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Minutus • Death of the Shed! ;-) ? stupid question
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Death of the Shed! ;-) ? stupid question

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:47 am
by Shannon Nelson
Hi Joy,
Well, following this out, just for fun...
Timber is "organic", and so is shoe leather, or a dead body. But just
like shoe leather or a dead body, it is no longer living, according to
common definition of the word, and evidently according to Hahnemann's
definition. (What was that quote Julian had appended--that cure
depends on the vital force, for a dead man needs no remedies, something
like that?) It's not growing, has no metabolism (tho it will be
metabolized *by* other organisms, even in addition to termites!). Sure
we can treat trees, plants, animals--but not after they are dead! At
least, not so far as I've ever heard.

Treat the person versus treat the disease--to my mind this is semantics
first and foremost... In this case *neither* has a "disease"--the
termites are just being termites, and the shed is just going the way of
all flesh, I mean wood, I mean what *would* you...
:-)

But in any case--where/what would the "symptom similarity" be?
Shannon

Re: Death of the Shed! ;-) ? stupid question

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:00 pm
by Joy Lucas
Actually Shannon, it isn't any fun when people don't open their minds
to difficult concepts and discuss intelligently and instead just make
retorts. At least with the PC rx discussion we did HAVE the intellect
AND the discussion. In fact I surprised Andy didn't make an offering to
this.

As the main analogy has been missed and questions gone unanswered it
does seem futile to reiterate. And it is a shame that Gaby's experience
has been forgotten in all this. I would like to thank Michelle for
bringing this 'not so stupid question' but apologies for using it as an
analogy to further the concept.

There is the idea of parasitic invasion as a symptom and many more if
you think about it - I already have. But if you consider the idea of
submission to a stronger force NOT something worth treating then?????

By the way, never heard of Carbo veg? But you seem to be saying there
is no afterlife - well that makes 'life' a lot easier although I would
imagine there might be a few million who would disagree. I have known
people to sprinkle homeopathic remedies over graves - not for the sake
of the living, but for those who have past away.

Off to have some other kind of fun. Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com

Re: Death of the Shed! ;-) ? stupid question

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:18 pm
by Simon King LCPH MARH
This really is intriguing and raises some interesting questions:

the first and most obvious is _ are we talking about those who are
temporarily dead that might yet be revived? Or the decidedly dead
for whom revival would be freaky?

And most importantly - can people in this life prescribe HOMEOPATHY
for those in the afterlife?

If SO:
-how do you get the Sx picture for the dead?
-How can you tell if it's worked, and if it doesn't, should we
consider that death is a maintaining cause?
Does anyone have the aphorism that relates to treating the dead?
Do they need to repeat the remedy?
Is there more than one totality for dead people?
Do homeopaths also need to be mediums? (should it be part of the
National Occupational Standards for Homeopaths?/
Do all all Rshoms prescribe for the dead and have training as mediums?

Did Hahnemann write another edition of the organon after he was dead
and is this the one we should be using to treat the dead?
Can you get it from Minerva?

If there is such a thing as life after death then logically this must
be it.... ( think about it)

Anyone remember the recent discussion insisting that HOMEOPATHY was
SCIENTIFIC?
Simon

Re: Death of the Shed! ;-) ? stupid question

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:35 pm
by Jean Doherty
Well I have laughed for the first time in some weeks.The spirits are
important. Why else would prayers be said for them, little alters made
and respected and food left. I had never conceived of leaving out
remedies , but why not ,to heal their souls and procure a better
reincarnation, Jean

Simon King wrote:

Re: Death of the Shed! ;-) ? stupid question

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:04 pm
by Simon King LCPH MARH
I really have no problem with peoples beliefs but is it HOMEOPATHY?
THAT is the question

Simon

Re: Death of the Shed! ;-) ? stupid question

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:55 pm
by Shannon Nelson
Oh come, SImon! There's nothing either scientific *or* unscientific
about discussing possibilities! Were the guys that came up with string
theory (or quark theory, or any of that) being scientific (because it's
now taken seriously) or unscientific (because the basic ideas are way
beyond weird?)? Exploration is definitely "scientific"! (Whether it's
"homeopathy" is another question, but beside the point too...)
:-)))
Shannon

Re: Death of the Shed! ;-) ? stupid question

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:09 pm
by Simon King LCPH MARH
You know what I meant
:-)
Simon

Re: Death of the Shed! ;-) ? stupid question

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:19 am
by Didi Ananda Ruchira
Simon-
Ahh yes, the whole debate will go on, I guess.

You'll just have to ask Hahnemann himself in your next seance, past-life regression, astral projection, mystic union, channelling, future life, heavenly sojourn, ghostly apparition, dousing or lama-style search for his present incarnation.

I'm really very entertained with this whole thread. I find it notable that this appears to be one of the longest running and most participated in thread in a long while. I wonder that that means?

perhaps MIND; Humour, agg, and desires

(desires: we want more of it / agg: the more we get the more we continue it)

with a smile;-)
Sincerely,
Didi Ananda Ruchira
Director, Abha Light
visit: www.abhalight.org
tel: +254 20 445-0181 / cells: 0733-895466 / 0723-869133

Re: Death of the Shed! ;-) ? stupid question

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:32 pm
by Simon King LCPH MARH
Hi Didi,

It is an interesting question,though, whether we should be
encouraging a solid and exclusive base to homeopathic teaching, or a
more inventive and experimental application to fall under its umbrella.

If the former then the teachings of Hahnemann have been ardently
upheld as the yardstick by which use of the term 'homeopathy' should
measured, if the latter then we must ask where will the line be
drawn, and if it can be drawn at all.

It has been frequently ( some might say relentlessly) been pointed
out on this list that to fall within the definition of the term
'homeopathy' certain criteria must be met - specifically the
teachings of Hahnemann, in fact to the word. When the methods
proposed fall outside those criteria should the term 'homeopathy'
therefore not be dropped to prevent confusion? If not then how far
can homeopathy be stretched before it ceases to be homeopathy, and
importantly, who will decide this?

E.g. (this already discussed) can it be considered homeopathy to
give a remedy to termites to prevent them causing symptoms? Leaving
aside the question of whether the invaded shed has a vital force or
not, homeopathy might normally expect the remedy to be given to the
Shed being invaded, or to the person concerned about the shed. I.e.
the ones exhibiting the symptoms - rather than to the cause of the
symptoms, as suggested here. Removing the cause, by whatever means,
makes good sense, but are the methods used homeopathy? i.e Why can
it be called homeopathy when we give a potentised substance to the
invading agent itself, to repel it ( by whatever mechanism) but not
when we give a physical dose of something that would repel it. This
would potentially mean that dilution = homeopathy, which is not as
far as I know generally considered to be the case.

I am however interested in speculating how such a thing could indeed
be homeopathic, these and similar questions are intriguing , but
until we understand the principle by which they operate how can we
call it homeopathy, if ( as has previously been emphatically stated)
Homeopathy is defined specifically by symptom similarity; as this
principle has not been exhibited in the scenario above?

Why is this a problem? It is only a problem if we are to believe the
emphasis that has been placed on the use of the terms 'homeopathy',
'homeopathic'. These terms have been rigidly defined by reference to
Hahnemanns writings. Anything that has fallen outside his writings
has been condemned. e.g combination or complex remedies, prescribing
on disease name, - there have been heated discussions whether
prophylaxis can be considered homeopathy, etc..

Yet those very authors that objected to any deviation from the letter
of Hahnemanns teaching now happily lend credence to the application
of diluted sbstances being used in a manner that does not adhere to
any teachings of Hahnemann, as being homeopathic. This is the
problem, in that it must sow the very seeds of confusion that these
protagonists were erstwhile trying to purge.

I am not concerned whether the understanding of the term homeopathy
is stretched or not, I am happy to to expand the understanding and
teaching of homeopathy, what does concern me though is that those
that have repeatedly and vehemently defined the boundaries, should
transgress them with the flimsiest of justification. If we abandon
the most fundamental principle of homeopathy, (prescribing on symptom
similarity), then are we to also abandon others, e.g. the single dose?

Throwing out part of Homeopathic philosophy whilst retaining other
parts is confusing and inconsistent, and doesn't give a very good
impression for the student, for the public, for for scientists or the
media.

In the same way defining homeopathy as scientific then proposing
that other methods of application which have yet to be proved as
being either scientific or homeopathic (as defined) should also be
called homeopathy, is inconsistent. It may be that the scientific
principle will be determined in due course, and it may or may not be
homeopathic, but until then it is not accurate to call it homeopathy
- if the definitions previously placed by those same posters are to
mean anything. This is not to say that explorations must not be made
but that the terminology used (which had previously been defended)
remain consistent.

What I found so amusing was the depth of disparity between the stated
positions - it only requires a modicum of extrapolation to see the
quixotic possibilities!
:-)

Simon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Death of the Shed! ;-) ? stupid question

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:03 pm
by Simon King LCPH MARH
Hi Didi,

It is an interesting question,though, whether we should be
encouraging a solid and exclusive base to homeopathic teaching, or a
more inventive and experimental application to fall under its umbrella.

If the former then the teachings of Hahnemann have been ardently
upheld as the yardstick by which use of the term 'homeopathy' should
measured, if the latter then we must ask where will the line be
drawn, and if it can be drawn at all.

It has been frequently ( some might say relentlessly) been pointed
out on this list that to fall within the definition of the term
'homeopathy' certain criteria must be met - specifically the
teachings of Hahnemann, in fact to the word. When the methods
proposed fall outside those criteria should the term 'homeopathy'
therefore not be dropped to prevent confusion? If not then how far
can homeopathy be stretched before it ceases to be homeopathy, and
importantly, who will decide this?

E.g. (this already discussed) can it be considered homeopathy to
give a remedy to termites to prevent them causing symptoms? Leaving
aside the question of whether the invaded shed has a vital force or
not, homeopathy might normally expect the remedy to be given to the
Shed being invaded, or to the person concerned about the shed. I.e.
the ones exhibiting the symptoms - rather than to the cause of the
symptoms, as suggested here. Removing the cause, by whatever means,
makes good sense, but are the methods used homeopathy? i.e Why can
it be called homeopathy when we give a potentised substance to the
invading agent itself, to repel it ( by whatever mechanism) but not
when we give a physical dose of something that would repel it. This
would potentially mean that dilution = homeopathy, which is not as
far as I know generally considered to be the case.

I am however interested in speculating how such a thing could indeed
be homeopathic, these and similar questions are intriguing , but
until we understand the principle by which they operate how can we
call it homeopathy, if ( as has previously been emphatically stated)
Homeopathy is defined specifically by symptom similarity; as this
principle has not been exhibited in the scenario above?

Why is this a problem? It is only a problem if we are to take to
believe the emphasis that has been placed on the use of the terms
'homeopathy', 'homeopathic'. These terms have been rigidly defined by
reference to Hahnemanns writings. Anything that has fallen outside
his writings has been condemned. e.g combination or complex remedies,
prescribing on disease name, - there have been heated discussions
whether prophylaxis can be considered homeopathy, etc..

Yet those very authors that objected to any deviation from the letter
of Hahnemanns teaching now happily lend credence to the application
of diluted sbstances being used in a manner that does not adhere to
any teachings of Hahnemann, as being homeopathic. This is the
problem, in that it must sow the very seeds of confusion that these
protagonists were erstwhile trying to purge.

I am not concerned whether the understanding of the term homeopathy
is stretched or not, I am happy to to expand the understanding and
teaching of homeopathy, what does concern me though is that those
that have repeatedly and vehemently defined the boundaries, should
transgress them with the flimsiest of justification. If we abandon
the most fundamental principle of homeopathy, (prescribing on symptom
similarity), then are we to also abandon others, e.g. the single dose?

Throwing out part of Homeopathic philosophy whilst retaining other
parts is confusing and inconsistent, and doesn't give a very good
impression for the student, for the public, for for scientists or the
media.

In the same way defining homeopathy as scientific then proposing
that other methods of application which have yet to be proved as
being either scientific or homeopathic (as defined) should also be
called homeopathy, is inconsistent. It may be that the scientific
principle will be determined in due course, and it may or may not be
homeopathic, but until then it is not accurate to call it homeopathy
- if the definitions previously placed by those same posters are to
mean anything. This is not to say that explorations must not be made
but that the terminology used (which had previously been defended)
remain consistent.

What I found so amusing was the depth of disparity between the stated
positions - it only requires a modicum of extrapolation to see the
quixotic possibilities!
:-)

Simon