Minutus

These are some of the references in the Organon.

The ones with out any numbers are from the introduction.

It is on such examples of domestic practice that Mr. M. Lux founds his
so-called mode of cure by identicals and idem, which he calls Isopathy,
which some eccentric-minded persons have already adopted as the non plus
ultra of a therapeutic method, without knowing how they could carry it out.

So, to give another example from physical action, the injury resulting from
a blow on the forehead with a hard substance (a painful lump) is soon
diminished in pain and swelling by pressing on the spot for a considerable
time with the ball of the thumb strongly at first, and then gradually less
forcibly, homoeopathically but not by an equally hard blow with an equally
hard body, which would increase the evil isopathically.
The examples of cures by isopathy given in the book alluded to - muscular
contractions in human beings and spinal paralysis in a dog, which had been
caused by a chill, being rapidly cured by cold bathing - these events are
falsely explained by isopathy. What are called sufferings from a chill are
only nominally connected with cold, and often arise, in the bodies of those
predisposed to them even from a draught of wind which was not at all cold.
Moreover, the manifold effects of a cold bath on the living organism, in
health and in disease, cannot be reduced to such a simple formula as to
warrant the construction of a system of such pretentions! That
serpents?bites, as is there stated, are most certainly cured by portions of
the serpents, must remain a mere fable of a former age, until such an
improbable assertion is authenticated by indubitable observations and
experience, which it certainly never will be. That, in fine, the saliva of a
mad dog given to a patient laboring under hydrophobia (in Russia), is said
to bave cured him - that 'is said' would not seduce any conscientious
physician to imitate such a hazardous experiment, or to construct a
so-called isopathic system, so dangerous and so highly improbable in its
extended application, as has been done (not by the modest author of the
pamphlet entitled The Isopathy of Contagions, Leipzic: Kollmann, but) by its
eccentric supporters, especially Dr. Gross (v. Alg. hom. Ztg, ii, p. 72),
who vaunts this isopathy (aequalia aequalibus) as the only proper
therapeutic rule, and sees nothing in the similia similibus but an
indifferent substitute for it; ungratefully enough, as he is entirely
indebted to the similia similibus for all his fame and fortune.

FN to aph 55
1 A fourth mode of employing medicines in diseases has been attempted to be
created by means of Isopathy, as it is called - that is to say, a method of
curing a given disease by the same contagious particle that produces it. But
even granting this could be done, which would certainly be a valuable
discovery, yet, after all, seeing that the virus is given to the patient
highly potentized, and thereby, consequently, to a certain degree in an
altered condition, the cure is effected only by opposing a simillimum to a
simillimum.

FN to aph 56
To attempt to cure by means of the very same morbific potency (per Idem)
contradicts all normal human understanding and hence all experience. Those
who first brought Isopathy to notice, probably thought of the benefit which
mankind received from cowpox vaccination by which the vaccinated individual
is protected against future cowpox infection and as it were cured in
advance. But both, cowpox and smallpox are only similar, in no way the same
disease. In many respects they differ, namely in the more rapid course and
mildness of cowpox and especially in this, that is never contagious to man
by more nearness. Universal vaccination put an end to all epidemics of that
deadly fearful smallpox to such an extent that the present generation does
no longer possess a clear conception of the former frightful smallpox
plague.

Moreover, in this way, undoubtedly, certain diseases peculiar to animals may
give us remedies and thus happily enlarge our stock of homoeopathic
remedies.
But to use a human morbific matter (a Psorin taken from the itch in man) as
a remedy for the same itch or for evils arisen therefrom is ---- ?
Nothing can result from this but trouble and aggravation of the disease.

Rgds
Soroush
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Colleagues

As you all know Minutus is primarily for the discussion of Hahnemannian Homeopathy and matters
arising.

In that light, the following are the mentions of Isopathy in the Organon.
From INTRODUCTION
In recent cases of frost-bitten limbs frozen sour crout is applied or frictions of snow are used.*
* It is on such examples of domestic practice that Mr. M. Lux founds his so-called mode of cure by
identicals and idem, which he calls Isopathy, which some eccentric-minded persons have already
adopted as the non plus ultra of a therapeutic method, without knowing how they could carry it out.
======
Thus we find in these examples of successful domestic practice, that it is not the prolonged
application of the degree of cold in which the limb was frozen that restores it isopathically (it
would thereby be rendered quite lifeless and dead), but a degree af cold that only approximates to
that (homœopathy), and which gradually rises to a comfortable temperature, as frozen sour crout laid
upon the frost-bitten hand in the temperature of the room soon melts, gradually growing warmer from
32?33?hr.) to the temperature of the room, supposing that to be only 55?d thus the limb is recovered
by physical homœopathy. In like manner, a hand scalded with boiling water would not be cured
isopathically by the application of boiling water, but only by a somewhat lower temperature, as, for
example, by holding it in a vessel containing a fluid heated to 160?ich becomes every minute less
hot, and finally descends to the temperature of the room, whereupon the scalded part is restored by
homœopathy. Water in the act of freezing cannot draw out the frost isopathically from potatoes and
apples, but this is effected by water only near the freezing-point.
So, to give another example from physical action, the injury resulting from a blow on the forehead
with a hard substance (a painful lump) is soon diminished in pain and swelling by pressing on the
spot for a considerable time with the ball of the thumb strongly at first, and then gradually less
forcibly, homœopathically but not by an equally hard blow with an equally hard body, which would
increase the evil isopathically.
The examples of cures by isopathy given in the book alluded to - muscular contractions in human
beings and spinal paralysis in a dog, which had been caused by a chill, being rapidly cured by cold
bathing - these events are falsely explained by isopathy. What are called sufferings from a chill
are only nominally connected with cold, and often arise, in the bodies of those predisposed to them
even from a draught of wind which was not at all cold. Moreover, the manifold effects of a cold bath
on the living organism, in health and in disease, cannot be reduced to such a simple formula as to
warrant the construction of a system of such pretentions! That serpentsՠbites, as is there stated,
are most certainly cured by portions of the serpents, must remain a mere fable of a former age,
until such an improbable assertion is authenticated by indubitable observations and experience,
which it certainly never will be. That, in fine, the saliva of a mad dog given to a patient laboring
under hydrophobia (in Russia), is said to bave cured him - that 'is said' would not seduce any
conscientious physician to imitate such a hazardous experiment, or to construct a so-called
isopathic system, so dangerous and so highly improbable in its extended application, as has been
done (not by the modest author of the pamphlet entitled The Isopathy of Contagions, Leipzic:
Kollmann, but) by its eccentric supporters, especially Dr. Gross (v. Alg. hom. Ztg, ii, p. 72), who
vaunts this isopathy (aequalia aequalibus) as the only proper therapeutic rule, and sees nothing in
the similia similibus but an indifferent substitute for it; ungratefully enough, as he is entirely
indebted to the similia similibus for all his fame and fortune.
The experienced cook holds his hand, which he has scalded, at a certain distance from the fire, and
does not heed the increase of pain that takes place at first, as he knows from experience that he
can thereby in a very short time, often in a few minutes, convert the burnt part into healthy
painless skin.*
=====

§ 56 Sixth Edition
By means of this palliative (antipathic, enantiopathic) method, introduced according to Galen’s
teaching "Contraria contrariis" for seventeen centuries, the physicians hitherto could hope to win
confidence while they deluded with almost instantaneous amelioration. But how fundamentally
unhelpful and hurtful this method of treatment is (in diseases not running a rapid course) we shall
see in what follows. It is certainly the only one of the modes of treatment adopted by the allopaths
that had any manifest relation to a portion of the sufferings caused by the natural disease; but
what kind of relation? Of a truth the very one (the exact contrary of the right one) that ought
carefully to be avoided if we would not delude and make a mockery of the patient affected with a
chronic disease1.
1 A third mode of employing medicines in diseases has been attempted to be created by means of
Isopathy, as it is called - that is to say, a method of curing a given disease by the same
contagious principle that produces it. But even granting this could be done, yet, after all, seeing
that the virus is given to the patient highly potentized, and consequently, in an altered condition,
the cure is effected only by opposing a simillimum to a simillimum.

To attempt to cure by means of the very same morbific potency (per Idem) contradicts all normal
human understanding and hence all experience. Those who first brought Isopathy to notice, probably
thought of the benefit which mankind received from cowpox vaccination by which the vaccinated
individual is protected against future cowpox infection and as it were cured in advance. But both,
cowpox and smallpox are only similar, in no way the same disease. In many respects they differ,
namely in the more rapid course and mildness of cowpox and especially in this, that is never
contagious to man by more nearness. Universal vaccination put an end to all epidemics of that deadly
fearful smallpox to such an extent that the present generation does no longer possess a clear
conception of the former frightful smallpox plague.

Moreover, in this way, undoubtedly, certain diseases peculiar to animals may give us remedies and
thus happily enlarge our stock of homœopathic remedies.
But to use a human morbific matter (a Psorin taken from the itch in man) as a remedy for the same
itch or for evils arisen therefrom is ---- ?
Nothing can result from this but trouble and aggravation of the disease.

Best Regards
Soroush

So, re-stating points from the below:
- Once the isode/nosode is potentized, it because a homeopathic
remedy, "if properly used."
- Proper use depends on symptom similarity, which in the case of an
isode/nosode can be determined in part by noting that the patient
displays symptoms of the "disease" from which the nosode comes, or the
symptom picture which the substance (e.g. vaccine) can cause.

So... What's the problem with using the isodes/nosodes as we have been
discussing?
In what way have those practices not conformed to the above?

sx similarity from proving - we still have to mention that? It is written in the text I posted as well, why do you have such a problem with this.

Anyone who claims to be practising homeopathy and who cannot be bothered to take the full case, spend time repertorising and studying rx to find the simillimum, i.e. those who irresponsibly choose to jump straight to isopathy is treating their clients as dreadful 'guinea pigs' and have no right to do so.

To guess at a rx, with no matching of sx similarity (through proving) is nothing short of dangerous but it is good to know who practice like this so others can avoid them at all costs.

Isopathy isn't homeopathy.

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://www.streetcollege.co.uk

Dear Joy
That was an excellent article.
In terms of proving, I requote from your article:
Dr. Swan, who proved Medorrhimun, was once asked if it was legitimate to use nosodes against diseases when they were not proven homoeopathically. His answer to this question was that "since the symptoms of the infectious miasms have been observed in so many individuals they represent a natural proving".
So if we know the MMR vaccine causes autism, then this is a natural proving for MMR vaccine and therefore it could be argued that it could be used homeopathicly to treat the resulting autism after MMR vaccination.
Perhaps this is why Dr Smit and Dr Joe are reporting successes by using the potentised vaccine that caused the problem.
I look forward to your comments.
Soroush

Swan was referring to infectious miasms - you and the 'others' keep referring to the use of potentised vaccines.

I ask you, what are the anomalies, surely you can see them.

And are you suggesting we all now give isopathy because if it works then it works and we do not need homeopathy, we only ever need give isopathy, hooray.

By the way not my article, it was from David Little.

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://www.streetcollege.co.uk

1. will not potentiation makes it a Homoeopathic preparation?
2. when "it" is prescribed on "symptom similarity", should that be still called "Isopathic"?
3. H.C.Allen's Key notes, under Mercurius, Relations, "The bad effects of Mer are antidoted by......a strong potency of Mer, when the symptoms correspond. Is not many such examples are abundant in literature

________________________________

From: Joy Lucas
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, October 27, 2010 8:08:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Minutus] ISOPATHY
Swan was referring to infectious miasms - you and the 'others' keep referring to the use of potentised vaccines.
I ask you, what are the anomalies, surely you can see them.

And are you suggesting we all now give isopathy because if it works then it works and we do not need homeopathy, we only ever need give isopathy, hooray.

By the way not my article, it was from David Little.

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://www.streetcollege.co.uk

Sorry, I should have also included that. Note the section after the
sentence you highlighted below:
In the examples we've been speaking of, it *is* being used for the same
condition it causes.

However, further, I'll re-repeat what Soroush quoted: "Dr. Swan, who
proved Medorrhimun, was once asked if it was legitimate to use nosodes
against diseases when they were not proven homoeopathically. His answer
to this question was that "since the symptoms of the infectious miasms
have been observed in so many individuals they represent a natural
proving"."

Shannon

1) Why do you feel that morbific material in the form of an
"infectious agent" (assuming one "believes in" infection, which some
here do not--and I am not among that group) should behave in a
fundamentally different way, in this regard, from morbific material
from a shot or a poisoning, etc.? Yes "infectious agents" multiply in
the body, and so present additional challenges to the body. But why
would issues of isode / similar /simillimum be any different?

2) Why do you so love to jump from the particular (apparent successes
using isodes in particular circumstances) to the universal (therefor
"we all now give isopathy because ... we do not need homeopathy..."
etc. No one but you has ever, on this list, said any such thing. It's
your bogeyman, not anything that is actually being presented. And you
know that, so why not stick to the actual discussion...

Shannon

Answer to point 1
A potentised substance is just that - a potentised substance.

It only becomes homeopathic if it is prescribed on the basis of symptom similarity and if shown to have worked.

So in reality, it is not 'homeopathic' until it has proved itself to be!
I leave the rest to other colleagues (esp Joy to answer!)
Rgds

Soroush
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of srinivasan venkatesan
Sent: 27 October 2010 15:50
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] ISOPATHY
1. will not potentiation makes it a Homoeopathic preparation?

2. when "it" is prescribed on "symptom similarity", should that be still called "Isopathic"?

3. H.C.Allen's Key notes, under Mercurius, Relations, "The bad effects of Mer are antidoted by......a strong potency of Mer, when the symptoms correspond. Is not many such examples are abundant in literature
________________________________

From: Joy Lucas
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, October 27, 2010 8:08:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Minutus] ISOPATHY
Swan was referring to infectious miasms - you and the 'others' keep referring to the use of potentised vaccines.
I ask you, what are the anomalies, surely you can see them.
And are you suggesting we all now give isopathy because if it works then it works and we do not need homeopathy, we only ever need give isopathy, hooray.
By the way not my article, it was from David Little.
Joy
http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com

http://www.streetcollege.co.uk
Dear Joy
That was an excellent article.
In terms of proving, I requote from your article:
Dr. Swan, who proved Medorrhimun, was once asked if it was legitimate to use nosodes against diseases when they were not proven homoeopathically. His answer to this question was that "since the symptoms of the infectious miasms have been observed in so many individuals they represent a natural proving".
So if we know the MMR vaccine causes autism, then this is a natural proving for MMR vaccine and therefore it could be argued that it could be used homeopathicly to treat the resulting autism after MMR vaccination.
Perhaps this is why Dr Smit and Dr Joe are reporting successes by using the potentised vaccine that caused the problem.
I look forward to your comments.
Soroush
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