Minutus

Dear Ellen,

You are absolutely right.
The problem with The "images of central disturbance" is that it may
end up as all theoretical talk that cannot be substantiated. The
clincial result may be palliation or suppression, while we fool
ourselves into thinking that we're curing some vague "central
disturbance'.

BUT the problem with this is even more complex - and again as you
rightly pointed out, it depends so much on the perceptive depth of the
homeopath.

The first thing every homeoapth has to learn are the basic ways of
doing good homeopathy with a good history of physicals or mental
modliaites and concomittants without needing the imagery that can be
so easily distorted and misinterpreted by someone not well trained in
these techniques. Also, these techniques need to bear the test of time
- as in provding true clincial healing of diseases to prove that they
really hold out. I remember a very common question we have "Why Should
someone develop CANCER after constitutional treatment?" YEs, why
should they, IF we are truly healing with teh so called
"constitutional" and correcting "central distrubances"?
ITs a serious question we all a "constitutional" homeopaths have to
face squarely in teh face, because it indicates that the treatment
which was apparently consitutional was not curative but suppressive or
palliatory depending on the miasmatic history of the patient.

The only way out of this dilemma is that each homeopath be well
gounded in the principles as well as have clear physical indications
of the direction they are following. The traditional methods are not
"inferior methods" of treatment. They are building blocks that each
one of us can build our foundations on. Without them we'd be floating
in imagery and wrong prescriptions.

YEs we'd be delighted to have your analysis/imagery of Tarentula -
would you be able to send it in please? YEs we'll print it in the
Materia Medica section. Maybe you can read PAlladium, Cuprum amd Merc
- that I wrote - when you have the time.
thank a lot!
D.r leela
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Ellen Madono" wrote:
I have also been getting much help from Mangialavori to develop this
trajectory
of central disturbance into our images of the remedies. The other day
I did an
analysis of tarantula where I looked at the physiology and behavior of the
animal. I was amazed to see how much the "signature" is related to the
proving
symptoms. They even suggest symptoms that are not in the proving. These
thoughts were based on Mangialavori's work. If the image of the central
disturbance does not go all the way into our understanding of
remedies, it is
all a lot of theoretical talk. I wonder if I could possibly edit down
the length
of this paper and send it to you to possibly be put in your zine?

Blessings,
Ellen Madono

Dear Dr. Leela,

I was not thinking in the deep sense that you are pointing out. I know that Dr. Vijaykar even described his own terrible cases of suppression that harmed the patient. What a brave and honest man. I have a very hard time being sure that the symptoms are following Herrings law. If all is going well, I feel like the sx are falling away nilly willy and they don't come back. Sometimes the patient tells me months later that some sx that they forgot to tell me about disappeared months ago. So it is hard to keep track. I need to be asking myself:
1.) Does the sx follow one of Herrings law or more important is it obviously going in the other direction? Thus is there a danger or suppression.
2.) As Andy was saying, does it belong to the remedy?
3.) Which miasm does it belong to?
That's such a head full of information. I think I am going to have to start charting on paper so that I systematically ask these question. Are there any more? Only the first one will tell me about possible suppressions. I was thinking that when a remedy only covers a narrow aspect of the patient (say they are nagging you to do something about xx sx and you unwisely just try to satisfy them). That is the really dangerous case. I usually dodge that one by saying I am only a student with limited abilities. Still that possibility is always there with acutes. I have had 2 cases recently where I used the acute remedy for several months because it seemed to be curing the whole case. It started as an acute and I let the patient keep using it because they said they felt better with it. Maybe that was unwise. It did cover a lot of the case.

I am doubting my impression that anything and everything can and should be cured with homeopathy. I can't work much in Japan because well I should be studying and also I don't know many people. But when I am with people who I can see I could easily work with and could probably cure, I am learning to keep my mouth shut. I am also realizing that there are many ways to approach healing. Many of those ways are not obviously homeopathic. Only homeopathic in these sense of being with and staying with the suffering of another person is homeopathic on a spiritual level.

Blessings,
Ellen

Dear Dr. Leela,
I can't find the MM on your site. Could you give me the address? I want to read your articles.
Blessings,
Ellen Madono

Dear Ellen,
There are often times I can see that homeoapthy may not be the best
for a case, and so tell them to try something esle. The reasons are
various.
But personally I have not ventrued very much into various other
therapies except a few (as in supplements and a few herbal supportive
remedies) in individual cases that could do with some additional help.

I think this is because I realised there was so much about homeoapthy
that I had not mastered as yet. When I see wonderful prescribers all
around me ( in Mumbai) doing great healing with homeopathy - actually
really handling cases that are on a comparable level and alternative
to modern medicine, my interest has been to reach a level of
homeoapthic therapeutics and management that can be alternative to
modern medicine even in emmergencies like ishaemic heart disease or
renal failure, etc.

But whatever the ultimate interest, the basics need to be drummed into
every homeopath before they venture into a "method" of homeopathy that
can be hardly recognizable to the original. IT gives each one a sense
of how far they are wiling to move away and how effective they are
being with it.

3 good questions you have asked yourself - yes. The simple answer is
to clearly adn carefully chart out the patients history
chronologically right at the outset. Then again at the sage of
analysing remedy responses, one has to again chart out the reversal of
symtpoms (with a log kept by the pateint) and compare it with the
original chart of symptom development.
Symptom development is alwyas a miasmatic progression of disease
-which is also opposite to HErings LAw of cure. Once one has that
mentally straightened out, the confusion gets much less!

Did I clearly explain this in my article?
thanks for your feedback.
Leela

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Ellen Madono" wrote:
know that Dr. Vijaykar even described his own terrible cases of
suppression that harmed the patient. What a brave and honest man. I
have a very hard time being sure that the symptoms are following
Herrings law. If all is going well, I feel like the sx are falling
away nilly willy and they don't come back. Sometimes the patient
tells me months later that some sx that they forgot to tell me about
disappeared months ago. So it is hard to keep track. I need to be
asking myself:
obviously going in the other direction? Thus is there a danger or
suppression.
to start charting on paper so that I systematically ask these
question. Are there any more? Only the first one will tell me about
possible suppressions. I was thinking that when a remedy only covers
a narrow aspect of the patient (say they are nagging you to do
something about xx sx and you unwisely just try to satisfy them).
That is the really dangerous case. I usually dodge that one by saying
I am only a student with limited abilities. Still that possibility is
always there with acutes. I have had 2 cases recently where I used
the acute remedy for several months because it seemed to be curing the
whole case. It started as an acute and I let the patient keep using
it because they said they felt better with it. Maybe that was unwise.
It did cover a lot of the case.
should be cured with homeopathy. I can't work much in Japan because
well I should be studying and also I don't know many people. But when
I am with people who I can see I could easily work with and could
probably cure, I am learning to keep my mouth shut. I am also
realizing that there are many ways to approach healing. Many of those
ways are not obviously homeopathic. Only homeopathic in these sense
of being with and staying with the suffering of another person is
homeopathic on a spiritual level.
behavior of the
These
central
Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no
representations regarding the individual suitability of the
information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation
offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any
purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the
recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual
members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special,
punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.
change your setting at http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus to
receive a single daily digest.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Service.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Ellen,
I still have to get them on our own site.
The articles were written for the ezine and are found on the
hapthy.com site in the MAteria MEdica section.
HEre is the link:
http://www.hpathy.com/materiamedica/index.asp
Thanks!
Leela
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Ellen Madono" wrote:
want to read your articles.
behavior of the
These
central
Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no
representations regarding the individual suitability of the
information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation
offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any
purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the
recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual
members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special,
punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.
change your setting at http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus to
receive a single daily digest.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Service.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leela wrote;

end up as all theoretical talk that cannot be substantiated. The
clincial result may be palliation or suppression, while we fool
ourselves into thinking that we're curing some vague "central
disturbance'.

I guess you mean to refer to the "basic delusion", same as "essence or theme
of a remedy"?

Basicly the idea of "Central disturbance" comes from Hahnemann (Aph 7):

"Now, as in a disease, from which no manifest exciting or maintaining cause
(causa occasionalis) has to be removed1, we can perceive nothing but the
morbid symptoms, it must (regard being had to the possibility of a miasm,
and attention paid to the accessory circumstances, § 5) be the symptoms
alone by which the disease demands and points to the remedy suited to
relieve it - and, moreover, the totality of these its symptoms, of this
outwardly reflected picture of the internal essence of the disease, that is,
of the affection of the vital force, must be the principal, or the sole
means, whereby the disease can make known what remedy it requires - the only
thing that can determine the choice of the most appropriate remedy - and
thus, in a word, the totality2 of the symptoms must be the principal, indeed
the only thing the physician has to take note of in every case of disease
and to remove by means of his art, in order that it shall be cured and
transformed into health."

I would say our Materia Medica are filled with "images of central
disturbance"?
Of cource but all techniques, studying of symptoms, state and causes (Aph
5,6,7, 153, 210-213) serve the same purpose, to find the simillimum, the
remedy that corresponds with this "the affection of the vital force".
I remember a very common question we have "Why Should

Very vague, what do you mean by constitutional? constitutional as opposite
of local prescribing, or chronic instead of acute, or do you mean individual
based constitutional, instead of miasmatic constitutional?
I guess you mean the last one, but a prescription on the "central
distrubances" is not by definition the prescription of the individual
simillimum. I would say on the contrary, the central disturbance is based on
the altered, or affected vital force instead of the individual
characteristics and symptoms.
Here you are fighting the same battle as i.e. Hahnemann, Sehgal, Sankaran,
Ortega, Vijayakar etc. but unfortunely they are not (always) understood.
Ofcource they are not "inferior methods", but it is most important that each
homeopath is aware of what he is doing by folowing them. When he has that
understanding, other "new" methods easily can be integrated, because he
knows where they come from.
But when the rules are followed in a mechanical manner, they will lead to
nowhere.
A miasmatic presription is dynamicly no mystery description, it is basicly
bound to the same rules, we still must prescribe for the remedy "of the
affection of the vital force"

Maybe a bit traditional but yet another quotte (Aph 82):

"Although, by the discovery of that great source of chronic diseases, as
also by the discovery of the specific homoeopathic remedies for the psora,
medicine has advanced some steps nearer to a knowledge of the nature of the
majority of diseases it has to cure, yet, for settling the indication in
each case of chronic (psoric) disease he is called on to cure, the duty of a
careful apprehension of its ascertainable symptoms and characteristics is as
indispensable for the homoeopathic physician as it was before that
discovery, as no real cure of this or of other diseases can take place
without a strict particular treatment (individualization) of each case of
disease - only that in this investigation some difference is to be made when
the affection is an acute and rapidly developed disease, and when it is a
chronic one; seeing that, in acute disease, the chief symptoms strike us and
become evident to the senses more quickly, and hence much less time is
requisite for tracing the picture of the disease and much fewer questions
are required to be asked1, as almost everything is self-evident, than in a
chronic disease which has been gradually progressing for several years, in
which the symptoms are much more difficult to be ascertained."

And don't forget this one (Aph 2):
"The highest ideal of cure is rapid, gentle and permanent restoration of the
health, or removal and annihilation of the disease in its whole extent, in
the shortest, most reliable, and most harmless way, on easily comprehensible
principles."

Kind regards, Piet

I would say the 'central disturbance' is what needs to be cured and
this is always mirrored in the presenting complaint whether it be acute
or chronic - this being the purpose of the vital force.

Best wishes, Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
edited
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-- I am enjoying this discussion:-)
Simon

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Piet Guijt wrote:
Hello Piet,

or theme

Does it???
" thus, in a word, the totality2 of the symptoms must be the
principal, indeed
disease

***THIS IS WHAT IS MORE OBVIOUS AND IMPORTANT IN APHORISM 7
***ACtually I think the appropirate words are proving of remedies.

opposite
individual

***Well it cetainly seems to be vague to YOU.
Read my article opn Miasms II, you'll find out what the term
constitutional excompasses as we mean it to, to describe the chronic
remedy.
based on
***Ahh - if this isn't VAGUE, what is?!
Doesn't seem to gel with the most important part of APhorism 7.
dr. leela

Hi Dr L,

where are these articles you refer to?? Where can I find them?
thanks

Simon