Minutus

Piet said:
the
The attitude of the patient to his illness, the way he expains his
complaints or answers the question, in themselves may form part of a mental
symptom. It is the state of mood and disposition as described in aphorism
213.
It can be broken down in components to find it in the repertory.
This is a method particular promoted by Dr. M.L. Sehgal.
Also described by R.Sankaran in his 'Spirit of Homoeopathy'
And last but not least, I saw an article in the 'Homoeopathic links' 2/00
about an Iranian homeopath named Hossein Beheshti, who also uses a sort
alike method.
To my surprise I saw the article was written by Peter Chappel and
......Soroush Ebraahimi !!!!!!!!!
Maybe you can tell me more on the subject, then I can tell to you.

regards, Piet

Dear Piet

Hossaien Beheshti is a very able Homoeopath. I have had the honour of
sitting in his Homoeopathic philosophy classes.

Hossein Beheshti trained in USA as an electronics engineer obtaining his MSc
from University of Santa Barbara in California. He returned to Iran in the
early 80s. He now runs his family owned publication house and manages
poultry farms and other commercial activity. He is a management consultant
but lives for Homoeopathy. He used all his resources to promote and
establish the roots of Homoeopathy in Iran.
He took to Homoeopathy like duck to water. He apparently read Kent's
Philosophy three times in three days!

When he was new to Homoeopathy he was considering various techniques from
different sources. I think based on Dr Sehgal's method he came up with the
following which I had included in the notes on 'Case-Taking'.

During case taking each pt has three lots of symptoms:
1- Those that they were going to tell you about.
2- Those that they were NOT going to tell you about. (Towards the end of my
interviews, I ask bluntly - Is there any thing that you had decided not to
tell me?)
3- Those that they are not aware of. These are worth a million because
these show the real character of the patient to you and if you are a sharp
observer and know your repertory well you should be able to put these in
their slots and solve the case with ease.

The following case (curtsey - Dr Shahrdar) would demonstrate 3 above:

Girl of seven, was complaining of pain in the right side of her chest. The
pain was worse breathing. On suspecting a cold coming up and using the
modality of worse movement, Bry 6c was prescribed by her father. When she
woke up the next morning, she still complained of chest pains. Bry 6c was
given and she was sent off to school. However, because she could not stand
the pain, she was sent home from school.

As two days before she had knocked her side on to the edge of a swimming
pool. It was thought that perhaps a shock/knock had been experienced, she
was given Arnica 30c. Several doses were given until the night and the pain
would amel only for a short period. The patient was even X-rayed to ensure
that her ribs had not broken. X-rays did not show any breaks or cracks. More
doses of Arnica were given but did not resolve the problem.

The girl was seeking attention and crying with her pain - she was given Puls
30c but this too was of no use.

(Father gives up and Dr Shahrdar now takes over).

At this stage, it was decided to pay more attention to her mental/emotional
state and to prescribe on the totality of that picture. The observations of
this young girl were as follows:

Whilst crying intensely, she was sitting next to her father and wanted to
lean on him. At the same time she was saying "For God's sake do something
for me. Can you not see how much pain I am in? Why won't you do any thing
for me?" All the time she was crying.

Rubrics:
Begging
Clinging, persons or furniture, to
Delirium, crying for help
Weeping, pains with.

The only remedy covering the above symptoms is Stramonium. Stram 6c was
prescribed. After about 3 minutes the patient's pain was much less and
after a quarter of an hour her pain had ceased altogether and the patient
was peaceful.
After about 4 hours, there was a slight experience of pain but much less
than before. Stram 6c was repeated. Just before her bed time the same thing
happened and the remedy was repeated and the in the morning the child was
completely well.
Attention needs to be drawn to the fact that the reason the last
prescription was successful was that the mental/emotional state of the
patient was taken into consideration. Note that there was no need to ask
her any questions but the observation of her situation and the way she
described her pain was sufficient.

Although traditionally in most acute cases little attention is paid to
mental and emotional state of the patient and in the main physical symptoms
are considered, only diagnosis on the totality - including mental and
emotional status can ensure that success is nearly 100 per cent.
===============

I have a case from Hussein which shows how powerful this method can be.
Parents bring in two children a boy of 4 and a girl of 18 months.

The girl takes a pen from the desk.

The father takes the pen from the girl and puts it back on the desk.

The girl screams and then cries.

At the homoeopath's suggestion the pen is given back to the girl who then
quietens down.

The girl's older brother now grabs the pen,

She sets off crying again and the boy on seeing this gives the pen back to
his sister.

This boy had also refused to answer questions, even his name.

Is there a paucity of symptoms?
Girl's case:

Obstinate

Contradiction, Intolerant of

Shrieks in anger

Weeping in anger

Perseverance

The only remedy is Nux-v
The boy's case:

Desires what the other one has/uses

Sympathy

Answer refuses to

The only remedy is Phos.

(Both did well on these remedies)

===============

However, I must warn that unless you cover the totality you are likely to
make big mistakes. The remedy must be checked to see if it covers the main
symptoms.

Peter Chappell also related the case where Dr Sankran was visiting him in
London. A patient comes in and sits down and soon after Dr Sankran writes
something on a small piece of paper, tears it, forms it into a ball and
leaves it on the desk.

After the pt leaves, they discuss the case and finally agree on the remedy.
Dr Sankran then asks Peter to open the ball of paper. It carried the name
of the remedy!

So sharp observation and knowledge of the repertory can save you a lot of
hassle.

--------

But let me tell you this, Hossein takes his hat off to Dr Shahrdar and
recognises him for the marvellous and natural homoeopath that he is.

Good healing
Soroush

Suroush, what were the illnesses that the boy and girl came for?

Andrew

No idea?
The prescription seems to have been identified without case taking!!

Rgds
Soroush

Message: 17
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:04:36 +0300
From: "Phosphor"
Subject: Re: State of disposition/Hussein Beheshti
its meaningless to talk of totality per se. Homeopathy does not treat all
symptoms, only those arising from a disturbance of the vital force. It does
not treat mental symptoms 'spun purely from the imagination,' for example,
or symptoms arising from dietary or lifestyle indiscretions which can be
rectified by appropriate changes. These days many or most people in the west
suffer from various food intolerances , the plethoric symptoms of which
could be uselessly repertorised by the gullible homeopath who searches for
the idol of the totality.

Andrew

Dear Andrew,

Your point is well taken but could be confusing to those who are new to
homoeopathy. Is there a danger they might throw out the baby (the totality
of the *characteristic symptoms") with the bath water (the "idol" of the
totality')? When Hahnemann is speaking of the totality of the symptoms he
is taking about the visible Gestalt-pattern that offers a glimpse of the
invisible Wesen (Esse) of the disease state. When a homoeopaths speaks of
the "totality oft the symptoms" they should know that they must pass
judgement on the *characteristic value of symptoms*. In this process the
homoeopath must select those symptoms which are the most Striking,
Exceptional, Unusual and Oddly characteristic of the individual (aph 153).
Hahnemann uses two terms when speaking of the collection of the symptoms,
i.e the Inbegriff (essential nature) and Gesammtheit (totality). A
homoeopath must take the meaning of both these terms into account.

Essence/Inbegriff and Totality/Gesammtheit

In the Organon Samuel Hahnemann frequently uses two terms when
referring to the collection of the signs and symptoms. The German
homoeopath and English translator, Gaby Rottler, and I carried out a review
the terms Inbegriff and Gesammtheit. Gesammtheit means the totality of a
phenomenon. The word Gesamtheit appears in aphorism 105 and the word
Gesammtheit is found in aphorisms 7, 18, 24, 25, 27, 70, 102, 103, 104,
105, 147, 192, 241 and 258. This is the source of the famous homoeopathic
maxim, the totality of the signs, befallments and symptoms. This is a
guiding light in homoeopathic case taking because it expresses the total
field of the disease phenomena.

The term Inbegriff means the essence, inner idea, or essential nature
of a phenomenon. With this term Hahnemann emphasizes the comprehension of
the meaning of the essential image that disease Gestalt presents. The term
Inbegriff is used in Aphorisms 8, 15, 16 (FN), 17, 18, 22, 81 (FN), 100,
101, 102, 103, 135, 152, 153, 169, 181, 196, 210, 217, 241, and 274. In
aphorism 135 Hahnemann refers to the 'Inbegriff der Krankheitselemente',
which means the essential elements of the disease. It is these essential
elements that offer the characteristics of the disease-tuned life force,
the Vigor Vitae.

The root of Inbegriff is the verb,‘begreifen’, which means to touch,
handle, comprise, include, comprehend, and understand in the sense of
coming in contact with something. This definition offers great insight in
the role of the Esse in classical homoeopathy. The noun, Begriff, means an
idea, notion, conception, or comprehension. Therefore the term Inbegriff
means the inner idea, essence, and character as in a short summary that
offers a clear picture of a phenomenon. This analysis offers a view of the
inner essence, nature, or genius of a disease state.

The essence is the redline characteristics that define the patient and
their disease state as a unity. From this we can see that the simple
collection of the symptoms is not enough because we must *understand their
meaning.* We cannot see the inner Wesen of a disease but we can understand
the essential elements of the illness by observing its Gestalt-pattern. The
Gestalt of the disease is made up of the objective signs, coincidental
befallments and subjective symptoms that are characteristic of archetypal
phenomena that must be interpreted by the observer. This is how we learn to
translate the language of the vital force into the rubrics of the materia
medica.

The first paragraph of the Introduction of the 5th and 6th Organon says
since the beginning of time human beings have suffered both individually
and collectively from diseases of moral and physical causes. Since that
time civilization has compounded the complexity of natural illness and
produced a wide variety of complex disease phenomena. One the major
breakthroughs of the Hahnemann's advanced methods is that he categorized
disease into two classifications, i.e. individual diseases based on
multiple causations and collective diseases based on a single common cause.
This is one of the most enlightening points of homoeopathy but most
practitioner have not given it proper thought. The founder developed two
case taking methods on this basis, i.e. the individual anamnesis and the
group anamnesis. To think in terms of the individual and collective
diseases was essential in the original homoeopathic paradigm.

The idea of individual and collect is very important in the field of
psychology as well as social diseases. When a case is based on multiple
causations and unique symptoms the method of case taking is the personal
anamnesis. When a case is based on a common cause and similar symptoms the
method of case taking is the group anamnesis (aphorisms 101, 102, 103).
Hahnemann used the group anamnesis for traumas and accidents, endemic
nutritional disorders, environmentally induced diseases, and acute and
chronic infectious miasms. Collective disorders might also include mass
hysteria and group psychosis. All of the characterizations and rubrics
known for psora, pseudopsora, sycosis, syphilis, vaccinosis, Hepatitis-B
and AIDS are based on a collective anamnesis. When a homoeopath sees the
symptoms of a collective disorder dominating the vital force they know they
are viewing a collective disorder like a miasm. This is an important
differential factor.

A simple comment of the idea of mental symptoms versus mental state.
The Founder studied innate character as well as temporary emotional moods
and feelings. He pointed out the important of understanding the physical
constitution and "character" the Geist (intellect) and Gumut (emotional
disposition) [aphorism 5] as well as the totality of the symptoms that
makes up the disease Gestalt [aph 6.]. I believe this can again be best
understood by Hahnemann's terms disease Gestalt, Inbegriff and Gesammtheit.
It is an understanding of the totality of the essential elements of the
disease Gestalt that leads to the true simillimum. The concept of the
Gestalt-pattern is very important because it leads to the core complexes
that make up archetypal phenomena that comes directly from the unconscious.

It is not a matter of mental symptoms versus mental state. This is two
sides of the same coin. Sometimes it is the state of the state of the
disposition that offers a recognizable pattern that is archetypal of the
remedy while in other cases there are non-logical concomitants that stand
out as so strange, rare and peculiar that they express the Esse of the
phenomena.

Sincerely, David Little
---------------
"It is the life-force which cures diseases because a dead man needs no more
medicines."

Samuel Hahnemann

Visit our website on Hahnemannian Homoeopathy and Cyberspace Homoeopathic
Academy at
http://www.simillimum.com
David Little © 2000

Hi!
I agree in that Ignatia responds to the few symptoms we know of this case but
something essential is missing to be able to prescribe apropriately: this is
the patient's perception of her state.
The accident she witnessed is, you said is the causation, but i believe that
it is how the patient perceives it that can really help us to find a
remedy. However she perceives her situation is what makes it individual,
specific, characteristic of herself. We know she cries but what does the
patient feels when she cries (angry, indignated, acceptance, surrender,
loss...), what does she cries for? Does she cries because of missing lost
family, because she feels guilty, because she fears the same could happen to
the rest of family, to herself?
I understand that it is this the individual state we are after rather than
common symptoms.
Do you agree?
Marta
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear David,

Thanks for answer.
Your reaction has more to do how you feel about Sehgal than my remarks.
I rejected nothing from the Organon.
From what I have written you can't say I'm not a vitalist. or I'm a
Seghalist.
What you say about aph.153 is true, but to add 'the state of disposition' to
the totality is often forgotten.
It is often confused with more objective particular mental or emotional
symptoms, some say when they are intensive and SRP, they have a high value.
Because they are disturbances of the more vital organs. And ofcourse this is
true. But this is not what aph 210 -213 is about.
The state of disposition is a aph. 153 symptom on its own.
This is what I learned via Sehgal, and to treat on the present (the present
always included).

Kind regards, Piet Guijt

> But this is not what aph 210 -213 is about.

Can someone say what is the German word Hn uses for 'disposition' here?

Andrew

At 08:45 PM 11/13/2001 +0100, you wrote:
Dear Piet,

Excuse me but I did NOT say you were not a vitalist. I said the
mistunement of the vital force is the proximate cause of disease in
Hahnemannian Homoeopathy. That is the vitalist view. Causative toxins is a
materia peccans, i.e a material cause of disease.. That is Seghal' view. I
also did not say you were a Seghalist. I said your were using Seghalisms to
define Hahnemann's terms. What you wrote about the SRP vs PPP is not based
on the Organon or Hahnemann's teachings.

I also did not say you have rejected anything form the Organon. I said
what you wrote about the SEUO-SRP symptoms is mistaken. They do NOT lead to
the only to the "constitutional remedy" and one does NOT ignore them to
work with the miasms. One uses the SEUO symptoms in EVERY disease! That is
how one understands the disease state as well as the similar remedy.
Simillimum-Simillimo!
Every well trained homoeopath studies the discernible physical
constitution, *mental and emotion character*, occupation, lifestyle and
habits, civic and domestic relationships, age, and sexuality (aph 5) and
well as the objective signs, coincidental befallments and subjective
symptom of the entire body and soul (aph 6). In this process one records
what the patient presents, what those around them perceive, and what is
observed by the homoeopath. This shows one the Wesen (Esse) of the disease,
the mistuned vital force (aph 7). All this data is what makes up the
Gestalt of the disease. This is the basis of all well taken homoeopathic
cases.
All the aphorisms of the Organon are to be study together because they
all form the "whole picture". Mental symptoms "often [not always] tip the
scales in the selection of the homeopathic remedy" (aph. 211). The SEUO
symptoms can be of the psyche and/or soma. The SEUO characteristic symptoms
relate to every rubric including those of the emotional state (aph 210-213).
One cannot take 211-213 out of context from the other 288 aphorisms of
the text. Aphorism 153 most definitely applies to 210-213. One must still
judge the characteristic value of symptoms of the patient's emotional
state. No one aphorism makes the complete Organon and no one symptom makes
a whole disease state.

My well intentioned advice to study the Organon more closely is
something I say to myself and everyone around me daily. Anyway, I am sure
somebody benefited from my post. Sorry it upset your sensibilities.

Have a good day!
Sincerely, David Little
---------------
"It is the life-force which cures diseases because a dead man needs no more
medicines."

Samuel Hahnemann

Visit our website on Hahnemannian Homoeopathy and Cyberspace Homoeopathic
Academy at
http://www.simillimum.com
David Little © 2000

'Mental' is translated from GEIST (spirit) and 'emotional' is translated
from GEMUET (the emotional mind). O'Reilly/Decker - The Organon of the
Medical Art by Dr. Samuel Hahnemann, p196