Minutus

an old article I'd read about
I read that too, In the case I quoted I used a 3x, which would normaly
have some (but not much) crataegus in it, BUT I was working from
someone elses clinic, and my portable Kit (of only about 600
remedies ) had no crataegus in potency and I did not have my
tinctures with me, so I have to confess it was a machine made remedy.
That certainly worked.

Any advance on 3X?

Well yes I have.

I normaly use crataegus on drop doses, but short term only as I
consider that it can be slightly alopathic. I treated myself for a
suspected thrombosis in my ankle. ( I know, a fool for a patient and an
idiot for a Homeopath ;)but would not want anyone else to take
responsibility for my even more foolish actions to come ) I had been
sat in front of a fire, dead still with a wonky laptop with a loose
conection on my knee for several hours (definately a fool for a patient-
Probably you lots fault for sending interesting posts) when I moved
ankle was painfull and it got worse and more swolen over next day.
Crataegus 0 helped, but also made my gums bleed much more than usual.
This may have been partly due to my vital force doing what was needed
and thinning the blood but I suspect it was alopathic. Over next few
days Had lots of muscle tests and gradually needed higher potencies, at
quite regular intervals. The potencies would take the pain and swelling
away only to return in 1-3 hours at first. lowere potencies I hand
succussed from tincture( I like doing that when I have time, although I
know the machine works, higher ones, 200 up to 10M I used the machine
for obvious reasons)

Went Skiing on a working holiday for the Ski club of Great Britain 2
weeks later, took a bit of crataegus tincture before the flight which
made my gums bleed again (suspect alopathic this time) , but ankle was
fine on holiday and flight back. Had occaisional foot pain since which
still responds to crataegus. May be worth thinking about blood clots
when patients have unexplained foot pains!

Jeremy

Cases where I have used Crataegus in potency were cases where it was indicated, just like any other homeopathic prescription. Hypertension, irritability, irregular heart, full, strong pulse being general indications.

I have never used it in tincture, only in potency. 6X, 12X, 30X and 200C. No higher. I have used it starting in 30X with pt's on heart meds. As weaned off, decreased potency (to 12X then 6X) to get come cardiac glycosides.

I find it a very useful and effective remedy when symptoms fit, of course!

David
I read that too, In the case I quoted I used a 3x, which would normaly
have some (but not much) crataegus in it, BUT I was working from
someone elses clinic, and my portable Kit (of only about 600
remedies ) had no crataegus in potency and I did not have my
tinctures with me, so I have to confess it was a machine made remedy.
That certainly worked.

Any advance on 3X?

Well yes I have.

I normaly use crataegus on drop doses, but short term only as I
consider that it can be slightly alopathic. I treated myself for a
suspected thrombosis in my ankle. ( I know, a fool for a patient and an
idiot for a Homeopath ;)but would not want anyone else to take
responsibility for my even more foolish actions to come ) I had been
sat in front of a fire, dead still with a wonky laptop with a loose
conection on my knee for several hours (definately a fool for a patient-
Probably you lots fault for sending interesting posts) when I moved
ankle was painfull and it got worse and more swolen over next day.
Crataegus 0 helped, but also made my gums bleed much more than usual.
This may have been partly due to my vital force doing what was needed
and thinning the blood but I suspect it was alopathic. Over next few
days Had lots of muscle tests and gradually needed higher potencies, at
quite regular intervals. The potencies would take the pain and swelling
away only to return in 1-3 hours at first. lowere potencies I hand
succussed from tincture( I like doing that when I have time, although I
know the machine works, higher ones, 200 up to 10M I used the machine
for obvious reasons)

Went Skiing on a working holiday for the Ski club of Great Britain 2
weeks later, took a bit of crataegus tincture before the flight which
made my gums bleed again (suspect alopathic this time) , but ankle was
fine on holiday and flight back. Had occaisional foot pain since which
still responds to crataegus. May be worth thinking about blood clots
when patients have unexplained foot pains!

Jeremy
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Jeremy,
Hm, allopathic or nutritional, and where does one draw the difference...
One difference to my mind--whereas no one suffers from a "drug
defiency", people *can*
suffer from nutritional deficiencies, which presumably explains some
(greater or lesser)
part of an herb's action.

More on my experience with it below...
That's curious, I wonder why it would have that effect? How many drops
did you take, if you
recall? We (myself, my husband and my son) have used it in capsule
form at various times
in pretty substantial amounts, and never had that happen. For me it
has acted as an
adrenal support agent--allopathic in a way (or nutritional?), but the
best I could do at the time.

Anyway, it sounds like it was an effective "stop-gap" measure, which is
handy, even if
not ideal!

Thanks for sharing these experiences; given me more "food for thought"!
Shannon

.Hi Shannon

That's curious, I wonder why it would have that effect? How many drops
did you take, if you recall?

I used 10 drops TDS, and reduced it to 5 drops with the bleeding. First dose
may have been a bit bigger, A splash out of a 500ml bottle! but definitely
less than a teaspoon (I believe herbalists give teaspoon sized doses or more
routinely - not sure about that, so I do not recomend trying it)
The second time it was 5 drops before the flight and my gums bled then too.
Maybe it was not alopathic, Maybe my VF knew my blood needed thining. I
stopped the tincture when I got there and started skiing though, did not fancy
risking a bang on the head or a broken bone with blood that did not want to clot
Though god knows what alopaths would have had me on. Maybe taken long term
the crataegus may strengthen the blood vessels and make bleeding less likely?
After I sent the post I was expecting someone to tell me there was no such
thing as being slightly alopathic, like you can't be 'slightly pregnant' or
'slightly dead', but life is not that simple IMO.
Stangely The crataegus seemed to make everything thinner, Phloegm, saliva,
like a sort of herbal Benylin. My sister found the same taking crataegus when
she had a 'thick' cold. (off topic but have you ever heard that some women
recon they get pregnant easier on Benylin cough mixture? apparently everything
flows better- perhaps ctataegus could be useful there - If the symptoms fit of
course )
Another crataegus story, when walking with an old dog, he suddenly lay on
the floor panting and his tongue looked very blue. It was a hot day and we had a
bottle of water with us, so I crushed some hawthorn leaves into the water
(wrong time of year for berries) and shook it up and gave it to the dog who
made an instant recovery! shouldn't have just needed the water as we were giving
him occaisional drinks.
One thought I have about crataegus is that it is edible, tastes not too bad
and is quite plentifull. When times were hard a lot of our ancesters must have
eaten the berries, so we may have a genetic need for them? May be true for a
lot of herbal remedies made from common weeds. Cannot imagine dogs eating
them much though.
Jeremy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi JEremy,
very interesting stories on Crataegus.
A possible blood thinner?! A good observation!
thanks,
D.r leela

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, jeremycrowley@a... wrote:
usual.
drops
First dose
definitely
doses or more
then too.
thining. I
did not fancy
want to clot
long term
less likely?
no such
pregnant' or
saliva,
crataegus when
some women
apparently everything
symptoms fit of
lay on
and we had a
the water
the dog who
we were giving
too bad
ancesters must have
true for a
eating

I prescribe Crateagus MT to all my heart patients. It brings down their BP and cholesterol levels which means they can cut down on their allopathic medication. They also say they feel better. Dr Ramakrishnan prescribes 6 drops 3x a day (must be taken after meals as may cause indigestion) but I tend to start at 5 drops and increase to 20 drops. It works faster than the 6 months that Dr R gives it. However I have studied herbal medicine and am used to the teaspoon doses!!
Other herbal medicines I use frequently are Crampbark (which is sometimes more effective mixed with Angelica) for period pain (useful while the homeopathic Rx kicks in) Lobelia (5 drops for this one) as a lung tonic and it can be used instead of Ventalin in asthmatics, and concoctions for throat and mouth disorders topically, sleep concoctions instead of taking sleeping tablets , Avena Sativa for coming off drugs etc etc . I know many of you may look on this as very allopathic but in my experience it does not interfere with homeopathic remedies I give and it weans patients off their allopathic medication which they may be getting side effects from which the herbal Rx don't usually give. I have never heard of the gums bleeding with Crateagus so Jeremy must be very sensitive to it. Most of these herbal remedies can be found documented in Boericke.
Regards
Rochelle (shielding herself with a outsize umbrella from the backlash I will get from this post!!!)