Minutus

Dear Beverly, these are my thoughts about your case.

Rubrics:- (using Kent)

Conscientious

Fear - being alone
Anxiety - about health
Despair - recovery

Respiration - asthmatic - in wet weather
Respiration - asthmatic - hay asthma
Respiration - asthmatic - change in weather

Nose - coldness inside nose (an unusual and high ranking Sx to me)

Chest - oppression - when weather changes to cold
Chest - oppression - damp
Chest - oppression - sternum

Cough - night - waking from
Cough - sleep - wakens from

Chest - coldness

Face - swelling - oedematous - one sided - around eye

Generalities - swelling - glands
A number of Rx began to come through and I starting making notes about
AMMONIUM CARBONICUM and DULCAMARA but for me this is an ARSENICUM ALBUM
case.

They are extremely conscientious making them work very hard at all they do.
They can become worn out and weak from overwork. They like to be looked
after and be made to feel safe. Fear and terror (about all sorts of things)
play a big part in their lives. The asthmatic characteristics are well
known.

It would be interesting to hear other peoples points of view. Personally I
would have preferred even more information especially regards modalities,
type of cough, what > the breathing, is this a NBWS overwork?, who prominent
is the "feeling of cold air in nose"?, the symptoms around the stools could
just be diet but a bit more elaboration would be useful. Also in presenting
a case I think the heirarchy of Sx needs to be considered.

This might be a good time to discuss potency.....

For me potency is as important almost as the choice of remedy and is highly
individualised according to the clients state of health. Guiding lines for
me have always been the extent of the pathology (either physical, mental or
emotional) and the general energy levels of the person. I think I would be
tempted to use 12c TDS for 1 or 2 weeks.

I look forward to any feedback.

Best wishes, Joy Lucas RSHom.

I also thought about Arsenic and have not had much time to rep this case
but, I would say that because she has no history of a personal support
system, I might see this as a factor against Ars. Prolonged or excessive
responsibility and/or a history of family troubles makes me think of Aurum
and possibly, Carcinosin. The tendency to allergies and the desire to travel
are also Carc indicators. When one considers the financial undertones of the
case - always struggling, never being financially stable, one must also
think of Aurum = gold = money. I might consider Aur, Carc in addition to
Ars. Some rubrics:

Cough; BREATHING (K783, G665) (92) : acon., adam., aesc., am-c., am-m.,
apis, arg-n., arn., ars., arum-d., asar., aur., aur-m., bell., bism., brom.,
bry., calc., carb-an., chin., chin-ar., cina, coc-c., cocc., coloc., con.,
cor-r., croc., crot-h., cupr., cur., dig., dros., dulc., euphr., ferr.,
ferr-ar., ferr-p., germ., graph., guai., hep., ign., iod., ip., kali-ar.,
kali-bi., kali-c., kali-chl., kali-n., kali-p., lac-c., lach., lec., lyc.,
mag-m., mang., meny., merc., mez., mur-ac., naja, nat-ar., nat-m., nit-ac.,
nux-v., olnd., op., ozone, ph-ac., phos., plb., puls., rhus-t., rumx.,
sabad., samb., scroph-n., seneg., sep., serp., sil., spig., squil., stann.,
stict., stram., sulph., verat., verb., zinc., ziz.
cough 2-3 AM (8) : am-c., ant-t., ars., kali-bi., kali-c., mangi., merc.,
syc-co.
Abdomen; BOENNINGHAUSEN; inguinal region; ileo-cecal region (14) : ars.,
bapt., bell., bry., coloc., ferr-p., mag-c., merc., nux-v., op., Rhus-t.,
sep., sul-i., sulph.
Chest; SWELLING; general; lymphatic tissue; axillary (K880, G743) (67) :
aesc., aeth., alum-sil., am-c., Am-m., anan., anthr., ars., ars-i., aster.,
aur., aur-i., aur-s., Bar-c., bar-i., bar-s., bell., brom., cadm-s., calc.,
cand-a., carb-an., carc., clem., coloc., con., corv-c., crot-h., goss.,
Hep., iod., kali-bi., Kali-c., kali-p., kali-sil., lac-ac., lac-c., Lach.,
lappa, lyc., Merc., merc-i-r., nat-c., nat-m., nat-s., nat-sil., Nit-ac.,
ozone, petr., ph-ac., Phos., phyt., puls., rhus-t., sep., Sil., staph.,
stront-c., sul-ac., sul-i., sulph., syc-co., tanac., tarent., tell., vesp.,
wild.
Mind; RESPONSIBILITY; strong (22) : aur., aur-ar., bamb-a., borag., calc.,
carc., cocc., cupr., cycl., helod-c., ign., kali-c., lac-eq., lac-leo.,
lil-t., lyc., mag-m., nat-ar., nat-m., nat-s., puls., stront-c.
Mind; AVERSION; family members, to (K9, SRI-104, G8) (25) : am-c., am-m.,
aran., aur., calc., calc-s., cit-ac., con., crot-h., fl-ac., haliae-lc.,
hep., iod., kali-c., kali-p., kola., lyc., merc., nat-c., nat-m., phos.,
plat., plb., senec., sep.
Allen

travel

what relative weighting would you give these psychological traits in terms
of repertorizing,in comparison with the chest complaints?

Andrew

If this were my case I would be asking.....

Do you cry and what makes you cry and how do you feel afterwards

How do you feel about being with a lot of people

What is your social life like

How do you respond to rudeness or if people are having an argument

What is your idea of love

Do you need a lot of friends, do you make friends easily

What makes you angry and how do you show your anger

And on and on... we still need to know more about this person

The menstrual cycle
birth of child
Foods +++ and ---
weather likes and dislikes
are they hot or cold

It seems to me that this person has lost love profoundly but this is not at
the top of the case. Perhaps it is too soon for all this to come out - maybe
it is a layered case and that the chest/asthma etc needs attending to
primarily. This is still using the totality, but it is the totality of the
present and I suspect that there is more to come.

My understanding now is that they are kind, sympathetic, wary and
mistrustful of who they make friends with now because of the past. There is
a great desire to please and caring of others (putting others first)

The Ammoniums, they are the LOVE / HEART remedies. But there are so many
others. I am still tempted with Arsenicum Album, possibly ammon. mur
(especially if she cannot cry). The so called protective shell makes you
think of the Calcareas. etc. etc.

I think many of us can see why Puls. Carc. Sil. have been prescribed - what
were the reactions from these?

What area does this person live in, what is the environment like.

Most of all - does anyone else have some ideas to put forward?

Best wishes, Joy Lucas

Okay
patient has told me that she used to cry a lot. Her words 'spent half my
life crying'. Does not feel need to cry more than on rare occasions now and
then tears are only shortlived. Not a deep venting.
Patient has schooled herself to get used to being with a lot of people.
Says she has tried to push the boundaries of the things she has felt were
enchaining her in life. Says she now feels reasonably comfortable with a
large number of people 'as long as I know someone there', but I sense she
does not easily feel part of what is going on and she has told me that
although she craves to belong and wants company she still likes to be on her
own. Possibly because she has had to adapt from being put in that position
much of her life.
Apparently minimal but being carefully built. As she trusts new people she
draws them closer to her and she seems to be popular with these people.

She has done a lot of work on learning assertiveness skills and says she now
says what she needs to rather than holding her feelings in if the situation
involves her. Will not be 'a pleaser' any more. Seems mostly to be able to
get her point across nicely and still meet her needs but will not keep back
something that needs to be said just to 'be nice'. This has caused problems
with some remainig members of family of origin who finding fault and have a
pattern of control into which she refuses to buy any longer.

Patient is very romantic. Sees love as a sharing but wants someone to take
care of her. I think she would still be inclined to be easily submissive in
a personal relationship. Attracted to persons of nationalities who do not
live in her area and of high intellect [similar to father intellectually]
and they are attracted to her but there seems to be no practical way to make
these relationships work logistically. Seems to want something she may not
possibly be able to have - to deprive herself because she is unworthy??? But
then has never been attracted to her own nationality. Thought of nat mur. 30
c gives violent headache and much maybe does not fit.

Patient has intimated that she has never made friends easily up until
recently. Has always felt 'different' to everyone. I feel Carc has helped
here especially. Different interests to many other women in her area etc.
She has now tried to identify similarities to build on with other women and
she says this is working well. Wants to belong. Attracted to national groups
who show lots of hospitality.

Dislikes injustice and hypocrisy. Likes to be on the side of the underdog.
Patient will say they feel angry and why and then find a practical solution
to the problem but says rarely loses control or feels anger inside. Only if
others yell or disparage or are overtly disrespectful she will not tolerate
it and says so. A couple of times in extreme situation she has thrown
something. She was given staph for this and says has not felt like that
since.
28 days, pre menopausal age but no symptoms

apparently long labour, 20ish hours, child cried from birth for months.
Colic etc but mother feels there was great distress from baby hearing father
screaming for months prior to birth and then after.
Mother wanted child and has always felt the child gives her purpose to go
on.

History of allergies from time of being very ill. Carcinosin seems to have
lessened this but has stayed on very healthy low allergen diet. Loves
vegetables/salads.
depressed [slight] in windy weather. Feels it is foreboding. Cannot control
possible consequences [like a raging sea]. Used to be terrified on
thunderstorms. Phos fitted at the time with other symptoms also and now
storms do not worry here. Dislikes extreme cold. Needs sunshine i.e. spring
as it 'gives hope'
Doesn't seem to be either but patient does not perspire very much.
at
maybe
is

Absolutely
what

Puls seemed to 'lighten things' used when in a state of depression.

Sil was used to help drive any mucous etc out from bronchi and also to
attempt to drain lump on eyelid. Helped a little

Likes environment. Earth and sky and sea. Sunshine and water [looking at
ocean] give hope.

subject of 'Digest' to ashahrdar@yahoo.com to receive a single daily digest.

yes. Let's look at the consequences of your approach of taking this case
along the so-called wholistic [ie psychological] lines. you have suggested
Ars, Amm-mur, Calc.; and that Puls, Sil, carc were also close; someone else
along similar kind of thinking suggested Ars, Carc, Aur.

she has asthma, so let's look at how she has struggled with money over the
years.

i don't deny this can work, just that most of the time it doesn't. How far
into the forest of psychological constructs will you go? as the further you
go, the more remedy candidates you will find. when a method can cough up
so many disparate, unsimilar remedies, all of which are apparently similar
to the disease, is this method, or madness?

Andrew

I have refused to comment on the remedy because I do NOT believe that we
have the full picture of the disease presented to us.

Better case details pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease?????????

Soroush

I'm sorry, but at this stage I think you know more about the person and
their life than they do themselves. I would not normally take so many things
into account. I'm sure you are a much more experienced homeopath than I but
there appears to be no more information to give. The patient is aware that
we are discussing her case and wishes no more information to be given. She
says there isn't any anyway.

I will repost below the information posted to the list yesterdy in response
to JOy, which I did not see appear and leave it to the list. If there are
anymore suggestions I would appreciate them, if not thankyou all for giving
the case your attention

Beverly Shamon-Turner

yesterday**************

Okay
patient has told me that she used to cry a lot. Her words 'spent half my
life crying'. Does not feel need to cry more than on rare occasions now and
then tears are only shortlived. Not a deep venting.
Patient has schooled herself to get used to being with a lot of people.
Says she has tried to push the boundaries of the things she has felt were
enchaining her in life. Says she now feels reasonably comfortable with a
large number of people 'as long as I know someone there', but I sense she
does not easily feel part of what is going on and she has told me that
although she craves to belong and wants company she still likes to be on her
own. Possibly because she has had to adapt from being put in that position
much of her life.
Apparently minimal but being carefully built. As she trusts new people she
draws them closer to her and she seems to be popular with these people.

She has done a lot of work on learning assertiveness skills and says she now
says what she needs to rather than holding her feelings in if the situation
involves her. Will not be 'a pleaser' any more. Seems mostly to be able to
get her point across nicely and still meet her needs but will not keep back
something that needs to be said just to 'be nice'. This has caused problems
with some remainig members of family of origin who finding fault and have a
pattern of control into which she refuses to buy any longer.

Patient is very romantic. Sees love as a sharing but wants someone to take
care of her. I think she would still be inclined to be easily submissive in
a personal relationship. Attracted to persons of nationalities who do not
live in her area and of high intellect [similar to father intellectually]
and they are attracted to her but there seems to be no practical way to make
these relationships work logistically. Seems to want something she may not
possibly be able to have - to deprive herself because she is unworthy??? But
then has never been attracted to her own nationality. Thought of nat mur. 30
c gives violent headache and much maybe does not fit.

Patient has intimated that she has never made friends easily up until
recently. Has always felt 'different' to everyone. I feel Carc has helped
here especially. Different interests to many other women in her area etc.
She has now tried to identify similarities to build on with other women and
she says this is working well. Wants to belong. Attracted to national groups
who show lots of hospitality.

Dislikes injustice and hypocrisy. Likes to be on the side of the underdog.
Patient will say they feel angry and why and then find a practical solution
to the problem but says rarely loses control or feels anger inside. Only if
others yell or disparage or are overtly disrespectful she will not tolerate
it and says so. A couple of times in extreme situation she has thrown
something. She was given staph for this and says has not felt like that
since.
28 days, pre menopausal age but no symptoms

apparently long labour, 20ish hours, child cried from birth for months.
Colic etc but mother feels there was great distress from baby hearing father
screaming for months prior to birth and then after.
Mother wanted child and has always felt the child gives her purpose to go
on.

History of allergies from time of being very ill. Carcinosin seems to have
lessened this but has stayed on very healthy low allergen diet. Loves
vegetables/salads.
depressed [slight] in windy weather. Feels it is foreboding. Cannot control
possible consequences [like a raging sea]. Used to be terrified on
thunderstorms. Phos fitted at the time with other symptoms also and now
storms do not worry here. Dislikes extreme cold. Needs sunshine i.e. spring
as it 'gives hope'
Doesn't seem to be either but patient does not perspire very much.
at
maybe
is

Absolutely
what

Puls seemed to 'lighten things' used when in a state of depression.

Sil was used to help drive any mucous etc out from bronchi and also to
attempt to drain lump on eyelid. Helped a little

Likes environment. Earth and sky and sea. Sunshine and water [looking at
ocean] give hope.

> I have refused to comment on the remedy because I do NOT believe that we

This is one way of approaching things. There is another.

When I was in 4th year at college I hit a brick wall with regard to
case-taking. We were being schooled in the manner of case-taking that
encouraged us to pursue the "centre of the case" at all costs. I became more
and more uncomfortable with this. I didn't feel I had any right to go
pushing my way into a patient's depths uninvited, even supposing they had
the habit of introspection necessary to articulate such things. I went
through a complete crisis of confidence - if this was the way homeopathy was
supposed to be practiced, then I patently couldn't do it.

I talked to tutors and got told not to worry as I was doing fine
academically, and everyone hits a wall in their 3rd/4th years, and ...
basically, they nudged me into the realisation that this was my problem and
I was the one who had to face it directly if I was going to solve it. After
a lot of thought, I came to the decision that it was my job to perceive the
remedy *no matter what the patient chose to talk about*. As soon as I
realised this, my concerns about not being able to do homeopathy melted away
(well, temporarily at least !). It was just a matter of perception.

At the time I was reading a book which conceptualised the universe as
fundamentally holographic, and it was this that tipped me in the direction
of the solution. The remedy is there in everything the person says and does.
It is simply up to us to perceive it.

This is a wonderfully liberating thing to contemplate. It means that we are
not dependent on the patient effectively having to solve the case for us by
virtue of conforming to a narrowly-defined concept of what constitutes
"useable information". This is the trap we see our allopathic colleagues
forever caught in (and it's this that possibly blinds us to the occasions
when we fall into it ourselves). If ALL information is useable - which it
has to be if we're taking a truly wholistic perspective - then we no longer
need question whether or not we "have a case". Instead the question should
be: we have a case, but can we see it?

Regards
Wendy

Beverly,

You have a lot characteristics of the patient, but you have to find out
which 'state' she is in right now, when the rest of these symptoms are also
covered by the found remedy, you're lucky.
In other words you have to know the symptoms which have a direct connection
to the current most trouble causing complaints. ( find the dominating
miasm).

I think the key lies here:

"Patient said something along the lines of 'wonders how long
they can go on'. Seems to be finding the years of stress and 'swimming
against the tide' overwhelming to the point where their love for a challenge
is being overcome by the daily grind of just putting one foot after the
other to go on"

This is something on how she experiences her disease.
She finds herself 'stuck' in a no-exit situation.
This asks for a main Sycotic remedy.

A-grade, Sycosis:
Arsenicum album, Arsenicum iodatum, Argentum metallicum, Argentum nitricum,
Kalium iodatum, Kalium sulphuricum, Lycopodium, Medorrhinum, Mezereum,
Natrium muriaticum, Natrium sulpuricum, Niticum acidum, Psorinum, Pyrogen,
Radium, Ranunculus bulbosus, Sarsaparilla, Sepia, Silicea, Staphysagria,
Tarentula hispanica, Thuja.

Ofcourse this list is not complete.

some usefull symptoms:
Very intuitive
Cut of emotional feelings to survive
Responsibility problems
Night person

When reading through the case, I suggest you take a close look at
Medorrhinum.

goodluck,

Piet Guijt