Minutus

Anyone have any more on this whole issue? (all really significant in this
day in age of blaming viruses and bacteria for everything and then
inventing vaccines based on those theories)
A Faulty Medical Model: The Germ Theory
http://www.unhinderedliving.com/germtheory.html
http://www.vaccinationdebate.com/articles.html

Many interesting articles by Ian Sinclair

http://www.sumeria.net/dream.html

THE DREAM AND LIE OF LOUIS PASTEUR
by R. B. Pearson

""Actually bacteria are our symbiotic partners in both health and disease.
They serve a useful role. As scavengers they make harmless or remove
undesirable substances within our bodies. They also elaborate certain of
our body needs. That is, they help build complex organic compounds from
simple ingredients. "

:".Do mosquitoes make the water stagnant; or does stagnant water attract
the mosquitoes? We should all we taught that germs are friends and
scavengers attracted by disease, rather {than} enemies causing disease...As
their internal environment is, so will be the attraction for any specific
micro-organism...The germ theory and vaccination are kept going by
commercialism.""
http://www.healself.org/contagion2.html

CONTAGIOUS DISEASES

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Classical Homeopath
Well Within & Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours (worldwide)
Vaccination Information & Choice Network
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm
homeopathycures@tesco.net
ONLINE Introduction to Homeopathy Classes
ONLINE Introduction to Vaccine Dangers Classes
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I have a hard time with the idea that viruses and bacteria have
*nothing* to do with illness. After all, even "the bubble boy" who had
no immune system and would have been killed by a common cold, was kept
alive (how many years or decades?) inside a sterile bubble. Part of
the role of our immune system *is* to keep viruses and etc. in check.

A healthy immune system is up to the job--usually.
A weak immune system can be clobbered by e.g. bacteria that would
usually either be easily fended off, or even live harmlessly within the
body.
A strong immune system encountering a pathogen for which it is
unprepared, may be felled by it--plenty of historical examples.

If bacteria etc. are our friends, then why have we evolved immune
systems that (usually) deal with them so specifically, and so
efficiently?
Shannon

I see it this way....

Many years ago, when I had a gun, I was playing around with the live bullets
No matter how much I manipulated them or threw them, they never hurt me;
playing with friends, we were throwing the bullets at each other, and as
long as we did not aim for the eyes, nothing ever could happen and nothing
did happen.
I we were to throw the bullets by firing a gun, you can imagine what would
happen.
Same bullet, different energy, different way of propagation, different
virulence, same body able to sustain a low impact but not a high velocity
impact.

So we can live peacefully with bacteria, viruses, fungi, even parasites as
long as our terrain = the whole us, is healthy.
But if for whatever reason our health falters, even a benign germ will use
this opportunity to thrive; or the other way around, any germ can change and
become "too strong" for us to control its actions. A question of balance.

The healthier we are, the less we have to fear. But sometimes the "other
side" becomes stronger and we need external help. If I can use another image
I am very good at martial art and could stop most attackers. But I would
not dream to try and stop a car aiming at me.....
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".

Shannon, I think you're on to the essence here. We do have all these billions of micro-organisms of all kinds within us. It's sort of like peace vs. war. When they're balanced with each other and no one kind gets to run amok, we feel fine. When one type overcomes the others and our immune system, we feel ill. We can feel ill from all kinds of other imbalances, too, of course.

I agree with you that, despite the conflicting evidence, "contagious" illnesses generally do implicate some micro-organism or other. The big variable is, as Hahnemann so wisely saw, individual susceptibility. As far as I can tell, vaccination doesn't necessarily decrease our susceptibility, and seems as though it might increase it, at least in some cases where it's already there to some extent. Nothing is "black and white" or clear and simple. Oh, well.... Rosemary

But my question is this
How do you know a specific virus 'causes' something - does a virus exist?
How do we know? Does it cause something? How do we know? How can we say
for sure that something that is named a virus causes anything. Or is it
just there? Or is it there at all? Can we see the virus? Can you prove
the virus caused the illness?

How do we know a bacteria 'causes' something?

I agree that the VF and immune system certainly are the keys, but to focus
on bacteria and so-called viruses, which we are clueless about and I'm not
even sure we have been told the truth about either, is ridiculous.
Sheri

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Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Classical Homeopath
Well Within & Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours (worldwide)
Vaccination Information & Choice Network
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm
homeopathycures@tesco.net
ONLINE Introduction to Homeopathy Classes
ONLINE Introduction to Vaccine Dangers Classes
Voicemail US 530-740-0561 UK phone from US 011-44-1874-624-936

Big question and where then do these questions end, we have to question
absolutely everything because we cannot prove anything - all becomes a
bit metaphysical and vague. How do you know for sure that the VF and
immune system are the keys.

Perhaps do a course in virology or microbiology. We can see viruses
they have amazing shapes some of them. Spend some time in a research
lab? Some people are not clueless at all about these things. Why
shouldn't we focus on bacteria and viruses? We as homeopaths, might be
able to bring some fascinating contribution to the table if we do focus
on them. We need to be curious at all times. Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes we can see viruses, with electron microscopes. I have a book full
of pictures of viruses--very pretty things too, some of them! And
electronmicrographs are pretty cool, IMO. (Basically photography that
uses electron beam instead of light beam--they can take some *amazing*
pictures with it!)

Below:
On this stuff of "causation" by viruses and bacteria, you know the same
things I do--they e.g. innoculate some poor innocent lab animal, and
produce the disease. Then they culture the blood or tissues, and get
back a veritable flood of these organisms, in amounts that were not
previously present. Certain organisms are *known* to be common
inhabitants of certain environments and tissues--e.g. the gut, the
throat, whatever--and are known to be normally benign; others are known
to be *not* normally present, and if they *are* present even in small
numbers, that is taken to be significant.

When you have an animal that contains none of Organism X in its blood
and is healthy, then you inject (or feed, or swab) "some" of Organism
X, animal becomes ill with the predicted symptoms, you re-culture the
tissue and find it *teeming* with Organism X, then it seems difficult
not to use the term "caused"...

Antibiotic therapy works as well as it does, by (evidently) killing off
the troublesome organisms. Strengthening the immune system to do that
killing of *itself* is certainly better.

But for e.g.... A few years ago I developed pneumonia, and my usual
tools did not work. (And far too sick to care for myself properly
anyway.) I swallowed my pride and some pills, and got swiftly better.

Last year my cat attacked my hand and it blew up like a balloon
overnight. Again all my usual tools failed to work, at least to the
extent that I was able to try--remedies, colloidal silver, megadoses of
vitamin C, garlic, various herbs--nada. Again I swallowed my pride and
let the ER docs do their thing. I don't think they cured any miasms or
reduced my susceptibility (quite the reverse, I assume!), but they did
indeed kill off the "germs" before said "germs" could kill off me
(which I gather was not beyond the realm of possibility).

Shall we say that was "placebo effect", or ??

I agree it's ridiculous--and tragic, and harmful--to give this
*priority* over immune enhancement. But I feel it's also a mistake to
overlook the over sides...
Best wishes,
Shannon