Minutus

I have a case - a 5-year-old girl - who has in general been responding very well to Bar-C. However, she has a wandering eye, which so far has not improved with the Bar-C. She has recently got ringworm (small patch on her chest, probably caught from stray cats), and when I looked up both symptoms found Nat-M strongly represented. The Bar-C is present in the ringworm as well, just not at all in the eye symptom. The Bar-C also suits the totality of the case much more, so in the meantime the plan is to continue with Bar-C, repeating more and moving up gradually in potency.
I'd like to know though - has anyone seen treatment of wandering eye succeed so that the patient would not need surgery? Does anyone know of exercises that can be done with the child for this purpose to support the homeopathic treatment? Is the Bates method relevant here?
In addition - is there any connection between Bar-C and Nat-M? I'm wondering whether Nat-M may be the next remedy, but the Bar-C is so prominent at this stage in everything apart from the eye problem that I don't want to move off it unless something else is as clearly indicated.
Thanks as always for your input,
Vera

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Vera,
Eye exercises are ver helpful to train the muscles of "wandering
eyes". I"m not sure which is the method, but most Ophthalmologists or
Occulists should be able to reccomend which ones.
This usually improves as the child grows older.

NatMur could quite probably be the next. With teh teo symtpoms you
mentioned I have NAt Mur and Graphites. I'd look for generals to
confirm when its indicated.

Beinninghausan's concordances say:
B; Baryta carbonica, Carbonate of Baryta, Ba CO3, with which are
included symptoms of Baryta acetica; Boenninghausen Concordances;
Related remedies: Acon., arn., ars., Bell., bry., Calc., carb-v.,
caust., cham., chin., cocc., con., cycl., ferr., graph., hep., ign.,
kali-c., led., Lyc., Merc., nat-c., nat-m., nit-ac., Nux-v., petr.,
ph-ac., Phos., plat., Puls., Rhus-t., ruta, sabad., Sep., Sil., spig.,
spong., staph., Sulph., verat., viol-t.
Hope this helps,
dr. leela
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, VR VR wrote:
responding very well to Bar-C. However, she has a wandering eye,
which so far has not improved with the Bar-C. She has recently got
ringworm (small patch on her chest, probably caught from stray cats),
and when I looked up both symptoms found Nat-M strongly represented.
The Bar-C is present in the ringworm as well, just not at all in the
eye symptom. The Bar-C also suits the totality of the case much more,
so in the meantime the plan is to continue with Bar-C, repeating more
and moving up gradually in potency.
succeed so that the patient would not need surgery? Does anyone know
of exercises that can be done with the child for this purpose to
support the homeopathic treatment? Is the Bates method relevant here?
wondering whether Nat-M may be the next remedy, but the Bar-C is so
prominent at this stage in everything apart from the eye problem that
I don't want to move off it unless something else is as clearly indicated.

Dear Vera, there is quite a bit going on here. If she has been doing so
well on Bar carb how does the ringworm fit into that? Is it an old
susceptibility returning that the rx has allowed to happen? Or a new
sx? Before using other rx I would think that has to be given a context.
Patience is needed sometimes but an intercurrent could be used at some
point to help the eye problem if towards the end of treatment it is
still the remaining sx. I have only ever used Ruta in this way and
Cyclamen in an epilepsy case.

You would probably be wanting to use the strabismus rubrics - which eye
is it, does it converge or diverge? And is there any obvious cause for
the wandering eye.

I am sure there are many eye exercises that could be practiced.

There is quite a leap between Bar carb and Nat mur in terms of rx
relationship but you would prescribe on the totality but while she is
doing so well on Bar carb I wouldn't be tempted to move to another rx.
Best wishes, Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Joy,
I think the ringworm came in because the family have recently started feeding stray cats and the children have been picking them up and hugging them. I think it may well be an old susceptibility, but it is a large family and the ringworm seems to be moving from child to child.
In terms of the strabismus, the left eye is problematic and diverges, worse in bright light. The Nat-m does seem like a jump from the Bar-C and doesn't seem to match totality. Graphites is also present, and I'm wondering if that might be less of a jump.
Thanks,
Vera

Joy Lucas wrote:
Dear Vera, there is quite a bit going on here. If she has been doing so
well on Bar carb how does the ringworm fit into that? Is it an old
susceptibility returning that the rx has allowed to happen? Or a new
sx? Before using other rx I would think that has to be given a context.
Patience is needed sometimes but an intercurrent could be used at some
point to help the eye problem if towards the end of treatment it is
still the remaining sx. I have only ever used Ruta in this way and
Cyclamen in an epilepsy case.

You would probably be wanting to use the strabismus rubrics - which eye
is it, does it converge or diverge? And is there any obvious cause for
the wandering eye.

I am sure there are many eye exercises that could be practiced.

There is quite a leap between Bar carb and Nat mur in terms of rx
relationship but you would prescribe on the totality but while she is
doing so well on Bar carb I wouldn't be tempted to move to another rx.
Best wishes, Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ATTENTION PLEASE:

The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.

****
ATTENTION PLEASE!!

If you do not wish to receive individual emails, you can simply change your setting at http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus to receive a single daily digest.
SPONSORED LINKS
Alternative therapies in health and medicine Complementary and alternative medicine Complementary alternative medicine Alternative medicine magazine National center for complementary and alternative medicine

---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "minutus" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
minutus-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Leelah,
Thanks for your response. I saw the Graph there as well, and it might also be a possible follow-on. One thing I noticed - she's quite tall and sturdy for her age, and seems to have hands that are fairly large for her arms.
So far, the occulists and eye doctors have all spoken about operating - the mother isn't keen on that and wants to avoid it if at all possible.
Thanks,
Vera

doctorleelah2h wrote:
Hi Vera,
Eye exercises are ver helpful to train the muscles of "wandering
eyes". I"m not sure which is the method, but most Ophthalmologists or
Occulists should be able to reccomend which ones.
This usually improves as the child grows older.

NatMur could quite probably be the next. With teh teo symtpoms you
mentioned I have NAt Mur and Graphites. I'd look for generals to
confirm when its indicated.

Beinninghausan's concordances say:
B; Baryta carbonica, Carbonate of Baryta, Ba CO3, with which are
included symptoms of Baryta acetica; Boenninghausen Concordances;
Related remedies: Acon., arn., ars., Bell., bry., Calc., carb-v.,
caust., cham., chin., cocc., con., cycl., ferr., graph., hep., ign.,
kali-c., led., Lyc., Merc., nat-c., nat-m., nit-ac., Nux-v., petr.,
ph-ac., Phos., plat., Puls., Rhus-t., ruta, sabad., Sep., Sil., spig.,
spong., staph., Sulph., verat., viol-t.
Hope this helps,
dr. leela
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, VR VR wrote:
responding very well to Bar-C. However, she has a wandering eye,
which so far has not improved with the Bar-C. (snip)
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Vera-
The one dictum to follow is - "when in doubt - do not". When the
remedy is showing good reaction and you are convinced about the
suitability - do not interfere. "Wandering eye" being such a
physical symptom (which most of the remedies would not have produced
in proving - and mostly would only be a cured symptom) the selected
remedy may or may not have been used in this condition previously.
If Bar-c covers the generals and other symptoms by principle it
would cure the eye problem as well. So wait and see- if you look at
it - this is not just an altered sensation - so it might take time
to right. The remedy need not cover ALL physical symptoms to be
indicated. As Joy stated it is a big leap from Bar-c to Nat-m and
you might want to wait and see. The change is done when only the
symptoms appearing are totally new and distressful. This looks more
like needing an increase in potency than anything else at least from
what you have said. What are the symptoms that indicate Bar-c vs
Nat.m?

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, VR VR wrote:
responding very well to Bar-C. However, she has a wandering eye,
which so far has not improved with the Bar-C. She has recently got
ringworm (small patch on her chest, probably caught from stray
cats), and when I looked up both symptoms found Nat-M strongly
represented. The Bar-C is present in the ringworm as well, just not
at all in the eye symptom. The Bar-C also suits the totality of the
case much more, so in the meantime the plan is to continue with Bar-
C, repeating more and moving up gradually in potency.
eye succeed so that the patient would not need surgery? Does anyone
know of exercises that can be done with the child for this purpose
to support the homeopathic treatment? Is the Bates method relevant
here?
I'm wondering whether Nat-M may be the next remedy, but the Bar-C is
so prominent at this stage in everything apart from the eye problem
that I don't want to move off it unless something else is as clearly
indicated.

H2002 (really like that name!)
This px originally presented with runny nose (yellow-ish greenish) and sleep apnea. She was very shy of strangers, and was having problems in kindergarten - not communicating well, deliberately defiant behaviour (soiling herself while in full control), and other behaviours suited to a much younger child. She was presenting in kindergarten as being below average intelligence, whereas at home she was showing above average, knew all her letters by the age of 2 or 3 etc. At home she would do things secretively, such as emptying out detergent bottles behind her mother's back.
Rsp physical symptoms were difficult to get, since she is one of a large family and many symptoms were connected in some way or another to siblings (sorry can't be more specific). But she seemed to present these two extremes of Bar-C in one patient - one is the outward presentation of some form of retardation, and the other is in accordance with the rubric "mind, intellectual" where Bar-c is amongst the leaders. It's been very interesting in the course of this case to see the physical symptoms easing up alongside significant behavioural improvements, but I also feel that it will be worth while moving Bar-C through different potencies rather than change the remedy at this point. I started fairly low with her, at 12C, so there's a lot of room to move. She also aggravated slightly with the first dose (I give water doses), so she's received subsequent doses in double dilution.
Really the only pointer to Nat-M (and Graph) is the combination of ringworm and strabismus - but I'll wait till more of the picture changes before changing rx.
Vera

hahnemannian2002 wrote:
Vera-
The one dictum to follow is - "when in doubt - do not". When the
remedy is showing good reaction and you are convinced about the
suitability - do not interfere. "Wandering eye" being such a
physical symptom (which most of the remedies would not have produced
in proving - and mostly would only be a cured symptom) the selected
remedy may or may not have been used in this condition previously.
If Bar-c covers the generals and other symptoms by principle it
would cure the eye problem as well. So wait and see- if you look at
it - this is not just an altered sensation - so it might take time
to right. The remedy need not cover ALL physical symptoms to be
indicated. As Joy stated it is a big leap from Bar-c to Nat-m and
you might want to wait and see. The change is done when only the
symptoms appearing are totally new and distressful. This looks more
like needing an increase in potency than anything else at least from
what you have said. What are the symptoms that indicate Bar-c vs
Nat.m?

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Vera, forgive me for putting the cat amongst the pigeons and I am
not questioning the progress of the case but certain aspects of what
you write about this case I just have never seen in Baryta carb and I
find it interesting - such as the 'soiling herself while in full
control' and the strange holding back at school and yet flourishing at
home (although this can be caused by all sorts of environmental and
emotional problems) and also the 'secret behaviour'.

If you want to add rx to study (along side Nat mur and Graphites) I
would suggest you have a look at Agaricus.

The Agaricus child, because they are fearless, will test their
surroundings and carers with acts such as soiling themselves while in
full control. Likewise, in full control they will refuse to perform any
kind of mental work but they are also driven by a strange curiousity
and do silly things, just to see what happens, such as emptying
detergent bottles, they can be really cheeky and naughty in adult terms
but they are just being strangely curious. The MM's say "cannot do his
routine work or does the opposite" - a self willed state - learning can
be slow but they also can be very intelligent people. Because of all
this 'brain' activity they can appear quite timid but it is actually a
form of indifference. Strabismus figures strongly as does circumscribed
skin eruptions and the sleep apnea comes in the form of oppressed
breathing and being a spasmodic rx this creates a problem whilst trying
to sleep - profound sleep with lowered reflexes. FWIW and just offering
this as a point of interest, best wishes, Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Joy,
I took the "soiling" under "mind, defiant", as the way the mother described it to me it was very much in that direction. Also the secretive actions related to "mind, secretive" where bar-c also comes in high. And anyway, cats belong among pigeons, otherwise there's no action...
Agaricus is a remedy that I really don't understand, probably because I haven't yet worked with a patient where it's been prescribed and taken. In my clinical year, Agaricus was prescribed for a patient who had shooting pains from wrist to elbow - he was a picture framer and it really disturbed his work. When I took the case he seemed to be more Lycopodium, but my supervisor opted for Agaricus because of the nature of the pain. In the end, it was moot as for some reason the patient never took the remedy. I have heard Agaricus described as overwhelmed by a heavy duty father figure (mushroom looming over the px!), and in many other divergent ways. I understood fearless except for the "down" phase of the remedy where there are more fears - any info on this remedy is appreciated.
In this particular case the child isn't at all fearless, with strangers she seems to be both fearful and desiring to deceive. With those she knows the defiance comes in more, but still together with the deception. What's most interesting for me is the high intelligence kept under wraps. I usually keep a fairly detailed analysis and copy of repertorization with each case, for some reason with this case I don't have it so I'm giving more of an approximation of how I reached the remedy. I'll definitely look at Agaricus within the continuation. I also understood that Agaricus is very very chilly - is that an essential characteristic of the remedy?
Regards,
Vera

Joy Lucas wrote:
Dear Vera, forgive me for putting the cat amongst the pigeons and I am
not questioning the progress of the case but certain aspects of what
you write about this case I just have never seen in Baryta carb and I
find it interesting - such as the 'soiling herself while in full
control' and the strange holding back at school and yet flourishing at
home (although this can be caused by all sorts of environmental and
emotional problems) and also the 'secret behaviour'.

If you want to add rx to study (along side Nat mur and Graphites) I
would suggest you have a look at Agaricus.

The Agaricus child, because they are fearless, will test their
surroundings and carers with acts such as soiling themselves while in
full control. Likewise, in full control they will refuse to perform any
kind of mental work but they are also driven by a strange curiousity
and do silly things, just to see what happens, such as emptying
detergent bottles, they can be really cheeky and naughty in adult terms
but they are just being strangely curious. The MM's say "cannot do his
routine work or does the opposite" - a self willed state - learning can
be slow but they also can be very intelligent people. Because of all
this 'brain' activity they can appear quite timid but it is actually a
form of indifference. Strabismus figures strongly as does circumscribed
skin eruptions and the sleep apnea comes in the form of oppressed
breathing and being a spasmodic rx this creates a problem whilst trying
to sleep - profound sleep with lowered reflexes. FWIW and just offering
this as a point of interest, best wishes, Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Vera, to try and answer your points...

I personally find it hard to understand how Bar carb is in the
'defiant' rubric because they are so timid and dependent. Even when
they think they are being laughed at or put down they tend to retreat
and hide rather than stand defiant.

Can you say where the agaricus 'overwhelmed by some heavy duty father
figure' comes from. It does have delusions about being diminished and
also delusion about having to confess their sins at the gate of hell
and contrary to that there is also delusion he is a great person. I see
this more as the oscillating features you find in Agaricus - a mixture
of self willed defiance and indifference. The self willed state is one
of defiance and usually defiance takes some degree of fearlessness.
They really do crazy things and because they 'have' to do them they
will do them without your knowledge, hence the secretive behaviour.

The deception issue is also interesting. In Baryta carb I would read
this again as a 'hiding' - they really do hide behind their hands and
peek a look at you but not out of deception but because they are
scared. They adopt this stance out of safety because they have been put
down so much, it is a protection.

I could sort of imagine how they might (when they feel they can) try to
be defiant as a way of taking the opportunity when they feel strong but
they go over the top but not in a deceptive way, say like the spider
rx. Can you say more about how you see the deception?

Agaricus is quite a mixture of temperature modalities. Being one of the
top rx for chilblains you can see how they might be chilly but burning
at the same time - so you might see both a poor circulation that allows
for chilblains to develop but then I have known Agaricus to be so
burning hot they arrive on a really cold day with few clothes on. So
quite a mixture re temperatures.

Hope useful, best wishes, Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]