Minutus

I've had this question for a while, but suddenly I need an answer. I've had two patients this week who clearly need Silica, and both have long-standing implanted metal parts -- one dental implants and the other a plate replacing part of her skull after an accident.

I seem to remember reading someplace that once an implanted item has "matured" and is no longer a raw surgery, Sil would not cause it to be expelled. But does anyone have any experience with this??? I'd sure appreciate some help with this one.

Thanks.

Rosemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Rosemary,

I have no experience with it, but Sheilagh Creasey said, in a seminar some
years ago, that she has had no such problems, and if the symptoms of the
case call for silica, she will give silica.

She also talked about a few cases (not even sure if they had silica) where
shrapnel and whatnot was expelled, completely unexpectedly, and said that in
such cases the body did what was *needed*, and she had never seen an
expelled object to take a dangerous path, or cause any problems whatsoever.
(And, again, that she had never seen an "implant" of any type be expelled.)

Just putting that forth, but eager to hear if there have been experiences to
the contrary. (Starting out slow and low, tho, wouldn't go amiss, I'd
think...)

Shannon
on 12/11/02 8:02 PM, Rosemary Hyde at rosemaryhyde@mindspring.com wrote:

Thanks, Patti and Shannon. Patti, your experience follows what I would
think should happen -- that the implants, having been "assimilated" as body
parts would no longer be perceived by the vital force as foreign objects
that need expelling, once the surgical healing has occurred thoroughly. And
it's encouraging to know that a luminary such as Sheilagh Creasey had
addressed the issue reassuringly. Actually, I did start "low and slow," as
Shannon suggested, and then, in one of those awful middle of the night
moments, awoke thinking "If the remedy is going to act on a purely physical
level, it would be in a low potency. -- Oh, no!" One of the patients needed
treatment right away, and I gave her Sil 6c while waiting to get some
confirmation about being able to use Sil where implants existed. Based on
these two responses, I'll stop obsessing about it. Any other experiences
would still be interesting to hear, of course.

Thanks!!

Rosemary

Dear Rosemary, don't want to put any gloom and doom onto this but I know of
a case (not mine though) with silicon breast implants that began leaking
after taking Silicea.

It is an 'interesting' dilemna that's for sure! )

Best wishes,

Joy
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Hi, Joy.

Interesting. OK, let's pursue the dilemma another step forward. If one
can't use Sil where it's indicated because of implants of some sort, does
that mean we can't treat that person homeopathically? Exactly what does one
do instead of the indicated remedy? I suspect this issue may happen more
frequently than one might initially suppose, because of the prevalence now
of various implants, especially as people get older (lenses replacing
cataracts, dental implants, joint replacements, heart valve
replacements.........) .

Rosemary

Yes.
If the implant is integrated in the body's physiology and working
properly there is absolutely no risk.
If the implant is not integrated and considered as a foreign body, it is
anyway causing problems and on its way to be eliminated; then Silica
MIGHT hasten the process.

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".

Just to add from my early experience:

During my study years my mentor showed us a case where a woman was given
Silica 6X repeatedly (not in high potency) and a tube that was placed
years before in her Eustacean tubes just came popping out.... The woman
'forgot' to mention it to the Homeopath, and the Silica was given for
some dental problem and there had great results.

For what it's worth,

Sara

Joy Lucas wrote:

Dear Folks,
Thoughts only:
=======
The dilemma I have envisioned (but not yet seen or heard of) is in a case where eye crystalline lens(es) had been replaced surgically because of cataracts (ie artificial lenses), and pt needs Silica, for example (a reasonable-to-expect situation since Sil should be well represented in cases of cataract):

EYES; CATARACT, opacity of lens (K236, G198): acon., agar., alumn., am-c., am-m., anac., anag., ang., ant-t., apis, arg-i., arn., ars., aur., bani-c., bar-c., bar-s., bell., bov., bry., CALC, CALC-F, calc-p., calc-s., calc-sil., cann-s., caps., carb-an., CAUST, chel., chim., chin., chlorpr., cholin., cina, cine., cocc., coch., colch., coloc., con., croc., dig., digin., dulc., euph., euphr., graph., hed., hep., hyos., ign., iod., jab., kali-c., kali-m., kali-s., kali-sil., kreos., lac-c., led., lepro., lyc., MAG-C, mang., merc., naphtin., nat-c., nat-m., nat-s., nit-ac., op.,
parathyr., phos., platan., plb., podo., psor., puls., quas., rhus-t., ruta, sac-alb., sant., sarr., sars., sec., seneg., sep., SIL., spig., stann., staph., stram., sulfa., SULPH., tarax., tell., thiosin., thuj., verat., x-ray, zinc., zinc-p.

and many will have had lens implants. The possibility for problems comes up, at least as a question:

GENERALITIES; FOREIGN body sensation; expulsion of fishbones, needles, splinters, to promote: anag., hep., lob., sil.

=======
I read about a case (I think in Homeopathy Today) many yrs ago where a man had inguinal hernia surgery, developed a cold during convalescence (almost immediately after surgery), was given hepar as an acute remedy by a family member homeopath, and the operation had to be repeated because the internal sutures had all come out. So this is a situation where the wound was still fresh. Inguinal hernia surgery obviously leaves sutures in place on the inguinal ring. We would probably have heard about it if suture expulsion occurring long after the operation happened frequently,
since there are probably enough people out there who have permanent internal sutures somewhere in their body (that they would notice failing) who have taken Hep or Sil (or even Lobelia herbally) as chronic remedies. But it could be a problem, as per this case, in "fresh" cases of surgery.
=======
Another case is in the classical literature somewhere (can't find it now) where a civil war veteran (after some many years) was treated homeopathically, given sil and a bullet fragment migrated from the lung out to the skin in the same general trajectory in which it had entered. The migration was measured to be some long distance, (something like 6 inches or more, as I recall). "VF" is capable of remarkable feats. This was many years after the entry of the bullet, but, it being lodged in lung tissue, may have been quite an irritant, (although as I recall (imperfectly), the
presence of the bullet may not have even been the presenting complaint, or even realized by pt to be present). So this could be a situation where the object was probably an irritant to the "VF" entity (this could be equivalent to the Theosophist's "etheric double" which maintains a virtual conception of perfect order and morphology as an energetic version of the physical manifestation of the body). A certain irritant lodged in a certain constitution, which has not been "walled off" or incorporated "permanently" could thus be expelled, even a long way from the body's surface,
because it has been recognized by the "VF" as impeding the maintenance of manifestation of the "perfect" energetic template.

=======
A case of *silicone* breast implants being rejected in a person receiving Silica is an important example, but the fact that the foreign substance is chemically allied to the remedy brings in another mechanism (moving toward isopathy-(although silicone (organic matrix) and silica (inorganic) are in fact different, they could be said to be closely allied)). Isopathy is at least anecdotally known to stimulate excretion of its "idem" (an effect touted in using tautopathy for iatrogenesis or NBWS poisoning). So this has another layer of possibility beyond expulsion of *any* foreign
object, such as the lead bullet in the preceding example, and makes silica rem/silicone implants not a "pure" example of the question at hand, although nonetheless important! (as *silicone* implants are common in probably a whole generation of women, a population of whom require Silica as a chronic remedy).

=======
The above examples are in no way intended to make Rosemary or anyone else feel uneasy (this type of situation remains a question, the above does not answer it). But there may be situations in which past artificial interventions make the decision to proceed with a remedy difficult. Creasy's words are reassuring. Maybe it all depends on how irritating; or fresh; the foreign object is in a particular case... or perhaps as well on matters of an "imponderable" nature regarding the "intent" of the "VF" of an individual. In cases where the implant is replacing something vital to
life (heart valve) or important (eye lens, skull plate etc); how "intelligent" is the "VF" to know what is *currently* "foreign" and what is not?

One related question is how much has the common rejection reaction of the body necessitated careful selection of materials used in some of these vital implants to minimize rejection? (Although it is doubtful this was any consideration in the case of silicone breast implants, which haven't done too well----and when silica is the remedy, as discussed there may be some effect also by quasi-isopathic effect, whether or not Sil is the correct simillimum in the case). But heart valves may be so inert (some kind of plastic no doubt) as to be at least chemically (if not otherwise)
somewhat "invisible" to the "VF". The eye lens, being an acrylic plastic (synthetic organic, but still organic) matrix which is thus not *completely* different than what it replaced, and also mostly inert, may also be not much of an issue for the "VF", but this is speculation.

Natural Lens Composition: type IV collagen, proteoglycans, laminin, crystallin protein fibers, etc (anybody know if there is a particular element involved in eye lens tissue biochemistry?)

Artificial implant lenses: acrylic PMMA and other synthetics

I don't know much about dental implants or how they might be rejected. If they are really mostly of the teeth instead of implanted in the mandibular bones, it would seem that they might be less of a worry. Metallic plates and pins would seem to be quite "foreign", and maybe not chemically inert, and these are quite common. Saw someone (but not needing one of the expulsive remedies) with a rod in her spine (was used to treat severe scoliosis, maybe still is used?).

Another question/possibility: does the presentation of the dilemma (obvious artificial implant and apparent need for one of these expulsive remedies) mean that there may be a more accurate remedy in the particular case, a remedy which is not known for its capability for expulsion? (if one waxes toward considering the "fate" operating in the situation which created the meeting of client and homeopath in the first place).

Rosemary's question is an important one*. It can probably only be answered by empirical data from cases.

*(repeated below along with the other posts in discussion --although I missed getting Patti's).
Best to All

-A

===========================================
Rosemary wrote:
Hi, Joy.

Interesting. OK, let's pursue the dilemma another step forward. If one
can't use Sil where it's indicated because of implants of some sort, does
that mean we can't treat that person homeopathically? Exactly what does one
do instead of the indicated remedy? I suspect this issue may happen more
frequently than one might initially suppose, because of the prevalence now
of various implants, especially as people get older (lenses replacing
cataracts, dental implants, joint replacements, heart valve
replacements.........) .

Rosemary

Joy Lucas wrote:
Shannon wrote:
Hi Rosemary,

I have no experience with it, but Sheilagh Creasey said, in a seminar some
years ago, that she has had no such problems, and if the symptoms of the
case call for silica, she will give silica.

She also talked about a few cases (not even sure if they had silica) where
shrapnel and whatnot was expelled, completely unexpectedly, and said that in
such cases the body did what was *needed*, and she had never seen an
expelled object to take a dangerous path, or cause any problems whatsoever.
(And, again, that she had never seen an "implant" of any type be expelled.)

Just putting that forth, but eager to hear if there have been experiences to
the contrary. (Starting out slow and low, tho, wouldn't go amiss, I'd
think...)

Shannon
Rosemary wrote:
I've had this question for a while, but suddenly I need an answer. I've had two patients this
week who clearly need Silica, and both have long-standing implanted metal parts -- one dental
implants and the other a plate replacing part of her skull after an accident.

I seem to remember reading someplace that once an implanted item has "matured" and is no longer a
raw surgery, Sil would not cause it to be expelled. But does anyone have any experience with
this??? I'd sure appreciate some help with this one.

Thanks.

Rosemary

Regarding the example of having a cold after the surgery: probably, the
patient was coughing and ruptured the fresh repair; in that case the
sutures become a foreign body that has to be eliminated.

We have to give some credit to our Lebenskraft, it is certainly not a
brute force acting in a yes/no manner.
If the implant, whatever it is, is favourable to life and procures
advantages, a return to a more normal physiology, it will be assimilated
as part of the body; if it is, or becomes, a nuisance, it will be
recognised as such and either encapsulated (segregated) or rejected. The
remedies have only the power to accelerate, to enhance that mechanism.

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".

Hi Sara,

This is interesting!
Was the tube something that was still needed, and did its expulsion present
a problem, or was it just a "left-over"?

Shannon
on 12/12/02 3:22 PM, Sara Klein Ridgley PhD at homeopathy@safire.net wrote: