Minutus

Can anyone find a rubric for thumb sucking. It is in a teenager so i suppose it is fairly unusual by this age.

Thanks
Rochelle

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Geukens in his essay on Carcinosin says about Carcinosin: :

"Also in the physical aspect you will remark that they are persons who are thumb-sucking, even in adults. They will be sucking their thumb, for example,..."

Herscu in Homeopathic TReatment of Children, says of Pulsatilla:
"Different forms of regression are manifestations of the acute fears that the Pulsatilla child feels at developmental milestones. There is a resistance to growth and the attainment of maturity: a Pulsatilla child will wet the bed after being "dry" for years. Another child will begin to suck a thumb again while rubbing the nose with a forefinger or a small piece of soft rag. Another may roll his fingers around in his hair while rocking. By far the most common syndrome is that the child exhibits basic babylike behavior. These children may begin to babble like babies, want to breast-feed or sleep in the parents' bed again, or whine and cry in the ways that used to work so well to get what they want-attention and affection. Perhaps it is due to this general regressive tendency that the remedy Pulsatilla has a reputation for stopping thumb sucking in children too old for this behavior. "

Of course the need to be sucking on something makes one think of Saccharinum, and indeed there are a couple of Saccharinum cases in EH of older children continuing to suck their thumbs.

Would one of the Barytas be applicable to the case?

There's also the rubric "Mind Childish gestures makes" with Anacardium in bold caps.

Perhaps these might give you some starting points....

Rosemary
n anyone find a rubric for thumb sucking. It is in a teenager so i suppose it is fairly unusual by this age.
s
Rochelle

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LOL as I actual gave this patient Carc 30!! She very fastidious. Thanks for
this. I did think of Sacc alb/Lac H or M - her issue is an abusive mother,
so she is now fairly happily living with her father and new wife but is
obviously very fond of her mother - she gets upset if anyone "slags my mum
off". She feels unwanted but she is not Puls. She actually came across a
quite Phosphoric.

Regards
Rochelle

Hi, Rochelle!
Precisely last night I looked that one up out of sheer curiosity.
Mind, gestures, fingers, sucking, I think it was. I think one of the most
prominent was Phytolacca, but I don't have Synthesis here with me so I'm not
sure. I'll look it up again tonight.
Caro.
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Looking at the remedies in those rubrics (Children put fingers in mouth, Mind gestures, children put fingers mouth) it strikes me that a part of what seemed important in Rochelle's original question was the fact that her client was no longer, strictly speaking, a child and that therefore the behavior in question was inappropriately childish or regressive. Maybe I misunderstood, but if not, I'm not sure that these rubrics, applying to children, really get at the other issue of childishness in adolescents and adults. I'm always fascinated at the ramifications of these apparently simple discussion questions -- great opportunities for learning more )) Rosemary

I see what you mean but the regressive aspect becomes much more
important when such childish behavior suddenly starts in a previously
normal individual. Here probably it has been continuing since child
hood and perhaps this is more of a habit. The need is to find out why
it is continuing, has there been some free periods, once again when
does it occur etc.What is preventing the teen from growing out of
it...Lots of times these habits get a life of their own and sometimes
specific behavior therapies might be indicated along with indicated
remedies...

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Rosemary C Hyde"
wrote:
mouth, Mind gestures, children put fingers mouth) it strikes me that
a part of what seemed important in Rochelle's original question was
the fact that her client was no longer, strictly speaking, a child
and that therefore the behavior in question was inappropriately
childish or regressive. Maybe I misunderstood, but if not, I'm not
sure that these rubrics, applying to children, really get at the
other issue of childishness in adolescents and adults. I'm always
fascinated at the ramifications of these apparently simple discussion
questions -- great opportunities for learning more )) Rosemary
the most
so I'm not
Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no
representations regarding the individual suitability of the
information contained in any document read or advice or
recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email
postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use
remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its
individual members be liable for any direct, consequential,
incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and
howsoever caused.
change your setting at http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus to
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With this girl it will be that she derives comfort from it as she feels
unwanted.

Rochelle

Dear Rosemary, to an extent I agree with you because there is rarely a
straight line between the 'need' and the expression of that need - in
Rochelle's case the young adult feels unwanted so she sucks her thumb.
But as far as ranking sx we place the 'feeling unwanted' at the top and
not the thumb sucking. I am not saying that we throw out the thumb
sucking sx but it should be sidelined to an extent.

This is a simple example but we all know how much more complicated it
can get. Lots of rx have the feeling of being unwanted and this is
expressed is many ways and gets processed through semiotics until you
get to delusional states that appear to be far removed the feeling
unwanted and yet it becomes tempting to give too high a ranking to
'rich' sx when really it comes down to something more simple.

If we go back to the thumb sucking we have to ask ourselves whether it
is correct to bring it into the equation at all. At the end of the case
taking when we are working within the case there might be other sx that
could be linked to the thumb sucking which is primarily childlike, and
if for example a remedy such as Pulsatilla is coming through then the
thumb sucking increases its ranking because Pulsatilla is such a remedy
that you would associate with growing up and going through puberty and
that entails.

So we really have to be prepared to 'move' sx around and shift their
importance as we work on cases and selecting the best sx for the case
is sometimes the hardest thing we have to do. Best wishes, Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
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Thanks, Joy.

Without seeing the patient, which Rochelle of course has had the advantage of doing, and without knowing her, it just struck me abstractly that continuing or resuming a childish behavior (thumb sucking) could possibly have been this person's response to the stress of feeling unwanted, which I agree absolutely is a crucial symptom.

Of course, different people respond differently to the same feeling, and the method of response is also a high ranking symptom in a case. I was simply saying that since the patient is no longer a child, perhaps the actual rubric or concept used in analyzing the case needed to be something other than "children sucking thumb" or fingers -- that the act of sucking the thumb when done by an older person might be construed as somewhat inappropriately childish behavior. That's why I searched EH for "thumbsucking... adult" and "thumbsucking ... adolescent" to see what clinical observations anyone might have made. It was interesting that the clearest reference from the search indicated the remedy Rochelle had decided to give based on the totality.

Rosemary

In a message dated 11/3/05 12:47:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
rosemarychyde@mindspring.com writes:

Without seeing the patient, which Rochelle of course has had the advantage
of doing, and without knowing her, it just struck me abstractly that
continuing or resuming a childish behavior (thumb sucking) could possibly have been
this person's response to the stress of feeling unwanted, which I agree
absolutely is a crucial symptom.
May I make the suggestion that adults who indulge in "childish" behaviors
such as thumb sucking or hair chewing, etc. are addicted to the endorphin
response that such behaviors elicit in adults. Rocking, foot tapping, and
repetitive behaviors (such as "runner's high") all release the very addictive
endorphins into the blood stream and make the patient feel better. Endorphins
reduce stress, calm the being, lower lactic acid levels in the muscle tissue,
lower respiration and heart rate, and allow smooth muscles to slide more
smoothly. The opiate receptors in the brain respond to endorphins. Just a
suggestion to look at.
Dr. Carol Bernat
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