I have read the recommended full article
Expression of multiple horizontally acquired genes is a hallmark of both vertebrate and invertebrate genomes
Alastair Crisp1 †, Chiara Boschetti1 †, Malcolm Perry1 2 3 , Alan Tunnacliffe1 * and Gos Micklem2 3 *
It is WAY above my level of understanding when going into the details of the research, but I focused on quite a few
sentences that are nicely summarized in their conclusion:
"Although observed rates of acquisition of horizontally transferred genes in eukaryotes are generally lower than in prokaryotes, it appears that, far from being a rare occurrence, HGT has contributed to the evolution of many, perhaps all, animals and that the process is ongoing in most lineages. Between tens and hundreds of foreign genes are expressed in all the animals we surveyed, including humans. The majority of these genes are concerned with metabolism, suggesting that HGT contributes to biochemical diversification during animal evolution.
"
This fits perfectly well, as far as I can understand it, my conclusion that "miasms" can and are integrated in the genome.
The mechanism of it is interesting but irrelevant.
--
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
www.naturamedica.co.nz
Genetics and Homeopathy
-
Bob Needham
- Posts: 354
- Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: Genetics and Homeopathy
Makes sense to me. I have been led to understand that our miasms underly our predisposition and susceptibilities to morbific exposures. If this is correct, then I can see no possible way that they are not intertwined in our genome. If so, is it not reasonable that they also underly, at least in part, the ICT found in each.
bob
bob
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: Genetics and Homeopathy
Joe,
There is a difference of scale and also of purpose here.
Humans have a lot of genes - hundreds as they point out - which also occur in other species that developed before humans developed (by humans I mean homo sapiens in particular - us). We acquired the genes as man evolved, most of them already acquired by the Neanderthal stage.
Hundreds of genes to acquire during an evolution of multiple thousands of years of formation of humans, means one gene acquired by the entire human evolutionary process oonly once in MANY years. (Miasms occur all over the planet all the time.) But it did not go in ones, it occurred due to "cross-pollination".
These are *evolutionary* genes this article discusses, not disease genes (which have never been shown to exist in a genome of man or animal). They include for example proteins for digestion of certain foods, and proteins for production of pigments (eg the pigment for red hair in people, cats, fish and orangutans is the SAME gene) and the WAY the transfer occurs (which they call horizontal) is by interbreeding of closely related species, such as Neanderthals with Homo sapiens for example. That cross is now KNOWN to have occurred. Neanderthals had specific genetic advantages over homo sapiens, which were transferred "horizontally" to Homo sapiens - as we now know from research - by interbreeding.
The term "horizontal" is used when such an interbreeding of SPECIES transfers genes all in one generation to another species and the family tree lacks them before that interbreedig but has them after it. (A horizontal line in the family tree occurs which suddenly has new genes in a species, "stolen" from another species.) The actual genepool increases. (Genepool is ALL the genes seen within a species.)
This is differentiated from non-horizontal acquisition of genes by the normal method of getting it from parents, grandparents etc etc - from genes within the "genepool of a species" up to that point, in a VERTICAL line.
It is fascinating proof of the mechanism of evolution and this article is all to fo with how species evolved, and acquired new genes "horizontally" - from other species interbreeding - as oppsed to vertical inheritance - from forebears.
But it does not apply to diseases.
It is research towards what genes were acquired along our evolutionary path from single cell animals (from which we also have genes) all the way through evolution to the complex organism called man.
The quantity of common genes in any life form on the planet is quite amazing - and we now know it was acquired gradually through horizontal acquisistion more than by mutation. (There used to be a theory that all the diversity came from mutations. Nobody wanted to think they were related to apes. This horizontal gene transfer (by interbreeding) disproves the mutation option as the only way evolution occurred, and specific research on DNA shows where some of the interbreedings actually occurred, using archeological specimens. It is all fascinatig but is no help in understanding miasms.
Miasms are however very obviously part of the epigene mechanism, only fully understood in this century though we have known about "switch gene" and "operator gene" existence since at least the 1960s. We just did not know where these "switch genes" were located or exactly how they worked. We do now.
It is an amazingly simple mechanism involving making material to block physical access to a gene - and an equally simple mechanism to do the opposite - to make a specific gene physically accessible to use. Geneticists used to think this huge area of material (98%) surrounding the DNA chromosomes that are the actual genes (2%) was "junk DNA" - a common arrogance of scientists who do not understand why nature put something somewhere.
Instead, this 98% of the volume of genetic-related material is all switches that determine what genes are usable and what genes are not usable in the DNA part.
The DNA is also more clever than man had realized. It works in "reading frames", greatly multiplying up the options for its use. This explains why so much epigene material works on so little DNA. If you think of a string of DNA bits, with four different colors randomly along a string. A gene can be a short part or a long part of the string. Ou might oputline the gene with a "frame" to mark which gene you are talking about. But then you can move the frame, to a slightly different position and/or length, with some of the same bits as you had plus some more or some less, and that "reads" a different gene. So the DNA allows MANY options for gene implementation along it length according to the "reading frame" in use at the time.
Some diseases are genuinely DNA diseases. These are the ones due to mutations, such as a missing piece in a frame, or an extra piece in a frame.... (or created by Monsanto) . Some are innocuous but others can be nasty. Rarely a beneficial mutation occurs.
These mutation chahges ALSO can add to evolutionary progress, when a beneficial muttion occurs and narural selection allows it to be passed on. But as the article is implying without saying so in so many words (it is just what geneticists like to be on about), this is the rare event, relative to interbreeding for evolutionary explanations of increased genepool.
Back to the "epigene layer":
It is HERE - in the 98% of VARIABLE material - varied by EXTERNAL events - (not internal mutations or crossbreeding aquisitions) - consisting of gene access switches - that miasms can be stored, passed on, and implemented. This is area which has switches for whether a person can readily get a particular type of cancer, or parkinsons or any number of other diseases. A miasm fits perfectly, into this mechanism. It is this 98% of "stuff" other than genes, that can be manipulated by external factors such as famine, disease etc. Nutritional events have also been shown to both cause epigene switche, AND to unswitch them back to beneficial. So not only homeopathy can do this - nutrition also can. We shoud use both of course
I predict geneticists will find there is more complexity to the epigene switches than they currently know about. For example they have yet to explain why external life factors of the grandmother affect the grandsons but not granddaughters in some instances, and external factors of the grandfather affect the granddaughters but not grandsons in some cases and so on. Some of these influences result in positive effect (even though the event was negative), and others pass down negatives or positive effects directly. We do not yet understand this in detail - just that epigene switches are involved somehow.
The key is that the switch material around the genes is affected by life experiences and NOT by genetics. SO that it is changed from external events during a lifetime.
The chemical implementation of a switch involves acetylation or methylation of a chunk of this material, in such a way that it either clutters up the gene so much (as if putting it in a safe) that the cell metabolism cannot use it - or it undoes the clutter and makes it accessible.
"Putting it in a safe" may equate to your telling the miasm to go to sleep. But really the miasm is then missing/cured, as the gene is in the healthy situation - either accessible or not, wichever is healthier for that gene - and THAT position will be passed on to offspring...
Some genes are beneficial when exposed, others are deleterious if exposed, and cause illness.
Other genes are deleterious when exposed and cause illness - and it is beneficial to hide them.
The specific llnesses Hahnemann calls miasms DO use these switch gene mechanisms.
Hahnemann was just amazingly insightful in even seeing that miasms could be acquired within a lifetime and passed on. It was in about 2002 that geneticists caught up a bit (a "bit" only - as geneticits/medics/science still have to figure out how to undo an epigene switch position at will - and Hahnemann had homeopathy doing it) , witih the epigene mechanism for aquiring and passing on diseases
I hope this helps.
Namaste,
Irene (whose love of genetics started at age 7)
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
There is a difference of scale and also of purpose here.
Humans have a lot of genes - hundreds as they point out - which also occur in other species that developed before humans developed (by humans I mean homo sapiens in particular - us). We acquired the genes as man evolved, most of them already acquired by the Neanderthal stage.
Hundreds of genes to acquire during an evolution of multiple thousands of years of formation of humans, means one gene acquired by the entire human evolutionary process oonly once in MANY years. (Miasms occur all over the planet all the time.) But it did not go in ones, it occurred due to "cross-pollination".
These are *evolutionary* genes this article discusses, not disease genes (which have never been shown to exist in a genome of man or animal). They include for example proteins for digestion of certain foods, and proteins for production of pigments (eg the pigment for red hair in people, cats, fish and orangutans is the SAME gene) and the WAY the transfer occurs (which they call horizontal) is by interbreeding of closely related species, such as Neanderthals with Homo sapiens for example. That cross is now KNOWN to have occurred. Neanderthals had specific genetic advantages over homo sapiens, which were transferred "horizontally" to Homo sapiens - as we now know from research - by interbreeding.
The term "horizontal" is used when such an interbreeding of SPECIES transfers genes all in one generation to another species and the family tree lacks them before that interbreedig but has them after it. (A horizontal line in the family tree occurs which suddenly has new genes in a species, "stolen" from another species.) The actual genepool increases. (Genepool is ALL the genes seen within a species.)
This is differentiated from non-horizontal acquisition of genes by the normal method of getting it from parents, grandparents etc etc - from genes within the "genepool of a species" up to that point, in a VERTICAL line.
It is fascinating proof of the mechanism of evolution and this article is all to fo with how species evolved, and acquired new genes "horizontally" - from other species interbreeding - as oppsed to vertical inheritance - from forebears.
But it does not apply to diseases.
It is research towards what genes were acquired along our evolutionary path from single cell animals (from which we also have genes) all the way through evolution to the complex organism called man.
The quantity of common genes in any life form on the planet is quite amazing - and we now know it was acquired gradually through horizontal acquisistion more than by mutation. (There used to be a theory that all the diversity came from mutations. Nobody wanted to think they were related to apes. This horizontal gene transfer (by interbreeding) disproves the mutation option as the only way evolution occurred, and specific research on DNA shows where some of the interbreedings actually occurred, using archeological specimens. It is all fascinatig but is no help in understanding miasms.
Miasms are however very obviously part of the epigene mechanism, only fully understood in this century though we have known about "switch gene" and "operator gene" existence since at least the 1960s. We just did not know where these "switch genes" were located or exactly how they worked. We do now.
It is an amazingly simple mechanism involving making material to block physical access to a gene - and an equally simple mechanism to do the opposite - to make a specific gene physically accessible to use. Geneticists used to think this huge area of material (98%) surrounding the DNA chromosomes that are the actual genes (2%) was "junk DNA" - a common arrogance of scientists who do not understand why nature put something somewhere.
Instead, this 98% of the volume of genetic-related material is all switches that determine what genes are usable and what genes are not usable in the DNA part.
The DNA is also more clever than man had realized. It works in "reading frames", greatly multiplying up the options for its use. This explains why so much epigene material works on so little DNA. If you think of a string of DNA bits, with four different colors randomly along a string. A gene can be a short part or a long part of the string. Ou might oputline the gene with a "frame" to mark which gene you are talking about. But then you can move the frame, to a slightly different position and/or length, with some of the same bits as you had plus some more or some less, and that "reads" a different gene. So the DNA allows MANY options for gene implementation along it length according to the "reading frame" in use at the time.
Some diseases are genuinely DNA diseases. These are the ones due to mutations, such as a missing piece in a frame, or an extra piece in a frame.... (or created by Monsanto) . Some are innocuous but others can be nasty. Rarely a beneficial mutation occurs.
These mutation chahges ALSO can add to evolutionary progress, when a beneficial muttion occurs and narural selection allows it to be passed on. But as the article is implying without saying so in so many words (it is just what geneticists like to be on about), this is the rare event, relative to interbreeding for evolutionary explanations of increased genepool.
Back to the "epigene layer":
It is HERE - in the 98% of VARIABLE material - varied by EXTERNAL events - (not internal mutations or crossbreeding aquisitions) - consisting of gene access switches - that miasms can be stored, passed on, and implemented. This is area which has switches for whether a person can readily get a particular type of cancer, or parkinsons or any number of other diseases. A miasm fits perfectly, into this mechanism. It is this 98% of "stuff" other than genes, that can be manipulated by external factors such as famine, disease etc. Nutritional events have also been shown to both cause epigene switche, AND to unswitch them back to beneficial. So not only homeopathy can do this - nutrition also can. We shoud use both of course
I predict geneticists will find there is more complexity to the epigene switches than they currently know about. For example they have yet to explain why external life factors of the grandmother affect the grandsons but not granddaughters in some instances, and external factors of the grandfather affect the granddaughters but not grandsons in some cases and so on. Some of these influences result in positive effect (even though the event was negative), and others pass down negatives or positive effects directly. We do not yet understand this in detail - just that epigene switches are involved somehow.
The key is that the switch material around the genes is affected by life experiences and NOT by genetics. SO that it is changed from external events during a lifetime.
The chemical implementation of a switch involves acetylation or methylation of a chunk of this material, in such a way that it either clutters up the gene so much (as if putting it in a safe) that the cell metabolism cannot use it - or it undoes the clutter and makes it accessible.
"Putting it in a safe" may equate to your telling the miasm to go to sleep. But really the miasm is then missing/cured, as the gene is in the healthy situation - either accessible or not, wichever is healthier for that gene - and THAT position will be passed on to offspring...
Some genes are beneficial when exposed, others are deleterious if exposed, and cause illness.
Other genes are deleterious when exposed and cause illness - and it is beneficial to hide them.
The specific llnesses Hahnemann calls miasms DO use these switch gene mechanisms.
Hahnemann was just amazingly insightful in even seeing that miasms could be acquired within a lifetime and passed on. It was in about 2002 that geneticists caught up a bit (a "bit" only - as geneticits/medics/science still have to figure out how to undo an epigene switch position at will - and Hahnemann had homeopathy doing it) , witih the epigene mechanism for aquiring and passing on diseases
I hope this helps.
Namaste,
Irene (whose love of genetics started at age 7)
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: Genetics and Homeopathy
Mm, although I tentatively agree with your conclusion, I want to quibble with the way you got there.
Predisposition and susceptibilities are influenced by MANY things, not just by the genes. Trauma, emotions, chemical exposure, even things like state of rest-or-fatigue, stress-or-balance, all of those things underlie our predispositions and susceptibilities.
Even life-lessons, culture and upbringing, even those things do.
(Would you agree?)
Shannon
Predisposition and susceptibilities are influenced by MANY things, not just by the genes. Trauma, emotions, chemical exposure, even things like state of rest-or-fatigue, stress-or-balance, all of those things underlie our predispositions and susceptibilities.
Even life-lessons, culture and upbringing, even those things do.
(Would you agree?)
Shannon
-
Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD
- Posts: 2279
- Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: Genetics and Homeopathy
I certainly agree, but are they transmitted to further generations other than by education and lifestyle?
That is the point I think we are all trying to make: what is present at birth and part of the make-up of the living being and what is a learned, acquired process... the therapeutic approach, if need be, is quite different, the way I see it and do it.
Joe.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
www.naturamedica.co.nz
That is the point I think we are all trying to make: what is present at birth and part of the make-up of the living being and what is a learned, acquired process... the therapeutic approach, if need be, is quite different, the way I see it and do it.
Joe.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
www.naturamedica.co.nz
-
Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: Genetics and Homeopathy
And then some experiences do affect the genes. This is the subject of epigenetics.
My understanding is that miasms are the epigenetic manifestation of profoundly impacting experiences whether
it is from illnesses, starvation, extreme fear, etc.
t
My understanding is that miasms are the epigenetic manifestation of profoundly impacting experiences whether
it is from illnesses, starvation, extreme fear, etc.
t
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: Genetics and Homeopathy
Dear Bob,
Please read my response to Joe.
It would be a mistake to consider it as you/he describe here.
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
Please read my response to Joe.
It would be a mistake to consider it as you/he describe here.
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: Genetics and Homeopathy
Not the genes. The genes are fixed.
Some experiences affect the epigene switch positions...the accessibility of genes, adn they ca only e active if they are accessible.
Yes, the swirch positions are the subject of epigenetics.
Not the genes.
Exactly so.
And this is the really important point to understand.
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
Some experiences affect the epigene switch positions...the accessibility of genes, adn they ca only e active if they are accessible.
Yes, the swirch positions are the subject of epigenetics.
Not the genes.
Exactly so.
And this is the really important point to understand.
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: Genetics and Homeopathy
Joe wrote: " but are they [e.g. traumas and emotions] transmitted to further generations other than by education and lifestyle?"
Certainly they are! I have read many examples over the years, but won't be able to make any citations. But examples include:
(a) in generational experiments with lab animals, it was found that certain nutritional deficiencies -- vitamin E being the one I remember, but others were mentioned -- would take a generation or more to show effects -- but would then similarly take a generation or more before they *stopped* showing effects in the offspring. (The "sins of the parents" being passed down…)
(b) starvation in humans has been well documented to affect their offspring *even* when the starvation had been corrected by the time of conception, and even when the starvation occurred in the father, not the mother. (I'm only "pretty sure" I'm remembering correctly that starvation is one that had effect even when on the father's side, not the mother's.)
© let's take one rather simple example of another way that trauma can be passed down *other than* via education and lifestyle. If, during pregnancy, a mother is running on "adrenal overload", if a time comes that her *own* adrenals are not able to keep up with her needs, her body will then also begin to draw on the resources of the fetus -- such that the baby may be born into a state *already* adrenally depleted, i.e. overstressed and overreactive from birth. I assume this would be part of the cause of babies born e.g. severely allergic, or with autoimmune conditions (but I am only assuming).
Spreaking from my own experience with adrenal depletion -- as well as with my "adrenally challenged" firstborn -- I can say that this is a situation that has profound effects, and is not necessarily self-correcting.
(d) and then of course there are the babies born to some alcoholic, or drug-using (or drug-treated) mothers. In that case I don't know how much of the damage is genetic or epigenetic, but it is certainly passed along regardless of education or lifestyle.
I don't know that "being born to an over-stressed mother" would have any claim to the term "miasm", and dont know 't what extent each of these would passed again to *future* offspring, but I would guess that it does…
Shannon
Certainly they are! I have read many examples over the years, but won't be able to make any citations. But examples include:
(a) in generational experiments with lab animals, it was found that certain nutritional deficiencies -- vitamin E being the one I remember, but others were mentioned -- would take a generation or more to show effects -- but would then similarly take a generation or more before they *stopped* showing effects in the offspring. (The "sins of the parents" being passed down…)
(b) starvation in humans has been well documented to affect their offspring *even* when the starvation had been corrected by the time of conception, and even when the starvation occurred in the father, not the mother. (I'm only "pretty sure" I'm remembering correctly that starvation is one that had effect even when on the father's side, not the mother's.)
© let's take one rather simple example of another way that trauma can be passed down *other than* via education and lifestyle. If, during pregnancy, a mother is running on "adrenal overload", if a time comes that her *own* adrenals are not able to keep up with her needs, her body will then also begin to draw on the resources of the fetus -- such that the baby may be born into a state *already* adrenally depleted, i.e. overstressed and overreactive from birth. I assume this would be part of the cause of babies born e.g. severely allergic, or with autoimmune conditions (but I am only assuming).
Spreaking from my own experience with adrenal depletion -- as well as with my "adrenally challenged" firstborn -- I can say that this is a situation that has profound effects, and is not necessarily self-correcting.
(d) and then of course there are the babies born to some alcoholic, or drug-using (or drug-treated) mothers. In that case I don't know how much of the damage is genetic or epigenetic, but it is certainly passed along regardless of education or lifestyle.
I don't know that "being born to an over-stressed mother" would have any claim to the term "miasm", and dont know 't what extent each of these would passed again to *future* offspring, but I would guess that it does…
Shannon
-
Bob Needham
- Posts: 354
- Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: Genetics and Homeopathy
Tanya that's is also my take on epigenetic as well. I have seen rheumatic states where the patient's father suffered rheumatic fever as a child. The father went on to live to his late 80's, but the son now a senior, suffers from rheumatic type aches and pains. My mind thinks epigenetics at work. I have tried to find a relationship between ancestral rheumatic fever and rheumatism in the offspring, but have not found any significant studies. Any thoughts or ideas on this?
bob
bob