Minutus

Hi.

I have a patient who is experiencing "foot drop" (painless paralysis of extensors) as a result of nerve damage from Vincristin chemotherapy.

Other symptoms are pain in the long bones, oppressive sensation in chest (from depletion of white blood cells as a result of the chemo toxicity), tingling in the fingertips, and a sensation of weakness << physical exertion. She says she feels as if anyone bumped her they'd knock her right over. (she's quite physically fit, walks a lot usually, so this is an unusual state for her.).

I have a couple of possible remedy ideas (would be happy to hear others), but I can't figure out how to repertorize the "foot drop." Now I'm really curious about what rubrics, other than "painless paralysis of extensors" might describe the actual phenomenon with her feet when she's walking. What happens is her feet are flopping flat when she takes a step.

Thanks!

Rosemary

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Don't know how far this is useful.
Will the causticum symptom of 'paralysis of single organs' apply
here ?
The weakness or the feeling of it can also be rubricised.
Reg
venkat
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Rosemary C Hyde PhD"
wrote:
paralysis of extensors) as a result of nerve damage from Vincristin
chemotherapy.
chest (from depletion of white blood cells as a result of the chemo
toxicity), tingling in the fingertips, and a sensation of weakness <<
physical exertion. She says she feels as if anyone bumped her they'd
knock her right over. (she's quite physically fit, walks a lot
usually, so this is an unusual state for her.).
others), but I can't figure out how to repertorize the "foot drop."
Now I'm really curious about what rubrics, other than "painless
paralysis of extensors" might describe the actual phenomenon with her
feet when she's walking. What happens is her feet are flopping flat
when she takes a step.

Hi Rosemary,
There's "Extremities, walking, slapping", with only manganum in it. (I
don't know that rx at all, so might not be relevant...)
Shannon

Hello, one possible approach is to look at the causation which is the
chemotherapy because this is how the nerve damage occurred as well as the
other symptoms.

Nux vomica would be one such remedy to consider in ailments from chemo and
in the materia medica it says "drags his feet while walking", "legs feel
numb and paralysed" "arms numb" "spasmodic constriction of the chest".

I thought this might be useful for you. Thank you. Kerry
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on 4/19/05 8:42 PM, Rosemary C Hyde PhD at rosemarychyde@mindspring.com
wrote:
HI Rosemary.

The bone pain and the foot drop could well be symptoms of the Vincristine
itself--the "slapping" foot drop is one of its symptoms according to Marsh.
Best to you Rosemary,
Andy

===================================================
(Marshes Clinical Drug Pictures --in Referenceworks F)

===========
Vincristine
===========

Uses
Leukaemia.
CNS
Neuritic pain; sensory loss; paraesthesia;

loss of deep tendon reflexes; muscle wasting; ataxia; paresis;

cranial nerve palsies; convulsions; vertigo; dizziness; motor difficulties;
sensory impairment; paraesthesia.
CVS
Hypertension; hypotension.
Ear
Deafness.
Eye/Vision
Ocular palsies; nystagmus; diplopia.
G.I
Constipation; abdominal cramps; paralytic ileus; diarrhoea; weight loss;
nausea; vomiting; oral ulceration; intestinal necrosis or perforation;
anorexia.
Haematology
Leucopenia; anaemia; thrombocytopenia.
Kidney/Bladder
Syndrome of inappropriate antidiuretic hormone; hyponatremia; polyuria;
dysuria; urinary retention; bladder atony; hyperuricemia; uric acid
nephropathy.
Mouth
Parotid gland pain.
Musculoskeletal
back pain; limb pain; myalgia; jaw pain.
Respiratory
Laryngeal nerve paralysis; pharyngeal pain.
Skin
Alopecia; rash.
=====================================
RADIATION AND/OR CHEMOTHERAPY EFFECTS

NUCLEAR RADIATION ILL EFFECTS
Referenceworks F (Includes Complete Rep 2002)
Radiation exposure/treatment ailments from: aloe-v.,alum-cly (speculative),
androc. (scorpions are resistant to radiation (anecdotal)), bol-luc., cac.,
cadm., cadm-i., cadm-s., calc-f., calc-sil., caras., fl-ac., funi-umb.,
germ. (crude form is protective), gink.(tree is protected (anecdotal),
goss., hyper.,lap-q-r (speculative) laur-n., len-c., lumb-t (speculation).,
medul-o., myt-e-p., nat-mar (speculative)., phos., plut-n., podo. (extract),
polyp-u.,Rad-br., seq-g., sol, spect (speculative)., stront-c., tama.,
trem-f., trig-f-g., unc-t., uran-n., visc.?, waln-b., x-ray.

Synthesis 8.1.4
GENERALS - RADIATION THERAPY; from: cadm-i., cadm-s., calc-sil., ferr-sil.,
fl-ac., germ-met., kali-sil., lith-f., lith-m., lith-met., lith-p., lith-s.,
mag-sil., mang-sil., nat-sil., phos., plut-n., rad-br., sil., sil-met.,
stront-c., x-ray.

GENERALS - RADIATION THERAPY; from - chemotherapy agg.:kali-p. lith-f.
lith-m. lith-met. lith-p. lith-s. sep. uncar-tom.

GENERALS - RADIUM TREATMENTS; from: cadm-met. caust. rad-br.

STOMACH - ULCERS - radiation treatment for acne; after: phos.

CHEST - CANCER - Mammae - accompanied by - pain - radiation; after: hippoz.
streptom.

EXTREMITIES - PAIN - rheumatic - radiation therapy; after: rad-br.

SKIN - ULCERS - necrosis - radiation therapy; from: cadm-i.

P. Sankaran
While suggesting remedies such as Radium brom., Stront. carb., X - ray,
Uran. nit. etc. for the ill - effects of nuclear radiation. Bellokkossy says
that nosodes such as Tuberculinum, Influenzinum Psorinum, Pneumococcin etc.
enhance the effects of these remedies.
===
Food (immediate post-exposure):--Miso soup (fresh miso used) for three days
after the radiation exposure (X-ray, radiotherapy) (reference--hospital
experience from Japan after nuclear bomb blast 1945).
===
Other--Iodine 131 from nuclear plant or bomb fallout--Potassium iodide taken
internally to load thyroid with iodine so as to promote excretion of
radioactive specie.
========================
CHEMOTHERAPY ILL EFFECTS
Referenceworks F (Includes Complete Rep 2002)
Chemotherapy ailments from: aq-tun.,cadm., cadm-s., chloram., chlorq-s.,
dronab., ethof., ip., lith-f., lith-m., lith-met., lith-p., lith-s.,
nos-anop., oliv-b., oprelv., phos., sep., tab., unc-t., x-ray

Synthesis 8.1.4
GENERALS - RADIATION THERAPY; from - chemotherapy agg.:kali-p. lith-f.
lith-m. lith-met. lith-p. lith-s. sep. uncar-tom.

STOMACH - NAUSEA - medicine; after - allopathic - chemotherapy; after:sep.
tab.

GENERALS - WEAKNESS - chemotherapy; after: kali-p., sep.

===
--Herbal or low potency homeopathic: Liver detox ongoing (e.g HEEL detox
kit)
===
--Other:Tautopathic of chemo agent.

==============

R osemary wrote:
I have a patient who is experiencing "foot drop" (painless paralysis of
extensors) as a result of nerve damage from Vincristin chemotherapy.

Other symptoms are pain in the long bones, oppressive sensation in chest
(from depletion of white blood cells as a result of the chemo toxicity),
tingling in the fingertips, and a sensation of weakness << physical
exertion. She says she feels as if anyone bumped her they'd knock her right
over. (she's quite physically fit, walks a lot usually, so this is an
unusual state for her.).

I have a couple of possible remedy ideas (would be happy to hear others),
but I can't figure out how to repertorize the "foot drop." Now I'm really
curious about what rubrics, other than "painless paralysis of extensors"
might describe the actual phenomenon with her feet when she's walking. What
happens is her feet are flopping flat when she takes a step.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Rosemary

I have some ideas on the specific effect on the lower extremeties - have
written a paper on problems of the lower extremeties in general, and from
what i can tell from your description and reading about the side effects of
Vincristine that it is likely to be a problem with the Sacral plexus 1 and
Lumbar plexus 5, and the Lumbar plexus 4 and 5 cover the foot, heel,
gastrocnemius.

I guess the name for this kind of problem is peripheral neuropathy and
parasthesias, with depression of the Achilles tendon reflexes, motor
weakness as well as generalised depression of the deep tendon reflexes.

The slapping gait and the foot drop are usually accompanied by clumsiness
of the hands.
Other neuropathies caused by treatment with this drug are antonomic
neuropathy and cranial nerve functional impairment.

However, the information indicates that after treatment, these symptoms
usually disappear .

Remedies specific to particular nerve plexii are in this case

S1 - Left side especially -- Elaps, Veratrum
L4 - Left side - alum, calc.c, valerian
Right side - Lyc, Phos, Plat, Plb.

L5 - Left side - Alum, Lyc, Phos, Rhus-t, thuj, Valerian
Right side - Lyc, Phos, Plat, Plb.

As you can see there are some cross overs here - Plb stands out.

Also, a thought - the remedy Catharanthus Rosea (Vinca rosea) has been
proven by Dr. Mukherjee, and has also had clinical trials using Dr.
Banerji's clinic base.
I have some of the useful symptoms produced that have been trialed and
they include alopecia, menorrhagia, muscles of body, especially of neck,
shoulders and back feel tired, anaemia,.
It may be worth considering antidoting to some degree - unfortunately I
don't have all the published proving info -, but the potencies used were 1x,
6C and 30th, depending on the sphere of action desired.

GENERALS - EXTENSORS; complaints of
EXTREMITIES - PARALYSIS - Ankles - Extensors
EXTREMITIES - PARALYSIS - Muscles - Extensor muscles
EXTREMITIES - PARALYSIS - Thighs - Extensors
EXTREMITIES - PARALYSIS - Toes - Extensors of
EXTREMITIES - PARALYSIS - Wrists - Extensors
EXTREMITIES - WEAKNESS - Feet - Muscles - Extensor muscles
EXTREMITIES - WEAKNESS - Legs - Muscles - Extensor muscles
EXTREMITIES - WOODEN sensation - Thighs - Muscles - Extensor muscles
GENERALS - PARALYSIS - Muscles - Extensor muscles
EXTREMITIES - PHENOMENA - PARALYSIS - general - muscles - extensor
EXTREMITIES - PHENOMENA - PARALYSIS - general - lower limbs - thighs -
muscles, extensor
EXTREMITIES - PHENOMENA - PARALYSIS - general - lower limbs - toes -
muscles, extensor
EXTREMITIES - PHENOMENA - WEAKNESS - lower limbs - legs - muscles,
extensor
EXTREMITIES - PHENOMENA - WEAKNESS - lower limbs - feet - muscles,
extensor
GENERALITIES - PHENOMENA - PARALYSIS - general - muscles - extensor

Best

Robyn
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Thank you all SO MUCH for your helpful information on this. Actually, the rubric "Extremities walking slapping" was exactly what I was looking for, and Manganum is an excellent consideration. Thanks, Shannon. I'd looked at Plb, but Plb paralysis is usually painful, and this is painless in itself, so I was looking for something else. Nux-v is also a very interesting thought, considering the toxicity aspect. Thank you Kerry. I'd been using Ars for this, but a switch to a dose or two of Nux-v might be helpful.

And Robyn, thanks so much for the excellent physiological information, rubrics, and Vinca info.

Kali-p addresses the weakness, but not the paralysis particularly, and she's having no digestive symptoms at all from this, so that didn't seem as though it targeted closely enough what's happening.

As always, Andy, thanks so much for your complete set of information. I didn't know ReferenceWorks had drug profiles -- cool! I know these are symptoms of the medication itself, but when they reach this point they tend not to go away completely and the person is left with a lifelong partial paralysis, which I'm trying to counteract immediately. This patient typically gets much worse effects from things at much earlier times than normal (and her remedy is Ph-ac, which she's taking. I want to give her an acute remedy for this immediate situation. )

I'd tried Caust with her earlier for a different symptom, and it was absolutely useless -- I wondered about that, too, Venkat )

Thank you all for sharing your wonderful knowledge -- as I'd hoped this challenge became a great learning experience, for me, at least. )

Rosemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

on 4/20/05 9:39 AM, Rosemary C Hyde PhD at rosemarychyde@mindspring.com
wrote:

I didn't know ReferenceWorks had drug profiles -- cool!

(((Hi Rosemary, drug rx in RFW are for a set of rx compiled by Marsh (Called
Clinical Drug Pictures) (so as to be in order to use these rx as homeopathic
rx in their own right based on toxicology). But the info is also
toxicological so applies to poisoning as well. So at least some allopathics
included for that purpose.
on 4/20/05 9:39 AM, Rosemary C Hyde PhD at rosemarychyde@mindspring.com
wrote:

I know these are
(( Great idea, Rosemary and interesting technique. So you treat the
iatrogenic sx as if they were a poisoning subtotality--- with a homeopathic
rx for that subtotality, not a tautopathic.

I see your approach as kind of a prophylactic one--approaching the
susceptibility to the poisoning itself with an analog of the symptoms by a
different facsimile. The tautopathic approach I have viewed as a type of
"drainage", since experiments by boiron demo this and we use it this way for
blocking layers with apparent success.

Tautopathy in infectious disease also acts as an a priori prophylactic
before the genius epidemicus is known (the homeopathic rx for the group
disease). I wonder if it would act this way in this situation.

So you are individualizing the response to the med by using another rx with
similar sx, instead of the tautopathic.
Is this how you view your approach here, or do you see the "acute"
homeopathic rx so used in another way.

Would be interesting if the rx for the poisoning subtotality (assuming her
rx otherwise was ph-ac) elucidated another rx appropriate for the case in
general by highlighting an area of susceptibility not otherwise obvious.
Best,
Andy

Hi Rosemary
i think u can consult Kent's repertory of the homeopathic mat medica, please see the chapter extremities, rub- paralysis, sub rub- lower limb, sub sub rubric-pain less. I thik you can get some help from there, other wise you can also consult complete repertory/ synthesis repertory.
thanks
rishi

Rosemary C Hyde PhD wrote:
Hi.

I have a patient who is experiencing "foot drop" (painless paralysis of extensors) as a result of nerve damage from Vincristin chemotherapy.

Other symptoms are pain in the long bones, oppressive sensation in chest (from depletion of white blood cells as a result of the chemo toxicity), tingling in the fingertips, and a sensation of weakness << physical exertion. She says she feels as if anyone bumped her they'd knock her right over. (she's quite physically fit, walks a lot usually, so this is an unusual state for her.).

I have a couple of possible remedy ideas (would be happy to hear others), but I can't figure out how to repertorize the "foot drop." Now I'm really curious about what rubrics, other than "painless paralysis of extensors" might describe the actual phenomenon with her feet when she's walking. What happens is her feet are flopping flat when she takes a step.

Thanks!

Rosemary

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