of which excite pain sensitive nervous ending, which cannot discriminate whether it is for a good cause or a bad cause, transmitting the information of "pain" to the brain, and pain = bad to all of us but the masochists....hence the desire to diminish those effects.

The same phenomenon applies inside the body, with the extra problem that swelling can be dangerous in confined spaces (brain...), increased temperature also modifies the function of adjacent organs and systems and there is an accumulation of debris and toxins that can impair the function of other local organs while waiting to be eliminated...so here we have a balance to find between helping normal and healthy processes, preventing them to become "exaggerated" and supporting all systems so that normality is restored as fast as possible.

Somehow, and I do not (yet?) have a (proper) explanation how this happens, well indicated homeopathic remedies have that ability to control all those functions without doing any harm...herbs do that too but when you examine their indications and uses, you quickly realise that they do that "homeopathically" even though phytochemistry has nice explanations for their actions. Allopathic treatment simply either lowers or drops the natural physiological reactions, or increases the threshold by which we interpret the sensations as harmful: anti-inflammatories will lower the inflammation, central painkillers like opiates will allow for more tolerance (I feel the pain but I do not care).

That is where clinical judgement comes in: there will be times when you absolutely need to lower a fever no matter how, because too high too long will denature enzymes everywhere in the body, leading to a shutdown of organs and system...you just need to know when to use what in an appropriate manner.

Better?

Joe.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"

www.naturamedica.co.nz

[Ellen Madono]

Dr. Roz,
I love your generalizations. It is hard to see the big picture of inflammation as the body might see it.
I put your comment up on my site. http://tokyohomeopathy.com/what-are-fev ... flamation/
Best,
Ellen

[Soroush Ebrahimi]

Beautiful put Joe – Thank you.

Also Ellen mentioned burns.

If you read the Organon Hn mentions treating minor burns with heat. It works well and despite the initial discomfort there is long lasting pain free period and quick healing.
I have tried it myself.

Having a mixer tap helps. Place the burned area under the flow of tepid water and slowly reduce the cold water making the water warmer and warmer going towards hot. The burning sensation increases and you would want to withdraw the burnt area, but persist and go for a little longer/hotter and then with draw.

The pain subsides quickly and the skin heals fast.
My niece was frying some aubergines – they have a habit of spiting oil. She got some hot oil on her arm and I persuaded her to use the above method. A week later she came to me and said look uncle, the burnt area from last week is hardly noticeable, but the other from two weeks ago (cold treatment) is still not completely healed.
QED.

Soroush
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 11 October 2017 02:43
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] FW: [ARH-Hom] Fever in children
The congestion and redness around a wound is a sign that there is more blood flow, oxygen and nutrients coming in for fight and repair...at the same time, because of the increase in flow, there is local swelling and because of the increased metabolic activity there is increase in temperature, both of which excite pain sensitive nervous ending, which cannot discriminate whether it is for a good cause or a bad cause, transmitting the information of "pain" to the brain, and pain = bad to all of us but the masochists....hence the desire to diminish those effects.

The same phenomenon applies inside the body, with the extra problem that swelling can be dangerous in confined spaces (brain...), increased temperature also modifies the function of adjacent organs and systems and there is an accumulation of debris and toxins that can impair the function of other local organs while waiting to be eliminated...so here we have a balance to find between helping normal and healthy processes, preventing them to become "exaggerated" and supporting all systems so that normality is restored as fast as possible.

Somehow, and I do not (yet?) have a (proper) explanation how this happens, well indicated homeopathic remedies have that ability to control all those functions without doing any harm...herbs do that too but when you examine their indications and uses, you quickly realise that they do that "homeopathically" even though phytochemistry has nice explanations for their actions. Allopathic treatment simply either lowers or drops the natural physiological reactions, or increases the threshold by which we interpret the sensations as harmful: anti-inflammatories will lower the inflammation, central painkillers like opiates will allow for more tolerance (I feel the pain but I do not care).

That is where clinical judgement comes in: there will be times when you absolutely need to lower a fever no matter how, because too high too long will denature enzymes everywhere in the body, leading to a shutdown of organs and system...you just need to know when to use what in an appropriate manner.

Better?

Joe.

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
www.naturamedica.co.nz

[pb000014]

Hi Joe,

Forgive me if some of this is written simplistically but I am trying to lay down the step by step process to answer your statement below.

The body has a stressor. The vital force reacts to restore health. (homeostasis).
In a healthy state, this process occurs and achieves its desired objective. So a virus attacks, the vital force mounts a response. Some fever, inflammation, wbc mobilised. Threat is neutralized, health restored. End of story.

When the system is in a state of ill health, ie a constitutional susceptibility, then repair cannot happen appropriately. It may be slow. It may be misdirected etc. Then the fever will continue to rise. Inflammation will increase etc.

Behind the infection or trauma or local effects of a stressor, is the underlying inner disease state. For example an arnica patient will tend to bruise easily. By the action of the remedy (simillimum) to oppose the inner disease state (fighting fire with fire), the vital force is freed from the inner disease state. The remedy effect now has temporary control of the vital force.

If the effect is too strong, ie excessive dosing, then we see a major aggravation of symptoms. Ideal dose however quickly dissipates, and the vital force is once again under healthy control by the "inner spirit" and can achieve homeostasis, so infection is cleared and fever comes down.

So that's the process, and as we know the remedy does this in the least harmful way, if dosing is carefully chosen.

So the remedy doesn't control the process. It removes the inner state that is stopping the vital force from doing its thing properly and effectively.

We don't need to treat every bump or infection. If a child has a cold and is really healthy, they usually will present with general symptoms ie no characteristics. Without characteristics you cannot prescribe, but it's not necessary in this case. The condition will resolve without problem simply by adhering to common sense principles. Bed rest, lots of liquids etc. That is, don't put extra stress on the vital force. If there are characteristics, it means there is an underlying inner disease state. And that will give the remedy.

Regards,
Paul

Sent from my Samsung device
Somehow, and I do not (yet?) have a (proper) explanation how this happens, well indicated homeopathic remedies have that ability to control all those functions without doing any harm...herbs do that too but when you examine their indications and uses, you quickly realise that they do that "homeopathically" even though phytochemistry has nice explanations for their actions. Allopathic treatment simply either lowers or drops the natural physiological reactions, or increases the threshold by which we interpret the sensations as harmful: anti-inflammatories will lower the inflammation, central painkillers like opiates will allow for more tolerance (I feel the pain but I do not care).

That is where clinical judgement comes in: there will be times when you absolutely need to lower a fever no matter how, because too high too long will denature enzymes everywhere in the body, leading to a shutdown of organs and system...you just need to know when to use what in an appropriate manner.

Better?

Joe.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"

www.naturamedica.co.nz

[pb000014]

Ditto, I had a burn on the weekend. Same result.

Regards,
Paul
Sent from my Samsung device