Minutus

Ref: http://www.pbase.com/homeo/minister

Subject: Future of Homeopathy - In the hands of Allopathy.

The future of homeopathy is lying in the hands of allopathy. This is a typical statement but let me inform you that the main posts in ministry of health in Pakistan are being held by allopathic doctors. When you visit the ministry for the uplift of homeopathy or for your own work, these allopaths do not behave properly and always try to impose hurdles in your work of homeopathy.

These alopaths ask various questions which are not answerable. To tackle this situation Dr. MAS assigned the duties of so many students, colleagues and friends to ask those questions on various mailing lists and discussion boards and get answers. For this purpose he also allowed to use his own email addresses and user name. So many many questions were initiated. Many students of Dr. Mas used his email addresses and user name.

The purpose was to get answers of those queries which was forwarded to him.

We are all satisfied with our homeopathic system but getting benefit from ministeris we have to tackle the situation in some other way. It is very easy to call bad names for allopathy but how to get benefit from them is a very difficult job.

For example, it was a plan of four homeopathic assoication to establish a homeopahtic medical college and hospital under the supervission of government. All the colleges are running in private sector. Although these are recognised by ministry of health. Ministry is spending 1,00,000 Ruppee on single MBBS student. But at the same time ministry has no fund for homeopathic students. They spend only Rs. 50 per student.

How can we get facilities from the hands of allopathy. They ask many questions about our courses, about our status, about our medicine and philosophy. It is true that we are satisfied with our system but they are not. For getting facilities from them we have to satisfy them. So many students got registeration in mailing lists and asked various questions in mailing lilsts and discussion board/forums

See that following question was asked at a forum “Where do we stand in the status of homeopathy in World Health Organization (WHO). Which countries have offically recognised our system of medicine. What is the role of WHO in the field of homeopathy.”

http://www.homeopathyhome.com/cgi-bin/b ... 2;t=007275

http://www.homeopathyhome.com/cgi-bin/b ... 2;t=006872

(These posts were send in pakistan mailing lists where members picked up and asked the same questions under their name)

You all people very strongly criticised him. But they continue their struggle for accomplishing their task. Sometime you felt that we do not know homeopathic basic principle. O.K some time it was done intentionaly, the reason was that was not our question that was health offical question we just put forwarded the question with our name even with our real name. Irrespective of the fact that this will damage our name in homeopathic community. We decided we will not care about this situation.

Just tell us the procedure / method how can we get good homeopathic status in Pakistan from the hands of allopathy. If you (respectable and good personality homeopaths ) will not guide us then how can we staisfy them.

Dr. Mas suggested that the Health Minister has some soft corner with homeopathy as he has worked in Royal college of london. We can approve homeopathic college and hospital from him.

A delegate representing an association met with helath minister punjab many months ago. Now that health minister has been changed. Even the minister Dr. Mahmood who also worked in Royal College of Lundon asked so many many questions regarding the standardization of education of homeopahy in Pakistan. He try to humilate the standard of courses.

Those question were asked in mailing lists and at discussion boards but non of you provided satisfactory replies. You took it as humour. We are our own enemy. If somebody ask a question which is against homeopathy we think that the opponent is against homeopathy but this is not the case.

We all are working for the cause of homeopathy. Our activities are free. We are not charging even a penny for free camps and seminar and workshops. We are all bearing our own expenditures even of our travelling. Then what can you do for us.

Only few members always responded positively like Dr. Leela and Dr. Shirely Reichman and other , may be they know the background of the questions.

Three months ago, Dr. MAS requested few foriegn members to come to Paksitan and have a talk. He said arrange of meetings is his responsiblity but satisfy them with your knowledge and information but sorry to say they all demanded travelling tickets and fees.

The contigent visite Lahore which is 200 kilometer away from their cities. Although the minster approved Homeopathic College and Hospital and a confirmation letter has also been received but who will spare time to continue their effort and proceed further with the case with next health official and staff.

http://www.pbase.com/homeo/minister
Could you please guide us!

Dr. Shahkeel Sarwar, DHMS (Black Belt)
Sub Editor Ninja Monthly
M/O Free Homeopathic Dispensary.
_____________________________________________________________
Get your free lifetime email @pakwatan.com!

Dear Dr Shahkeel

People all over the word try to dis-credit
Homoeopathy, often either out of ignorance and lack of
thought or because of some other hidden agenda,
especially to maintain the status quo for the
allopaths.

One way is to offer to take their cases and then sort
their long chronic problems? They soon become converts
if they have an ounce of fairness in them.

However you have the die-heard brigade who will insist
that homoeopathy does not work.

In a recent case where a columnist in one of UK's
major newspapers was trying discredit Homoeopathy, I
wrote and explained that whereas those opposing
Homoeopathy often said that it was basically the
placebo effect working, this was readily disproved
because we were able to demonstrate that it worked on
animals and small babies. You cannot psychologically
influence them!

I also explained that homoeopathic remedies were
'Proved' on volunteers and that the range of symptoms
they are able to produce are well know. We can
therefore challenge whoever disputes that homoeopathic
remedies work to take part in a reproving and we would
predict before hand the type of symptoms they are
likely to experience.

I made a personal challenge to the columnist and his
colleagues and developed a set procedure to ensure
that the safety of the volunteers was ensured and also
our procedure was carefully considered to make sure no
one could dispute the effect afterwards.

The Challenged volunteers had to sign on a sheet a
record of the symptoms experienced and confirm whether
these matched the predicted symptoms and have it
witnessed. We would then give them the antidote to get
them out of their agony.

The columnist soon backed away.

Perhaps failing the offer to try to cure them you may
wish to consider this procedure with the officials at
the Ministry.
Rgds
Soroush
--- "Dr.Shahkeel Sarwar" wrote:
---------------------------------
Ref: http://www.pbase.com/homeo/minister

Subject: Future of Homeopathy - In the hands of
Allopathy.

The future of homeopathy is lying in the hands of
allopathy. This is a typical statement but let me
inform you that the main posts in ministry of health
in Pakistan are being held by allopathic doctors. When
you visit the ministry for the uplift of homeopathy or
for your own work, these allopaths do not behave
properly and always try to impose hurdles in your work
of homeopathy.

These alopaths ask various questions which are not
answerable. To tackle this situation Dr. MAS assigned
the duties of so many students, colleagues and friends
to ask those questions on various mailing lists and
discussion boards and get answers. For this purpose he
also allowed to use his own email addresses and user
name. So many many questions were initiated. Many
students of Dr. Mas used his email addresses and user
name.

The purpose was to get answers of those queries which
was forwarded to him.

We are all satisfied with our homeopathic system but
getting benefit from ministeris we have to tackle the
situation in some other way. It is very easy to call
bad names for allopathy but how to get benefit from
them is a very difficult job.

For example, it was a plan of four homeopathic
assoication to establish a homeopahtic medical college
and hospital under the supervission of government. All
the colleges are running in private sector. Although
these are recognised by ministry of health. Ministry
is spending 1,00,000 Ruppee on single MBBS student.
But at the same time ministry has no fund for
homeopathic students. They spend only Rs. 50 per
student.

How can we get facilities from the hands of allopathy.
They ask many questions about our courses, about our
status, about our medicine and philosophy. It is true
that we are satisfied with our system but they are
not. For getting facilities from them we have to
satisfy them. So many students got registeration in
mailing lists and asked various questions in mailing
lilsts and discussion board/forums

See that following question was asked at a forum
“Where do we stand in the status of homeopathy in
World Health Organization (WHO). Which countries have
offically recognised our system of medicine. What is
the role of WHO in the field of homeopathy.â€

http://www.homeopathyhome.com/cgi-bin/b ... 2;t=007275
http://www.homeopathyhome.com/cgi-bin/b ... 2;t=006872

(These posts were send in pakistan mailing lists where
members picked up and asked the same questions under
their name)

You all people very strongly criticised him. But they
continue their struggle for accomplishing their task.
Sometime you felt that we do not know homeopathic
basic principle. O.K some time it was done
intentionaly, the reason was that was not our question
that was health offical question we just put forwarded
the question with our name even with our real name.
Irrespective of the fact that this will damage our
name in homeopathic community. We decided we will not
care about this situation.

Just tell us the procedure / method how can we get
good homeopathic status in Pakistan from the hands of
allopathy. If you (respectable and good personality
homeopaths ) will not guide us then how can we staisfy
them.

Dr. Mas suggested that the Health Minister has some
soft corner with homeopathy as he has worked in Royal
college of london. We can approve homeopathic college
and hospital from him.

A delegate representing an association met with
helath minister punjab many months ago. Now that
health minister has been changed. Even the minister
Dr. Mahmood who also worked in Royal College of Lundon
asked so many many questions regarding the
standardization of education of homeopahy in Pakistan.
He try to humilate the standard of courses.

Those question were asked in mailing lists and at
discussion boards but non of you provided satisfactory
replies. You took it as humour. We are our own enemy.
If somebody ask a question which is against homeopathy
we think that the opponent is against homeopathy but
this is not the case.

We all are working for the cause of homeopathy. Our
activities are free. We are not charging even a penny
for free camps and seminar and workshops. We are all
bearing our own expenditures even of our travelling.
Then what can you do for us.

Only few members always responded positively like Dr.
Leela and Dr. Shirely Reichman and other , may be they
know the background of the questions.

Three months ago, Dr. MAS requested few foriegn
members to come to Paksitan and have a talk. He said
arrange of meetings is his responsiblity but satisfy
them with your knowledge and information but sorry to
say they all demanded travelling tickets and fees.

The contigent visite Lahore which is 200 kilometer
away from their cities. Although the minster approved
Homeopathic College and Hospital and a confirmation
letter has also been received but who will spare time
to continue their effort and proceed further with the
case with next health official and staff.

http://www.pbase.com/homeo/minister
Could you please guide us!

Dr. Shahkeel Sarwar, DHMS (Black Belt)
Sub Editor Ninja Monthly
M/O Free Homeopathic Dispensary.
_____________________________________________________________
Get your free lifetime email @pakwatan.com!

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Dear Dr. Sarwar,

I feel so very sad about some of what you have written here!!! Most I have
no answer to, but let me try to address some little bits of it.

on 11/16/03 12:19 PM, Dr.Shahkeel Sarwar at drss@pakwatan.com wrote:
This sometimes happens here in the US, also. I think the "established"
medical bodies are a very, very big problem for those they perceive as
"competition", or a threat to them. I think this issue is one that we still
all need to give a lot more thought to. We *have* to stand up effectively
to them, yet we have to do it in a way that doesn't lower us.
And oh dear, here is where I get an uncomfortable sense of recognition about
what familiar figure may be mentioned... You are of course talking about
the enigmatic HomeoBond that we treated with such ill-temper?
I wish this had all been explain *at the outset*.
I wish this had not been done in a way that came across as insincere.
I wish we had been *told* why these questions were being asked!!!!!!!! At
the *beginning*, not late in the game, so late that trust had already been
desetroyed.
Initially we did try to provide answers.
Some of the questions were intriguing (and others were just weird).
But the way the questions were given -- imperious wording such as, "You will
explain..."; and the way our answers were received -- no replies, just an
occasional note that "I am on 400 bulletin boards, and I don't answer
questions..."; and cryptic "explanations" that made no sense in context of
the questions.

Having the *context* explained makes all the difference!
Yes, it surely is.
Especially because many of them do not *want* to understand or "believe",
and no matter how good the "evidence" or explanation, they do not want to
hear, because they feel that if "we" are correct, then that truth threatens
"their truth". Which is to some degree true, but life is large, there's
room for all...
Can the homeopathic facilities simply be built without government and
allopathic input, perhaps with private funding?

Here in the US there is no official support of any sort for homeopathy. One
result is that we have few homeopaths, and the homeopathy schools are all on
some sort of a "one weekend a month" for (I think usually) either three or
four years, usually meeting in rented facilities. Which leaves a *lot* to
be desired, but at least we are free of "supervision"! (Then once we have
"qualified", we operate in a gray zone; not legal, but usually not harrassed
so long as we "don't treat diseases", refer all patients with a "medical
condition" to an MD, and all that garbage...) Will that approach work in
Pakistan, or would that not be possible or allowed?
Oh dear, and wound up with a *very* un-civil reception -- from folks who
would have *wanted* to help!!! -- because we did not understand what was
happening.
Why wasn't it explained, that this was a question asked by an allopath or
government person, whom you were trying to find a way to answer????? We
would have been *so* pleased to try to help with this!
Let's try again.
But this question above I think depends on more than just answers to
homeopathy. Can you explain for us some of the "politics" involved? Is
there only one dominant medical system, or does it coexist with "native" or
"folk" medicine systems, or any sorts of "natural healing"? Sorry for my
ignorance... This might give us a better framework for thinking about how
to help a change.
Do you mean that the delegate represented a *homeopathic* association? And
that the health minister was perhaps removed because of being too soft
toward homeopathy?
Maybe a starting point, then, would be to ask for his suggestions as to how
*he* feels the standard should be raised. Perhaps he has some accurate
observations, and perhaps he could make useful suggestions.

And, I think anyone might be more favorably disposed toward another group,
if they felt that group is willing to listen, discuss, make changes, and
toward toward whatever common goals can be identified. Do you think he
might respond to that?
Actually, I think *some* of the replies were good ones -- especially early
on, before folks decided that the questioner was insincere and "playing with
us".

Some of the questions were, as you said, unanswerable, and maybe what's
needed for those, are some ways to put their "unanswerability" into sort of
a "teaching framework". I would be very interested to try again with some
of those questions. It's quite a problem, not just for Pakistani
homeopaths, but for many of the rest of us too!!!!
If I can offer my own reasons, as one of the "guilty", one of the
offenders... I became so confused by the nature of the questions, by the
fact that they did not match up with the writer's claims to be an
experienced homeopath, and frustrated by the fact that even a long and
carefully thought out answer (and in the early days there were a number of
those!) got no response at all, except an occasion remark that "I am on 400
bulletin boards and I don't answer questions, I only ask them." Now that I
understand the situation I can understand the reason for that -- but we were
not *told* the situation, and the effect of that was to many of us extremely
offensive!!! Felt as tho we were being used, teased, "messed with", just
for somebody's weird idea of "fun". I wish we had been told the true
situation.

Please keep telling us more about what develops in your situation.
I hope that, now that the situation is better understood, something better
can come out of it.

With very best wishes,
Shannon

Bob&Shannon wrote:

Hi Shannon , Hi All

On this subject, just get some high up politicians hooked on Homeopathy
and the road will be smooth.
In Malaysia, the Health Ministry doctors have been directed to include
Homeopathy in the Health system after it is regulated...it is going to
take maybe another 5-10 years but , it is in the pipelines. Here most of
the top people are into complementary medicene, it paves the way certainly.
And to answer Souroush about allopathic mindset, we all start somewhere,
even Kent and many other pioneer homeopaths were from the Allopathic
school, it is not impossible to change, there will alway be doctors who
feel uncomfortable over the
allopathic ways of treating, they just get throughly sick of it, totally
disillusioned and then find an alternative .
In my opinion, there is something worse than an allopath turned
homeopath and that is a fundamentalist homeopath, rigid , unbendable ,
who make their own walls , create their own rigid laws on how to treat
and then ask others not to break them ...saying it is wrong even when we
get results..from different ways of treating. homeopathically...to the
point of saying..that is not homeopathy...
Those are they who police every list and stop every useful discussion on
the practicalities of homeopathy.
regards

Suriya