Minutus

Dear Atiq

Peace and greetings.

Indeed the excellence of a free mind was shown to us by Hahnemann. He
experimented for almost 43 years and changed his mind a number of times.
Perhaps if he was alive today the practise of homeopathy would have been
totally different.

However we are left with his legacy and my view is that we are permitted to
do further experiments if we find that by applying his instructions
correctly we cannot achieve the task of healing etc. There is no need to
re-invent the wheel.

So I should be grateful if you would kindly advise us of the principles of
Freemindopathy.

Additionally:
1- Are we to re-write the Organon?

2- In a Chronic case are we to treat particular symptoms (eg. Hair loss) or
the 'Totality' of the case?

3- Have the Principles of Homoeopathy become old-fashioned and closed
minded?

Please enlighten us. [Perhaps I need Bell??? ) ]

NB - Please NOTE that I am asking you to explain yourself and not to be
silent!!

Rgds
Soroush
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Soroush,

Atiq hasn't said anything that is *against* the strictly classical approach,
but has made some suggestions that don't seem to fall under its purview.
But what is the need of belaboring that point? Surely those of us who
choose to follow a strictly classical approach will easily *recognize* which
suggestions deviate from that approach, and can choose whether or not we
wish to note or consider them.

If you have someone for whom hair loss (or whatever) is a major problem and
your totality-based search is unsuccessful, OR is successful in every regard
*except* in correcting the hair loss, might you be interested in having
those suggestions on hand? I would, and so I appreciate having them posted.
I for one would never *begin* a case of hair loss (or any other chronic
condition) with a "specific remedy". But even in the Orgnon it is mentioned
that sometimes the main remedy will fail to correct a *specific* problem,
and in that case it is quite acceptable to treat that specific problem with
a specific remedy. (I cannot remember the quote or aphorism, but I am quite
sure I remember something to that effect being contained in the Organon.)

So maybe, instead of chastizing Atiq, we should have a discussion at the
"context" in which such suggestions might be appropriately used (in our
various opinions), and then let the suggestions stand as given, for each of
us to note or reject as we choose?

Best,
Shannon
on 10/18/03 11:52 AM, Finrod at finrod@webstar.co.uk wrote:

Soroush,

Thank for the ever 'inspiring and motivational' email. It always cheers me up when I read your responses.

As I CLEARLY STATED last time, it works for me, as it worked for my father, my fathers younger brother, my grandfather, his other 4 brothers and my great grandfather.

I am learning a great deal from this group, and I am not questioning any individuals capabilities. We can respect, or we can discuss, but we should not debate if it gets personal.

So in answer to your questions:

The Organon is the foundation stone for ALL Homeopaths.
No one has re-invented the wheel. But certainly every individual has a right to design his or her wheel differently? As long it is round in motion and allows forward movement?? The tools we have been given are the writings and guidance of the founder and the provings. The rest is up to individuals.

In Chronic cases, one MUST prescribe with the totality of symptoms in mind, but in certain instances, I have found that even if you prescribe with the acute scenario philosophy, it works just as effectively. The thing is you may argue this all day, but if you don't try it yourself, then you'll never understand what I am trying to say.
Finally, I believe that ALL Homeopaths are fortunate enough to serve humanity through this God given medical science. We are all different as individuals, and we can all learn from each other or with each other.

I do not want to have to justify my prescription methods to you if you are going to sit on the throne of the Organon and judge all responses to that accord.
I am well aware of the teachings of Hahnemann, more than you will ever know, and certainly more than I would like to divulge here.

In closing, I would say like to share something with you.

One of my close family members (whom I have learnt a great deal from) can by analysing the patients pulse on the left wrist, know exactly what to prescribe and what that person is suffering from - be it acute or chronic.

I have witnessed this myself and it was at this time that my philosophy changed and my practice methods progressed as far as my practice of Homeopathy is concerned.
My understanding of Homeopathy and how to best use it for my service to humanity is most definately totally different to how you may practice. And this is due to factors that are not related to any text book.

I hope neither you nor anyone else on the list is offended by any comments I have made. I am trying to get a point across to you that I practice differently. I don't know the name of my practice method, so whatever you are pleased to call it, please carry on. I call it a service to humanity.

If you are not interested in my input, please delete my emails from the inbox, but please do not stop the wheel turning so much so that we all end up with a puncture we can't fix.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Atiq and Soroush,

I hope we can step back and do this as an inquiry/exploration instead of as
a challenge. Soroush, I share certain of your reservations, but I (and you)
will not have the opportunity to explore the issues with Atiq unless we can
keep an air of "friendly discourse" so that everyone feels free to keep
speaking plainly. I do *not* want to undercut the benefits of Atiq's
wonderful family background! Neither do I want to assume that all of it is
beyond discussion. Homeopathy is so full of fascinating and under-explored
byways, I feel we all lose out when we erect "us/them partitions".

Here's my specific concern:

on 10/20/03 5:49 AM, Atiq Ahmad Bhatti at atiq@homoeopathyforlife.co.uk
wrote:
Atiq, the thing I would worry about, in prescribing symptomatically and
locally (which I assume is what you mean by "using the acute scenario
philosophy") for something like hair loss, is that the deeper *reasons* for
the hair loss will go unrecognized and unrelieved, permitting the trouble to
continue until something even worse develops -- if it hasn't already! I'm
not aware of any benign reasons for hair loss in e.g. a young woman. I'm
aware of lots of possible reasons which *will* cause further and deeper
problems if not resolved -- emotions, toxicity, hormone imbalance -- many
possible reasons have been mentioned so far, and it doesn't seem possible
that any "specific for hair loss" could address that range, and I wonder
whether it addresses *any* of the possible causes -- it would be good to
which which!

But I'd be interested in hearing both your thoughts and experiences with
this -- have you seen an *otherwise healthy* person, whose only symptom is
hair loss? Or would you use this only after the constitutional treatment
had been done, and had not sufficiently healed the hair?

(snip)

Now that is fascinating!!!!
How did he learn this, do you know? How "teachable" is it???

Best to all,
Shannon

> Atiq wrote:

Atiq,

Is this the same or similar pulse reading that Dr. Eli Jones wrote about in his book: Reading the Eye, Pulse & Tongue for the Indicated Remedy
ISBN 0-9623518-2-2

I believe that a Dr. ?DeCola? wrote something about reading the pulse also.... I believe oriental docs do this as well.
Health, Hope, Joy & Healing :
May you Prosper, even as your Soul Prospers 3John 2

Jennifer Ruby

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

http://www.rubysemporium.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SymphonicHealth
http://www.LivingNow.net/rubysemporium4life/
24Hr TollFree Transfer Factor Info line 1-866-315-4002

______________________________________________
«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Dear Bhatti,

The feeling of pulse with three fingers, its force, vigor and nature gives
nine indications under each finger, thus making a total of 27 indications.
This was first enunciated by Gallus, and it ascended its climax in the
hands of the Indian hakims. The main cause of the downfall of this system
here was that they did not teach this method to any one except their
offsprings. Gradually this faded, and now we have a very few number of such
hakims. Most of the hakims claim but are not actual Nabbaz. Your name and
input makes me feel that you know what a nabbaz is !! A nabbaz can tell a
patient even what one has eaten and the food which has distressed can also
be brought to light. The feelings/sensations can be predicted through the
temperament by the hakim and it has nothing to do with what actually the
patient is FEELING. Subjective/Objective Symptoms and their IMPORTANCE???

Secondly this method can guide you which organ is in problem, also the
temperament of the patient. I am sure you will very kindly second me that
knowing about these two things does not make possible to reach at the
Simillimum/similar remedy. All you can gain is to satisfy yourself with a
partially similar remedy.

It is very fascinating that you belong to a hakim family, and that your
fore fathers were nabbaz, but how many of you are now nabbaz? Please do not
feel offended, because all I am trying to elucidate is that it has been
kept a "Closely Guarded Secret"

Belonging to a hakim family does not mean that one has all the capabilities
of one's forefathers...knowledge is not genetically transferred material.
Hahneimann was a son of a potter but he himself was not a potter, nor any
of his offspring became Hahneimann. Same is true with Kent, Farrington,
Allen, Herring and many to come as yet :)!!

You cannot design a different wheel, because as long as it is round it is a
wheel invented by someone else. Your great grandfather must have lived some
100 years before, and in his time homeopathy was not introduced in the
subcontinent.

True that you deserve to do anything with homeopathy as long it is between
you and your patients, but once your suggestion is on AIR, it does not
remain your personal approach...it becomes of public interest and concern.
I believe that Soroush wrote nothing such which could be termed personal.
He has a well reputed approach, widely accepted as CLASSICAL, and same is
true with Maria T.Bohle, Joy Lucas, Dave...sorry list...I do not remember
all your good names !!! But I know one thing for sure...this list has
widened the horizon of my approach.

Dear Bhatti, will you please enlighten me how are you going to distinguish
an acute case from an acute exacerbation of a chronic miasm. Weak pulse
under which finger will lead you to decide that this acute case is not
being triggered by a chronic miasm? I, as all others, believe that not only
CHRONIC but every acute case must be cured with the totality of symptoms,
be it a bedside prescription.

Organon is the CRITERIA...THE ONLY CRITERIA...to decide what is natural and
what is not...what is caringly human approach and what is not...what is
permissible and what is dismissible. But I really adored your saying of
"throne of Organon"

The factors not related in any textbook are only those which the great
hakims of the past had not made public, lest their knowledge be shared by
others and their monopoly gets at stake. I myself know some hakims in my
vicinity and as I am also from the sub-continent, I know their nature very
well. Same is true for the Sanyasis.

I fully agree with you that the wheel must be kept in motion and if there
is a puncture in it which we can't fix, we should look for a new wheel,
rather than stopping the Kinetics.

I am sorry that I have not read the newer responses as yet, and if this
thread has been stopped, please accept my humblest excuse. Take care.

Sincerely,
Zaidee

Message: 11
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:49:23 +0100
From: "Atiq Ahmad Bhatti"
Subject: Re: Freemindopathy - Was Hair-loss
Soroush,
Thank for the ever 'inspiring and motivational' email. It always cheers me
up when I read your responses.
As I CLEARLY STATED last time, it works for me, as it worked for my father,
my fathers younger brother, my grandfather, his other 4 brothers and my
great grandfather.
I am learning a great deal from this group, and I am not questioning any
individuals capabilities. We can respect, or we can discuss, but we should
not debate if it gets personal.
So in answer to your questions:
The Organon is the foundation stone for ALL Homeopaths.
No one has re-invented the wheel. But certainly every individual has a
right to design his or her wheel differently? As long it is round in motion
and allows forward movement?? The tools we have been given are the writings
and guidance of the founder and the provings. The rest is up to individuals.

In Chronic cases, one MUST prescribe with the totality of symptoms in mind,
but in certain instances, I have found that even if you prescribe with the
acute scenario philosophy, it works just as effectively. The thing is you
may argue this all day, but if you don't try it yourself, then you'll never
understand what I am trying to say.

Finally, I believe that ALL Homeopaths are fortunate enough to serve
humanity through this God given medical science. We are all different as
individuals, and we can all learn from each other or with each other.
I do not want to have to justify my prescription methods to you if you are
going to sit on the throne of the Organon and judge all responses to that
accord.
I am well aware of the teachings of Hahnemann, more than you will ever
know, and certainly more than I would like to divulge here.
In closing, I would say like to share something with you.
One of my close family members (whom I have learnt a great deal from) can
by analysing the patients pulse on the left wrist, know exactly what to
prescribe and what that person is suffering from - be it acute or chronic.
I have witnessed this myself and it was at this time that my philosophy
changed and my practice methods progressed as far as my practice of
Homeopathy is concerned.
My understanding of Homeopathy and how to best use it for my service to
humanity is most definately totally different to how you may practice. And
this is due to factors that are not related to any text book.
I hope neither you nor anyone else on the list is offended by any comments
I have made. I am trying to get a point across to you that I practice
differently. I don't know the name of my practice method, so whatever you
are pleased to call it, please carry on. I call it a service to humanity.
If you are not interested in my input, please delete my emails from the
inbox, but please do not stop the wheel turning so much so that we all end
up with a puncture we can't fix.

Buddy we got trouble here. If hakims taught only to their offsprings then the number always increased and the population growth rate in Pakistan is 2.5. If you had 1000 hakims then in one generation they would have 1000+2500. And this system is around for 1000 years then at least couple million would be there. It was just hit-mit case in olden days and the reputation got built on mainly false claims. One such claim is that a Nabaz could figure out about cat behind the veil. Anyway u can tell some stuff but not much.
Nanga Pir

Zaidee wrote:
Dear Bhatti,

The feeling of pulse with three fingers, its force, vigor and nature gives
nine indications under each finger, thus making a total of 27 indications.
This was first enunciated by Gallus, and it ascended its climax in the
hands of the Indian hakims. The main cause of the downfall of this system
here was that they did not teach this method to any one except their
offsprings. Gradually this faded, and now we have a very few number of such
hakims. Most of the hakims claim but are not actual Nabbaz. Your name and
input makes me feel that you know what a nabbaz is !! A nabbaz can tell a
patient even what one has eaten and the food which has distressed can also
be brought to light. The feelings/sensations can be predicted through the
temperament by the hakim and it has nothing to do with what actually the
patient is FEELING. Subjective/Objective Symptoms and their IMPORTANCE???

Secondly this method can guide you which organ is in problem, also the
temperament of the patient. I am sure you will very kindly second me that
knowing about these two things does not make possible to reach at the
Simillimum/similar remedy. All you can gain is to satisfy yourself with a
partially similar remedy.

It is very fascinating that you belong to a hakim family, and that your
fore fathers were nabbaz, but how many of you are now nabbaz? Please do not
feel offended, because all I am trying to elucidate is that it has been
kept a "Closely Guarded Secret"

Belonging to a hakim family does not mean that one has all the capabilities
of one's forefathers...knowledge is not genetically transferred material.
Hahneimann was a son of a potter but he himself was not a potter, nor any
of his offspring became Hahneimann. Same is true with Kent, Farrington,
Allen, Herring and many to come as yet :)!!

You cannot design a different wheel, because as long as it is round it is a
wheel invented by someone else. Your great grandfather must have lived some
100 years before, and in his time homeopathy was not introduced in the
subcontinent.

True that you deserve to do anything with homeopathy as long it is between
you and your patients, but once your suggestion is on AIR, it does not
remain your personal approach...it becomes of public interest and concern.
I believe that Soroush wrote nothing such which could be termed personal.
He has a well reputed approach, widely accepted as CLASSICAL, and same is
true with Maria T.Bohle, Joy Lucas, Dave...sorry list...I do not remember
all your good names !!! But I know one thing for sure...this list has
widened the horizon of my approach.

Dear Bhatti, will you please enlighten me how are you going to distinguish
an acute case from an acute exacerbation of a chronic miasm. Weak pulse
under which finger will lead you to decide that this acute case is not
being triggered by a chronic miasm? I, as all others, believe that not only
CHRONIC but every acute case must be cured with the totality of symptoms,
be it a bedside prescription.

Organon is the CRITERIA...THE ONLY CRITERIA...to decide what is natural and
what is not...what is caringly human approach and what is not...what is
permissible and what is dismissible. But I really adored your saying of
"throne of Organon"

The factors not related in any textbook are only those which the great
hakims of the past had not made public, lest their knowledge be shared by
others and their monopoly gets at stake. I myself know some hakims in my
vicinity and as I am also from the sub-continent, I know their nature very
well. Same is true for the Sanyasis.

I fully agree with you that the wheel must be kept in motion and if there
is a puncture in it which we can't fix, we should look for a new wheel,
rather than stopping the Kinetics.

I am sorry that I have not read the newer responses as yet, and if this
thread has been stopped, please accept my humblest excuse. Take care.

Sincerely,
Zaidee

Message: 11
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:49:23 +0100
From: "Atiq Ahmad Bhatti"
Subject: Re: Freemindopathy - Was Hair-loss
Soroush,
Thank for the ever 'inspiring and motivational' email. It always cheers me
up when I read your responses.
As I CLEARLY STATED last time, it works for me, as it worked for my father,
my fathers younger brother, my grandfather, his other 4 brothers and my
great grandfather.
I am learning a great deal from this group, and I am not questioning any
individuals capabilities. We can respect, or we can discuss, but we should
not debate if it gets personal.
So in answer to your questions:
The Organon is the foundation stone for ALL Homeopaths.
No one has re-invented the wheel. But certainly every individual has a
right to design his or her wheel differently? As long it is round in motion
and allows forward movement?? The tools we have been given are the writings
and guidance of the founder and the provings. The rest is up to individuals.

In Chronic cases, one MUST prescribe with the totality of symptoms in mind,
but in certain instances, I have found that even if you prescribe with the
acute scenario philosophy, it works just as effectively. The thing is you
may argue this all day, but if you don't try it yourself, then you'll never
understand what I am trying to say.

Finally, I believe that ALL Homeopaths are fortunate enough to serve
humanity through this God given medical science. We are all different as
individuals, and we can all learn from each other or with each other.
I do not want to have to justify my prescription methods to you if you are
going to sit on the throne of the Organon and judge all responses to that
accord.
I am well aware of the teachings of Hahnemann, more than you will ever
know, and certainly more than I would like to divulge here.
In closing, I would say like to share something with you.
One of my close family members (whom I have learnt a great deal from) can
by analysing the patients pulse on the left wrist, know exactly what to
prescribe and what that person is suffering from - be it acute or chronic.
I have witnessed this myself and it was at this time that my philosophy
changed and my practice methods progressed as far as my practice of
Homeopathy is concerned.
My understanding of Homeopathy and how to best use it for my service to
humanity is most definately totally different to how you may practice. And
this is due to factors that are not related to any text book.
I hope neither you nor anyone else on the list is offended by any comments
I have made. I am trying to get a point across to you that I practice
differently. I don't know the name of my practice method, so whatever you
are pleased to call it, please carry on. I call it a service to humanity.
If you are not interested in my input, please delete my emails from the
inbox, but please do not stop the wheel turning so much so that we all end
up with a puncture we can't fix.
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

ATTENTION PLEASE:

The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.

****
If you do not wish to receive individual emails, send a message with the subject of 'Digest' to ashahrdar@yahoo.com to receive a single daily digest.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
minutus-unsubscribe@egroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]