Minutus

Dear friends,

In the recent times a contraversy has been raised by
one of the well known Biology Scientist that
Homeopathy has NO scientific basis and it has to be
banned in India ( recently some other alternative
therapies have been banned by Indian Medical Council
).Lot of counter arguments have also been put by our
Homeopathic faternity.

In this connection to make our points cleare and
stronger I request the group members to thrown some
light onthis subject.

Thank You,

Ravinder

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What basis do they have for saying that the process of "proving" remedies to
determine their usefulness, is not scientific? Are you able to explain what
the thinking is?

Are they also throwing out allomeds whoses uses weren't arrived at
"scientifically" -- e.g. penecillin (discovered by accident) and aspirin (so
far as I've heard, we still don't know why it works)?

What therapies have so far been banned, if you recall?

Thanks,
Shannon
on 9/3/03 6:52 AM, ravinder kondadhasula at niki_nitu@yahoo.com wrote:

The term "scientific" is used by allopaths to describe their methods. I do not know how a scientific medical system can frequently throw away its drugs because of their serious side effects. Why the more they "cure" the more we have serious diseases!? These people think that using sophisticated chemical and physical formulas, using high-tech instruments, etc make their work scientific. Ridiculous! We have not forgotten that Newtonian physics that nobody dared to suspect, was destroyed by the new theories. I'm sure that this narrow-minded understanding of the nature will be gone in the near future, too.
Feras Hakkak
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Excuse me.... Newtonian physics was not destroyed....... just amplified and demonstrated to be part of a totality we just start to grasp.
Most of the physics used in daily life is still well accounted for by Newtonian physics, and it would be an overkill to design a car engine with quantum physics or chaos mathematics.....

OK??

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind""

As I understand it, allopathy rarely cures, it usually just palliates.

In terms of 'scientific' explanations, I'm trying to find time to explore the work by French physicist Roland Conte and another whose name I have forgotten (sorry) who are published already on the subject of high dilution etc (available from some bookshops, Amazon etc). They have been studying the effects of high dilution of homeopathic remedies and of succussion. Their studies prompted them to come up with some new equations/theories and they developed the "white hole" theory (as opposed to black hole). They sent a copy of their manuscript to Steven Hawkings who (hope this is correct) was so excited published a new book of his own on the subject before Roland et al published theirs.

As someone pointed out, there other energy theories that we utilise daily without understanding completely and this is one of them. I do believe that there is further explanation in the energy field (pun intended). Acupuncture stimulates the body's energy (vital force, defence mechanism etc?) to encourage it to heal itself. As a young person growing up I could see lots of "naturally" occurring diseases and couldn't believe that there was also a cure for each one naturally occurring on this planet. Now I have discovered that there is - homeopathy! You use the 'energy' of a remedy specific to your totality to stimulate your energy system to cure itself. You find certain diseases tend to occur in only certain parts of the world (less so these days), but if you look closely, you will find a plant/animal/mineral indigenous to that area that has been used to cure/alleviate that disease. I don't think these are accidents. If we listen to nature more instead of thinking we need to improve on nature all the time we might do a lot better.

Regards,

Elizabeth

I know that most of our instruments and machines are made with the formulas of Newtonian physics but Newtonian physics is not only the formulas. The philosophy is a part of it. In this school, they claim that they can predict everything if they have all the data related to the present time. They understand the nature as a huge machine and try to deal with it by reductionism. This is why I said Newtonian physics was destroyed by the new theories. This is exactly similar to the relation between the western modern medicine and the holistic medical systems.
Question: Why do we say that the modern medicine is bad? In their hospitals they save lives and they do many things to relieve the pains, cure acute and chronic diseases, etc. Are we allowed to say that their method does not work?
Answer: If you see the details only (reductionism), you have to admit that their job is miraculous, they are so powerful. But when you come to the totality, you will find out what is happening. They correct something and somewhere else the problem comes out. This is because they think they can do everything if they go more and more to the details without considering the whole. This is Newtonian medicine!
"Dr. J. Rozencwajg. MD. PhD." wrote:
Excuse me.... Newtonian physics was not destroyed....... just amplified and demonstrated to be part of a totality we just start to grasp.
Most of the physics used in daily life is still well accounted for by Newtonian physics, and it would be an overkill to design a car engine with quantum physics or chaos mathematics.....

OK??

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind""

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Good points Mr Hakkak,
Interesting comments but remember if patients were CURED by all that what so
called'' scientifically proved Drugs'' there would not be so many new
diseases which are results of drugs' side effects. As we see cases that
have been under medical care and taking such a prescribed well proved drugs
for so many years and still no any changes towards the CUR but they have
more symptoms to report too. My understanding of CUR is to gain the original
health which I experience that through Homoeopathy and some of the other
kind of complimentary medicine. As you mentioned medicine of future is going
to be the energy medicine than chemicals.
with Respect,
Fatima

Dear Members,

Thanks for explaining some useful points regarding the scientificity
of homeopathy. Actually my idea was to gather some points where by
the action of our medicines can be explained .Its true thats infinite
number of patients are being benifited by homeopathic medicine and
vast data is available regarding the drug provings but the only point
they are raising is that there is no drug material in our medicines
beyond 12C.

The scientist who has raised objection went to the extent saying that
homeopathic system is faith healing , Govt should not fund
Homeopathic medicine and the Govt should ban Homeopaths from using
Dr. in front of their names.As one of the members was asking whcih
systems of alternative medicine were banned by Indian Medical
council , the banned systems are Rekei, Electrohomeopathy,
Hydrotherapy etc.

Thank you,

ravinder

Chamber's dictionary gives the meaning of science as thus:
science: Knowledge. Knowledge ascertained by observation and
experiment,
critically tested, systematised and brought under general principles.
a
department of such knowledge or study.

What do they mean by unscientific ? Over two hundred years of
observation and
study by homeopaths have gone into verification of its fundamentals.

Its law of similars is coming true in millions of clinics throughout
the
world. This law has led to several novelties such as the
differentiation
between cure from mere recovery, the direction of such cure and for
the first
time in medical history defined what is suppression of disease and
the
nature and direction of suppression.

Homeopathy, also for the first time took into account the whole state
of suffering
of the patient for the purpose of therapy. The visible( objective)
pain
and the suffering as explained by the sufferer( subjective) were
taken
and the sum- the totality- was the essence of the disease.

Where, in all the above statements the limits science transgressed ?
Only the observed, repeatedly verified symptoms of artificial illness
produced by a drug on healthy person go to make the materia medica.
Is this
knowledge, gathered by observation of factual experiments not
regarded by
somenone as science ?

The further knowledge gained by homeopathic scientist include the
concept of
chronic diseases and their classification into miasms. Another was
the
concept of constitutions which again resulted from the sensitivity if
an
individual to particular drugs. These are inferences gained from
facts.

Once, when someone questioned Prabhupada, the founder of ISKCON, how
to
believe the spirit when one could not see it, pat came his reply. What
you call as your mind and written thousands of volumes on it and
created a
study - Psychiatry- for it, which you could neither see nor feel, why
don't
you accept the existence of the spirit ?

If the dynamic action of Homeo remedies can not be seen by the eye,
there are
other avenues thru which you can perceive their action. Experiments-
observation-
inference. Homeopathy is about the same. It is the purest of pure
sciences.

Any legislation against such well grounded truths will not hold in a
court of
law. When the accuser himself is an accused, there is no case. It is
all born
out of a fear of existence among the Dominant medical community at
the sudden
re emergence of homeopathy in the last decade.

Regards
J.venkatasubramanian

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "niki_nitu" wrote:
scientificity
infinite
point
that

As I understand it, allopathy rarely cures, it usually just palliates.
In terms of 'scientific' explanations, I'm trying to find time to
explore the work by French physicist Roland Conte and another whose
name I have forgotten (sorry) who are published already on the
subject of high dilution etc (available from some bookshops, Amazon
etc). They have been studying the effects of high dilution of
homeopathic remedies and of succussion. Their studies prompted them
to come up with some new equations/theories and they developed
the "white hole" theory (as opposed to black hole). They sent a copy
of their manuscript to Steven Hawkings who (hope this is correct) was
so excited published a new book of his own on the subject before
Roland et al published theirs.
As someone pointed out (Shannon?), there other energy theories that
we utilise daily without understanding completely and this is one of
them. I do believe that there is further explanation in the energy
field (pun intended). Acupuncture stimulates the body's energy
(vital force, defence mechanism etc?) to encourage it to heal
itself. As a young person growing up I could see lots of "naturally"
occurring diseases and couldn't believe that there wasn't also a cure
for each one naturally occurring on this planet. Now I have
discovered that there is - homeopathy! You use the 'energy' of a
remedy specific to your totality to stimulate your energy system to
cure itself. You find certain diseases tend to occur in only certain
parts of the world (less so these days), but if you look closely, you
will find a plant/animal/mineral indigenous to that area that has
been used to cure/alleviate that disease. I don't think these are
accidents. If we listen to nature more instead of thinking we need
to improve on nature all the time we might do a lot better.
Regards,
Elizabeth