Jonathon Shore once gave a beautiful presentation in Sydney.
What I remember was the excess of the state. Could be too sensitive or too
cruel. Early sexual energy, night energy, sleeping on tummy. From
somewhere I associate it with lack of boundaries, oranges but mostly the
theme of excess a side of which Vioral has described.
I have always imagined them with Mediterranean appearance ,brown eyes,
eyebrows meeting in middle. I thought pale blue eyes and mindless cruelty
mostly Hyoscyamus. Interested in Vioral¹ description. Jean.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Medorrhinum
Re: Medorrhinum
In einer eMail vom 03.07.04 01:19:02 (MEZ) Mitteleuropäische Zeit schreibt
clelly@tpg.com.au:
>
4.7.4.
Yes, "lack of boundaries" was very good, very representative from the
semantic point of view. Thank you very much. Kind regards,
Dr.medic.Viorel V. Bucur (www.dr-bucur.com).
clelly@tpg.com.au:
>
4.7.4.
Yes, "lack of boundaries" was very good, very representative from the
semantic point of view. Thank you very much. Kind regards,
Dr.medic.Viorel V. Bucur (www.dr-bucur.com).
-
Julian Winston
- Posts: 622
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: Medorrhinum
At 2:40 AM +0000 7/9/04, hahnemannian2002 wrote:
Indeed
Somehow, I missed this.
From PERSONAL experience I can say that the Remedy that has had the
most profound effect upon me was Lachesis-- not based on "pictures"
but upon a very complete repertorization. That remedy changed my life.
And, most recently, after a severe flu which left me with an almost
disabling cough, the remedy which cured (again through repertorial
analysis) was Sepia.
My personal sense is that using "pictures" is often interesting, but
can lead one far astray from the remedy needed. Forget if you are
treating a male or female. Get all that garbage about "are they
animal, plant, or mineral" out of your mind.
Look at the characteristic symptoms of the case and find the remedy.
Become the "unprejudiced observer."
JW
(male, last time I looked)
Indeed
Somehow, I missed this.
From PERSONAL experience I can say that the Remedy that has had the
most profound effect upon me was Lachesis-- not based on "pictures"
but upon a very complete repertorization. That remedy changed my life.
And, most recently, after a severe flu which left me with an almost
disabling cough, the remedy which cured (again through repertorial
analysis) was Sepia.
My personal sense is that using "pictures" is often interesting, but
can lead one far astray from the remedy needed. Forget if you are
treating a male or female. Get all that garbage about "are they
animal, plant, or mineral" out of your mind.
Look at the characteristic symptoms of the case and find the remedy.
Become the "unprejudiced observer."
JW
(male, last time I looked)
-
Ellen Madono
- Posts: 2012
- Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:00 pm
Re: Medorrhinum
Dear Julian,
I hear you about doing the reperoization first and agree, but I was looking today at what Roger Morrison had to say about Medorrhinum (Desktop Guide). He said Med. had a poor representation in the reperatories. I see that it's a remedy of extremes so the pictures are extreme opposites. I was trying to figure out a child's case study where the world was too big and scary (Herscu lecture case)... Extremely sensitive reaction to shock. If I were doing the case, the reperatorization is essential, but if I did not know that child's picture, I might miss it even so. Are there not remedies which more than others require some visualization of stages of illness and polar types to even pull them out of the long list of possibilities after the reperatorization? I know a naive student question, nevertheless.
Blessings,
Ellen Madono
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I hear you about doing the reperoization first and agree, but I was looking today at what Roger Morrison had to say about Medorrhinum (Desktop Guide). He said Med. had a poor representation in the reperatories. I see that it's a remedy of extremes so the pictures are extreme opposites. I was trying to figure out a child's case study where the world was too big and scary (Herscu lecture case)... Extremely sensitive reaction to shock. If I were doing the case, the reperatorization is essential, but if I did not know that child's picture, I might miss it even so. Are there not remedies which more than others require some visualization of stages of illness and polar types to even pull them out of the long list of possibilities after the reperatorization? I know a naive student question, nevertheless.
Blessings,
Ellen Madono
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Julian Winston
- Posts: 622
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: Medorrhinum
At 11:27 AM -0400 7/9/04, Ellen Madono wrote:
There are times when you go with what you got. There ARE remedies
which are poorly represented in the repertories. Lachesis and Sepia
are NOT among those. What I was most concerned with was a
generalization that Lachesis is a "female remedy" and, therefore,
with THAT view might not be given to a male where it would be really
useful.
ALL remedies are of possible use in ALL people. Making such
generalizations simply narrows your choices unnecessarily.
JW
There are times when you go with what you got. There ARE remedies
which are poorly represented in the repertories. Lachesis and Sepia
are NOT among those. What I was most concerned with was a
generalization that Lachesis is a "female remedy" and, therefore,
with THAT view might not be given to a male where it would be really
useful.
ALL remedies are of possible use in ALL people. Making such
generalizations simply narrows your choices unnecessarily.
JW
-
muthu kumar
- Posts: 1208
- Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 10:00 pm
Re: Medorrhinum
Dear Julian
Thanks for your comments. I agree with you whole heartedly when you
said- throw all this garbage about animal, plant and mineral
classifications.
Over all I see that there is too much classifying and too much
theorizing in current homeopathy. When gurus and guides abound they
look for some marketable specialty - some way of standing out from
others so that their seminars would attract people. Thus they bring
out their own unique approach and call it homeopathy. There is also a
lot of discussion of themes and this is what is giving rise to so
much non-sense. Themes may be used for confirming a selection but not
for primary selection. When one thinks in terms of themes one needs
to generalize.
And there is so much absurdity due to this.
Let me demonstrate.
Divya Chhabra's interview about Lac Felinum ( by Neil Tessler) is a
case in point. She decided that the central theme of the milk
is "prostitute" and goes on to say how the cat is the only animal
that domesticated itself and this is like prostituting oneself and so
it has an inner conflict. Is this what homeopathy has become? Does
this mean that instead of Lac Felinum - the milk - if we potentize
the muscle or blood or hair or grind up a whole cat and get a drug
out of it we will still get the central theme of "Prostitute"?
Obviously we should - right? But that never is the case. We all know
that even in plants the roots may have different actions than the
stems etc. There is so much evidence that different parts of the same
thing can have different effects that such cat prostitution claims
are laughable to say the least.
Rajan Sankaran in his "Substance of Homeopathy" talks about Thallium.
Since there are no clear cut mental symptoms for Thallium, he takes
the neuralgic pains of Thallium and because these are violent goes on
explaining the coped up and decompensated sides from the sense of
being attacked and attacking in return and so is like a general
leading a war effort...etc. Come on - give me a break. I feel ashamed
that stuff like this gets called as Classical Homeopathy. His
writings on Naja provings in the same book show the kind of reasoning
that goes totally against what I have understood as Homeopathy. To
quote-
"The specific quality of each species of snake seems to come in part
from the country it is indigenous to e.g.Lach which comes from South
America where people are extroverted, expressive, communicative and
have a strong ego- Lach has these qualities, whereas Naja comes from
India where people are subdued, suppressed and wronged and yet are
known to be spiritual, responsible and duty conscious." He not only
generalizes (racial profiling?) cultures and "humanizes" snakes but
uses that to justify his explanations of Snake venoms. Where is the
end?
Provings are not one-sided- Provings are a product of the substance
that is proved AND the prover. It is a record of an interaction.
Whereas here he discusses as if Lachesis or Naja have these
characteristics by themselves. What about prover characteristics?
Moreover what happens if a subdued Indian makes a Lachesis proving
and an extrovert South American takes Naja? What kind of provings
would we get?
Regarding Ellen's question about Medorrhinum - I am not against
remembering and using some one else's experience to prescribe. May be
at times we need to generalize- just a little bit but with a clear
understanding of what we are doing. This is like driving 10 miles
above the speed limits. We must be aware of what we are doing;
Boenninghausen completed his symptoms by analogy. But there is
certainly a limit to this as Hering felt. You cannot say having an
extra head is similar to having an extra finger even though both are
extra growths. Analogy must be used with limited acceptance and with
a touch of caution. Adding more symptoms from clinical observation is
needed; but the best way to do that is - give the remedy based on
known symptoms and then look for symptoms that disappeared even
though they are not part of the drug's known symptomatology. If a
remedy removes a higher level(mental, general etc) symptom than what
it was prescribed on - the better it is. Now we can grow our Materia
Medica without so much guess work.
Instead of running after each new remedy that comes in the horizon
esp. from the Guess-work masters we would be better off sticking to a
few hundred well known medicines - which were proved by the real
masters with real patients with real problems. There is so much gold
in those old hills- the old writings and journals.
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Julian Winston wrote:
was
pictures
case)...
really
Thanks for your comments. I agree with you whole heartedly when you
said- throw all this garbage about animal, plant and mineral
classifications.
Over all I see that there is too much classifying and too much
theorizing in current homeopathy. When gurus and guides abound they
look for some marketable specialty - some way of standing out from
others so that their seminars would attract people. Thus they bring
out their own unique approach and call it homeopathy. There is also a
lot of discussion of themes and this is what is giving rise to so
much non-sense. Themes may be used for confirming a selection but not
for primary selection. When one thinks in terms of themes one needs
to generalize.
And there is so much absurdity due to this.
Let me demonstrate.
Divya Chhabra's interview about Lac Felinum ( by Neil Tessler) is a
case in point. She decided that the central theme of the milk
is "prostitute" and goes on to say how the cat is the only animal
that domesticated itself and this is like prostituting oneself and so
it has an inner conflict. Is this what homeopathy has become? Does
this mean that instead of Lac Felinum - the milk - if we potentize
the muscle or blood or hair or grind up a whole cat and get a drug
out of it we will still get the central theme of "Prostitute"?
Obviously we should - right? But that never is the case. We all know
that even in plants the roots may have different actions than the
stems etc. There is so much evidence that different parts of the same
thing can have different effects that such cat prostitution claims
are laughable to say the least.
Rajan Sankaran in his "Substance of Homeopathy" talks about Thallium.
Since there are no clear cut mental symptoms for Thallium, he takes
the neuralgic pains of Thallium and because these are violent goes on
explaining the coped up and decompensated sides from the sense of
being attacked and attacking in return and so is like a general
leading a war effort...etc. Come on - give me a break. I feel ashamed
that stuff like this gets called as Classical Homeopathy. His
writings on Naja provings in the same book show the kind of reasoning
that goes totally against what I have understood as Homeopathy. To
quote-
"The specific quality of each species of snake seems to come in part
from the country it is indigenous to e.g.Lach which comes from South
America where people are extroverted, expressive, communicative and
have a strong ego- Lach has these qualities, whereas Naja comes from
India where people are subdued, suppressed and wronged and yet are
known to be spiritual, responsible and duty conscious." He not only
generalizes (racial profiling?) cultures and "humanizes" snakes but
uses that to justify his explanations of Snake venoms. Where is the
end?
Provings are not one-sided- Provings are a product of the substance
that is proved AND the prover. It is a record of an interaction.
Whereas here he discusses as if Lachesis or Naja have these
characteristics by themselves. What about prover characteristics?
Moreover what happens if a subdued Indian makes a Lachesis proving
and an extrovert South American takes Naja? What kind of provings
would we get?
Regarding Ellen's question about Medorrhinum - I am not against
remembering and using some one else's experience to prescribe. May be
at times we need to generalize- just a little bit but with a clear
understanding of what we are doing. This is like driving 10 miles
above the speed limits. We must be aware of what we are doing;
Boenninghausen completed his symptoms by analogy. But there is
certainly a limit to this as Hering felt. You cannot say having an
extra head is similar to having an extra finger even though both are
extra growths. Analogy must be used with limited acceptance and with
a touch of caution. Adding more symptoms from clinical observation is
needed; but the best way to do that is - give the remedy based on
known symptoms and then look for symptoms that disappeared even
though they are not part of the drug's known symptomatology. If a
remedy removes a higher level(mental, general etc) symptom than what
it was prescribed on - the better it is. Now we can grow our Materia
Medica without so much guess work.
Instead of running after each new remedy that comes in the horizon
esp. from the Guess-work masters we would be better off sticking to a
few hundred well known medicines - which were proved by the real
masters with real patients with real problems. There is so much gold
in those old hills- the old writings and journals.
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Julian Winston wrote:
was
pictures
case)...
really
-
Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD
- Posts: 2279
- Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: Medorrhinum
Yes, you both are right, and then sometimes this type of interpretation becomes so useful:
I recently had a patient referred to me by another homeopath from another city, whom I absolutely respect and admire as a practitioner, very competent and certainly not "airy-fairy",....... but totally stuck with this patient.
And of course I came out with many of the remedies that had already been prescribed unsuccessfully, although they seemed very much indicated.
Another approach was needed, not based on complaints, symptoms given by the patient.
I did observe her and she looked like a frightened animal, fearful, nervous, reacting to each word or to each sound with aggressive suspicion; tried to repertorise that, came out with nothing (my limitations???).
So I asked myself "what does she remind me of?" a rabbit!!!! but a rabbit is cuddly and soft and cute, she certainly was not and on top of that she had a musky smell, very pronounced, she stank: a RAT!!!
Gave her Rattus Norv..............not only have ALL her symptoms and complaints disappeared, her smell has too, and no she did not change soap or deodorant or perfume (I asked her).
I then reviewed all my repertorisations, nowhere did this remedy appear or anything close to it, although the MM of Rattus covered her nicely.
So without this type of interpretation, I would never have found the remedy.
Certainly not a technique to learn in first year and to be used in all cases, but a way to go around a difficult case that should definitely not be neglected.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
I recently had a patient referred to me by another homeopath from another city, whom I absolutely respect and admire as a practitioner, very competent and certainly not "airy-fairy",....... but totally stuck with this patient.
And of course I came out with many of the remedies that had already been prescribed unsuccessfully, although they seemed very much indicated.
Another approach was needed, not based on complaints, symptoms given by the patient.
I did observe her and she looked like a frightened animal, fearful, nervous, reacting to each word or to each sound with aggressive suspicion; tried to repertorise that, came out with nothing (my limitations???).
So I asked myself "what does she remind me of?" a rabbit!!!! but a rabbit is cuddly and soft and cute, she certainly was not and on top of that she had a musky smell, very pronounced, she stank: a RAT!!!
Gave her Rattus Norv..............not only have ALL her symptoms and complaints disappeared, her smell has too, and no she did not change soap or deodorant or perfume (I asked her).
I then reviewed all my repertorisations, nowhere did this remedy appear or anything close to it, although the MM of Rattus covered her nicely.
So without this type of interpretation, I would never have found the remedy.
Certainly not a technique to learn in first year and to be used in all cases, but a way to go around a difficult case that should definitely not be neglected.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
-
muthu kumar
- Posts: 1208
- Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 10:00 pm
Re: Medorrhinum
Dr.Rozencwajg
I agree with you- There are always instances where the "narrow and
straight" would not be able to help us. There we need to do whatever
is needed to find the remedy. We have used Mother tinctures as Organ
remedies (Burnett's legacy) and nosodes as intercurrents whether they
are symptomatically indicated or not, remedies based just on
causation and nothing else, so why not based on Law of Signatures.
But it is when these are considered superior to other methods and
somehow gain more importance that it is necessary to look at what we
are doing. After all Homeopathy itself is analogy. All our medicines
are prescribed based on how they resemble actual symptoms. So there
are all kinds and degrees of resemblance.Resemblances could be to
Mental symptoms, to organs and seats of action etc. etc.
As I mentioned I have used remedy pictures and Law of signatures
myself. It is to the degree that it is being followed and where.
Thanks for your comments.
.com, "Dr.J Rozencwajg" wrote:
interpretation becomes so useful:
another city, whom I absolutely respect and admire as a practitioner,
very competent and certainly not "airy-fairy",....... but totally
stuck with this patient.
been prescribed unsuccessfully, although they seemed very much
indicated.
given by the patient.
nervous, reacting to each word or to each sound with aggressive
suspicion; tried to repertorise that, came out with nothing (my
limitations???).
rabbit is cuddly and soft and cute, she certainly was not and on top
of that she had a musky smell, very pronounced, she stank: a RAT!!!
and complaints disappeared, her smell has too, and no she did not
change soap or deodorant or perfume (I asked her).
appear or anything close to it, although the MM of Rattus covered her
nicely.
the remedy.
all cases, but a way to go around a difficult case that should
definitely not be neglected.
you
they
from
bring
also a
not
needs
a
and so
Does
potentize
drug
know
same
claims
Thallium.
takes
goes on
ashamed
reasoning
To
part
South
and
from
are
only
but
the
substance
proving
May be
clear
an
are
with
observation is
what
Materia
horizon
to a
gold
I agree with you- There are always instances where the "narrow and
straight" would not be able to help us. There we need to do whatever
is needed to find the remedy. We have used Mother tinctures as Organ
remedies (Burnett's legacy) and nosodes as intercurrents whether they
are symptomatically indicated or not, remedies based just on
causation and nothing else, so why not based on Law of Signatures.
But it is when these are considered superior to other methods and
somehow gain more importance that it is necessary to look at what we
are doing. After all Homeopathy itself is analogy. All our medicines
are prescribed based on how they resemble actual symptoms. So there
are all kinds and degrees of resemblance.Resemblances could be to
Mental symptoms, to organs and seats of action etc. etc.
As I mentioned I have used remedy pictures and Law of signatures
myself. It is to the degree that it is being followed and where.
Thanks for your comments.
.com, "Dr.J Rozencwajg" wrote:
interpretation becomes so useful:
another city, whom I absolutely respect and admire as a practitioner,
very competent and certainly not "airy-fairy",....... but totally
stuck with this patient.
been prescribed unsuccessfully, although they seemed very much
indicated.
given by the patient.
nervous, reacting to each word or to each sound with aggressive
suspicion; tried to repertorise that, came out with nothing (my
limitations???).
rabbit is cuddly and soft and cute, she certainly was not and on top
of that she had a musky smell, very pronounced, she stank: a RAT!!!
and complaints disappeared, her smell has too, and no she did not
change soap or deodorant or perfume (I asked her).
appear or anything close to it, although the MM of Rattus covered her
nicely.
the remedy.
all cases, but a way to go around a difficult case that should
definitely not be neglected.
you
they
from
bring
also a
not
needs
a
and so
Does
potentize
drug
know
same
claims
Thallium.
takes
goes on
ashamed
reasoning
To
part
South
and
from
are
only
but
the
substance
proving
May be
clear
an
are
with
observation is
what
Materia
horizon
to a
gold
-
Julian Winston
- Posts: 622
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: Medorrhinum
At 4:38 AM +0000 7/10/04, hahnemannian2002 wrote:
Indeed. There ARE times when it might help... but this is in the
hands of someone with years of experience with Materia Mdica. This is
NOT stuff that should be taught to students at an early level.
It seems so, sorry to say.
I feel the same. A giant mental wank.
One you start down that track, there IS no end. And THAT is the
problem. It becomes a circular ride where you eventually get
swallowed up your own backside.
The provings give the true pictures of the remedies-- when you have
good provings.
Reading into it is always fraught with danger.
And too many people are NOT aware of the mental wank they have departed upon.
JW
Indeed. There ARE times when it might help... but this is in the
hands of someone with years of experience with Materia Mdica. This is
NOT stuff that should be taught to students at an early level.
It seems so, sorry to say.
I feel the same. A giant mental wank.
One you start down that track, there IS no end. And THAT is the
problem. It becomes a circular ride where you eventually get
swallowed up your own backside.
The provings give the true pictures of the remedies-- when you have
good provings.
Reading into it is always fraught with danger.
And too many people are NOT aware of the mental wank they have departed upon.
JW
Re: Medorrhinum
But surely what Dr R was saying was that the reps failed but the MM gave
enough information for the simillimum. This isn't law of signatures it is
good homeopathic practice.
Best, Joy
www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 10/7/04 8:41 PM, hahnemannian2002 at hahnemannian2002@yahoo.com wrote:
Dr.Rozencwajg
I agree with you- There are always instances where the "narrow and
straight" would not be able to help us. There we need to do whatever
is needed to find the remedy. We have used Mother tinctures as Organ
remedies (Burnett's legacy) and nosodes as intercurrents whether they
are symptomatically indicated or not, remedies based just on
causation and nothing else, so why not based on Law of Signatures.
But it is when these are considered superior to other methods and
somehow gain more importance that it is necessary to look at what we
are doing. After all Homeopathy itself is analogy. All our medicines
are prescribed based on how they resemble actual symptoms. So there
are all kinds and degrees of resemblance.Resemblances could be to
Mental symptoms, to organs and seats of action etc. etc.
As I mentioned I have used remedy pictures and Law of signatures
myself. It is to the degree that it is being followed and where.
Thanks for your comments.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
enough information for the simillimum. This isn't law of signatures it is
good homeopathic practice.
Best, Joy
www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 10/7/04 8:41 PM, hahnemannian2002 at hahnemannian2002@yahoo.com wrote:
Dr.Rozencwajg
I agree with you- There are always instances where the "narrow and
straight" would not be able to help us. There we need to do whatever
is needed to find the remedy. We have used Mother tinctures as Organ
remedies (Burnett's legacy) and nosodes as intercurrents whether they
are symptomatically indicated or not, remedies based just on
causation and nothing else, so why not based on Law of Signatures.
But it is when these are considered superior to other methods and
somehow gain more importance that it is necessary to look at what we
are doing. After all Homeopathy itself is analogy. All our medicines
are prescribed based on how they resemble actual symptoms. So there
are all kinds and degrees of resemblance.Resemblances could be to
Mental symptoms, to organs and seats of action etc. etc.
As I mentioned I have used remedy pictures and Law of signatures
myself. It is to the degree that it is being followed and where.
Thanks for your comments.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]