Minutus

HI all,

ok. Now, most of us recognise the "memory of water" theory as the possible explanation to the question "how does homeopathy work?" I certainly quote it with confident authority whenever I'm trying to convince a sceptic....

However can anyone propose an explaination - or put into the "memory" context - how triturations then work?

Are we to say that they are considered simply a miniscule dose (eg bio-chemic rx's), the trituation having only diluting effect and no potentising effect?

Yet, if that is so, then how to explain how higher liqid potencies (8c or higher, according to pharmacopoeia) that are produced from triturations are energised?
Sincerely,
Didi Ananda Ruchira
Director, Abha Light
visit: http://home.pacific.net.sg/~rucira/alf
tel: +254 20 787310 / cell: 0733-895466

The vague explanations I've been given (as I remember) are--
- "memory" is carried in the water molecules held by the sugar, and/or
- "memory" can also be carried by the molecules of the sugar.

Could you re-phrase your last question?
Best,
Shannon
on 6/13/04 6:23 AM, Abha Light Foundation at rucira@pacific.net.sg wrote:

At 2:23 PM +0300 6/13/04, Abha Light Foundation wrote:
Ah ha!!
You've fallen into the big hole!
With all the stress on "memory of water" we forget several things...
1. That most potentization in the early stages uses ALCOHOL and not water
2. That some stuff begins life as TRITURATIONS
3. That the final form is usually a dilution of alcohol that is
dropped onto and impregnated upon SUGAR, and...
4. The dilution eventually evaporates from the sugar globule.

Yet... we get an effect when we take a dry sugar granule into our
mouth-- even if that granule has say around for over 100 years!

That is a BIG Hole!

And... we have no idea at all of how it does it.
Colin Lessell write a small tome about it, but while I admired his
attempt at trying, his explanations made no sense to me, and a
physicist I know looked at them and said they were rantings of a
deranged mind...
One thing Lessell laid stress upon is the need to make the stuff in
ROUND vessels-- round mortars, cylindrical vials, etc. Never having
seen a SQUARE Mortar and pestle, I can't verify what a remedy would
be like made on that....

I think we just have to accept that while we don't understand HOW it
works, we can easily verify, through clinical experience, that it
DOES work-- and that should be enough.

Haven't figured out Gravity and electricity either-- but we make use
of it just fine...

JW

Dear Shannon, et al

Shannon wrote:

My comments:
"vague" is right, in my opinion. I could possibly see the "water molecules in sugar" as a remote possible explanation.

that sugar also would be able to "carry memory" - hmmm that concept might turn the whole of physics and chemistry on their respective heads. how many other molecules in this universe can carry memory? all of them?

Shannon wrote:

that last question was:

Let's say I will retract that last question for sake of not getting diverted. Call it rhetorical. But I'll try to explain.

What i meant by my last question is that should we take the second question forward, we find ourselves in a whole lot of hot water with unanswerable questions.

If my previous question answers "yes" (ie, triturations are only minisule doses without potentisation) then a cascade of suppositions might follow, none of which are explainable anyway and probably a waste of time.
-- a) that triturations cure by minimum dose but not through energised, potentised rx.
-- b) that when we proceed to liquid potencies made from triturations (8c, 8x being the lowest liqid made from triturations) only then does potentising start.
-- but if (b) is so, then what are those triturations? (i) are they just powdered substance remaining insoluable with sugar?

and a whole bunch of other follow on questions come out of this IF you suppose that triturations are simply "minisule" doses WITHOUT potentisation. none of those questions make sense, i don't even want to bother posing them here.
So does sugar/ lactose carry memory? What's your opinion, people?
Sincerely,
Didi Ananda Ruchira
Director, Abha Light
visit: http://home.pacific.net.sg/~rucira/alf
tel: +254 20 787310 / cell: 0733-895466

At 10:52 AM +0300 6/14/04, Abha Light Foundation wrote:

[snip]
Must be, and that formulates a whole other bunch of questions.
Because....
B&T offered trituration tablets up to a 30X. I KNOW they worked
because my doc prescribed some long ago.
Then, while cleaning up B&T I found bottles of trits up to 58X--
which I guess were the back potencies for triting a 60X.
No dilution, no succussion, no alcohol-- just milk-sugar and the
mortar and pestle.

So... bye by "memory of water." The model is an interesting idea but
it does not answer a number of questions about homeopathic posology.

JW

But molecules show "memory" in many ways, don't they? Metals "remember"
stresses; genes "remember" nutritional deficiencies, miasms (and what
else?). So why not have sugar "remember" the "energy imprint" of the
substances, same as water?

Having the "memory" transferred to sugar pellets from a spray bottle of
potentized alcohol is "interesting", tho...

A favorite "how it works" response: I forget where I read it and I can't
remember who it was attributed to (maybe Julian can!), but it was one of the
early luminaries of homeopathy, asked by a reporter to give a "quick
statement about how hoemopathy works," and replied "Dammit, I can't and I
won't!" and stomped off. Ahhhhh, I like that! )

Shannon
on 6/14/04 6:11 PM, Julian Winston at jwinston@actrix.gen.nz wrote:

Dear Julian,
Am I lost? I thought x potencies were diluted and succussed (correct verb??). Didn't know they were made with only mortar and pestle.
Blessings,
Ellen Madono

Hi,

It seems that Hahnemann got the concept of trituration
and potentization from Paracelsus' alchemical
thoughts.

In alchemical teachings for transcending a crude thing
to a higher frequency of existence three processes
should be done; Separatio (separation), Purificatio
(purification) and Cohobatio (Union). By this
continuous cycle, gradually the corpora of the crude
material (Corpora) fades and its core pure powerful
substance (Arcanum) remains.

These three steps can be done either in a liquid or
solid medium.

I read in a book on history of Magic that Paracelsus
gave the patients either tasteless liquid like water
or white powder tasted like sugar!!

When Hahnemann was working in Brukental's library when
he was young, the library was full of alchemical books
and also of Paracelsus'.

But he does not mention the link of his thoughts to
Paracelsus as in the history, Paracelsus was not
considered as wise man; burning the books of Galen and
Avicenna because he did not beleive in them.

Hahnemann rejects the idea of Doctrine of Signatures
that Paracelsus worked on and also does not say
anything about Paracelsus' astrological beliefs linked
to application of the principle of simillimum but it
SEEMS that the basis of Hahnemann's posology is
derived from alchemical thoughts.

Modern science tries to understand the processes of
dynamization; memory of water is ONE of the
explanations.

Regards,

Ardavan

--- Julian Winston wrote: >
At 10:52 AM +0300 6/14/04, Abha Light Foundation

=====
"Life is beautiful, if you look at it in a beautiful way."

Dr Ardavan Shahrdar, MD, DIHom
President of Iranian Homeopathic Association
Website: http://www.minutus.org
Email: ashahrdar@yahoo.com
Mailing list: http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus
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Hi Didi,

You are doing something very different from what I have learned. My knowledge base is very narrow. Sorry I am not answering anything, just trying to follow.

You start potentizing at 8c or 8x. Why don't you potentize at lower than 8c or 8x? You were saying that you use remedy mixtures at 2x?? unpotentized?? I believe for drainage purposes. Maybe you could describe the context for what you are doing.

Blessings,
Ellen Madono

Hi Ellen,

By the time you get to 8 (whether c or x), you have indeed potentized, 7
times already. 2x is potentized, or it would not be an x (nor a c), but only
a dilution. Each step of x or c consists of *dilute and succuss* =
"potentize"; that's why each step (new number) is referred to as a
"potency"! I'm still a bit confused about Didi's train of thought...

Shannon

on 6/14/04 10:08 AM, Ellen Madono at ellen.madono@verizon.net wrote: