Minutus

Please see

http://psymag.tripod.com/issue_2/2_shame.htm

http://www.rense.com/general32/randi.htm

http://survivalscience.50megs.com/torandi.htm
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 7:18 PM -0800 11/9/04, vcrepair@yahoo.com wrote:

My my, the crazed Randi is at it again!
It means it is made according the Homeopathic Pharmacopoeia of the
USA and, as such, has an FDA product registration number
Well... thems that takes it are doing OK.
Why waste their time with someone who is ignorant of homeopathy?

JW

Dear Colleagues

There is none so blind as those that do not want to see and none so deaf as
those who do not want to hear.

I think the only way to challenge such people is through a personal
experience.

One cannot say to them let us treat you, because one is not sure of their
honesty.

However, one can challenge them to take part in a proving - this is what I
did to the columnist of The Guardian and in the end he backed-off without
taking part in the reproving and has not said anything adverse about
homoeopathy since.

So if you think you can get him interested in taking part in a reproving of
some painful remedy, then I would look forward to it.

As far as the Horizon prog is concerned, I am sure that some one swapped the
samples (as probably Randi did to discredit Jacques Beneviste in the first
Nature investigation). What the programme did show was that half of the
potentised WATER samples showed an UNEXPECTED property against the test
materials (basophiles?) as did HALF of the test material. No one raised
this issue despite the fact that I immediately wrote to the programme to say
hey you are showing an unexpected reaction, there is a need to double check.

Rgds
Soroush
Message: 14
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:12:41 -0800 (PST)
From: "vcrepair@yahoo.com"
Subject: James Randi skeptical of homeopathy

I found this on James Randi page www.randi.org
where he is skeptical of homeopathy. James Randi
offers a million dollar prize for proof of the
paranormal. Could someone win that prize and prove
homeopathy?

www.randi.org February 20 2004
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Barbara

I am Soroush and not Finrod - Finrod is my company's name!

I do not know how to do what you are asking me to do. Can you help me with
it?

Rgds
Soroush

Message: 14
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 15:57:54 +0000 (GMT)
From: Barbara Hamilton
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1807

Hi Finrod,

Why don't you post this onto Google, or any search engine site. I'm not
technologically-minded, but if Randi can get his 'quackbusting' org. so
close to the top of the list if you type in "homeopathy" on Google, then
surely someone on this list can give the other side of the story by getting
this as high or preferably higher than number six on the list of hits.
ABCHomeopathy have managed it. How about it Finrod? Anyone ?

Best wishes, Barbara

Message: 18
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:04:24 -0000
From: "Finrod"
Subject: James Randi

Dear Colleagues

There is none so blind as those that do not want to see and none so deaf as
those who do not want to hear.

I think the only way to challenge such people is through a personal
experience.

One cannot say to them let us treat you, because one is not sure of their
honesty.

However, one can challenge them to take part in a proving - this is what I
did to the columnist of The Guardian and in the end he backed-off without
taking part in the reproving and has not said anything adverse about
homoeopathy since.

So if you think you can get him interested in taking part in a reproving of
some painful remedy, then I would look forward to it.

As far as the Horizon prog is concerned, I am sure that some one swapped the
samples (as probably Randi did to discredit Jacques Beneviste in the first
Nature investigation). What the programme did show was that half of the
potentised WATER samples showed an UNEXPECTED property against the test
materials (basophiles?) as did HALF of the test material.

No one raised this issue despite the fact that I immediately wrote to the
programme to say hey you are showing an unexpected reaction, there is a need
to double check.

Rgds
Soroush
Message: 14
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:12:41 -0800 (PST)
From: "vcrepair@yahoo.com"
Subject: James Randi skeptical of homeopathy

I found this on James Randi page www.randi.org where he is skeptical of
homeopathy. James Randi offers a million dollar prize for proof of the
paranormal. Could someone win that prize and prove homeopathy?

www.randi.org February 20 2004
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear All
Pls see the article below.
Randi has offered $1M to any one who can show that Homeopathy works - yet always escapes the challenge or does a special trick!
James Randi was involved in the 'debunking' of Jacque Beneviste' (JB) work which had shown the Homeopathic effect. The experiment was that diluted histamine was added to basophiles and the result of the effect on the basophiles could be seen under a microscope.
JB's work was first published in Nature in late 1980's and then Nature sent James Randi with another guy (A detective of scientific fraud) to JB's lab for them to repeat the experiment. Randi did the labelling in the double blind test and the results came out as a confused mess. JB was discredited!
Many years later the experiment was successfully repeated by Prof Madeleine Ennis at Belfast University and many other labs.
BBC2's Horizon got to know about this and decided that they would commission a repeat. But with Randi's involvement with the programme, they did not keep to Prof Ennis's protocols for doing the experiment. And gain they did a double blind exercise where the samples were relabelled before being sent for evaluation. They serially diluted and succussed a vial of histamine and a vial of water as control. They went to C30 dilutions if I am not mistaken.
They applied these dilutions to the basophiles, and sent the results to two labs for examination and evaluation. Again the results came out as a hutch potch and Horizon declared that homeopathy does not work.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... -work.html
However, I immediately noticed something strange. The evaluation results from both labs had shown that half the water 'labelled' samples had affected the basophiles - This being a totally nonsensical result (if true every time we drank water we would kill our white blood cells and then die of no immunity) I wrote immediately to the editors of the programme and never got the response. I even contacted the statistics expert of the program and he did not properly answer the question either.
So in my view, both times through sleight of hand and mislabelling, they acted dishonestly to disprove homeopathy.
Rgds

Soroush
From: andrew.sikorski

Someone questioning the unquestionable

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film ... nkers.html

Dear Soroush,

I agree with your observations. The experiment was faulty.

There is yet another fault in the "experiment",the content all test tubes were mixed using a whirly mixer, the homeopathic one were not pounded. As you know, the process of pounding, is how remedies are make, they are not made using a whirly mixer. This aspect is important energetically.
So, no wonder that they results are not to be trusted.

Thank you for all your great work
Lucy
Lucy De Pieri PhD DCH

Soroush,

Where did you read the study results, showing that half of the samples gave the looked-for effect?

Shannon

Skeptopaths are a desperate lot. They get their sense of security from a reality that they can hit with a hammer, and since homeopathy doesn't fit that paradigm, they will try anything to maintain their paradigm as the dominant paradigm.

Roger Bird
________________________________

To: finrod@finrod.co.uk
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 10:32:41 +0000
Subject: [Minutus] James Randi
Dear All
Pls see the article below.
Randi has offered $1M to any one who can show that Homeopathy works - yet always escapes the challenge or does a special trick!
James Randi was involved in the 'debunking' of Jacque Beneviste' (JB) work which had shown the Homeopathic effect. The experiment was that diluted histamine was added to basophiles and the result of the effect on the basophiles could be seen under a microscope.
JB's work was first published in Nature in late 1980's and then Nature sent James Randi with another guy (A detective of scientific fraud) to JB's lab for them to repeat the experiment. Randi did the labelling in the double blind test and the results came out as a confused mess. JB was discredited!
Many years later the experiment was successfully repeated by Prof Madeleine Ennis at Belfast University and many other labs.
BBC2's Horizon got to know about this and decided that they would commission a repeat. But with Randi's involvement with the programme, they did not keep to Prof Ennis's protocols for doing the experiment. And gain they did a double blind exercise where the samples were relabelled before being sent for evaluation. They serially diluted and succussed a vial of histamine and a vial of water as control. They went to C30 dilutions if I am not mistaken.
They applied these dilutions to the basophiles, and sent the results to two labs for examination and evaluation. Again the results came out as a hutch potch and Horizon declared that homeopathy does not work.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... -work.html
However, I immediately noticed something strange. The evaluation results from both labs had shown that half the water 'labelled' samples had affected the basophiles - This being a totally nonsensical result (if true every time we drank water we would kill our white blood cells and then die of no immunity) I wrote immediately to the editors of the programme and never got the response. I even contacted the statistics expert of the program and he did not properly answer the question either.
So in my view, both times through sleight of hand and mislabelling, they acted dishonestly to disprove homeopathy.
Rgds

Soroush
From: andrew.sikorski

Someone questioning the unquestionable
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film ... nkers.html

Friends,

James Randi is a magician, that is, he is a master of deception and misdirection.

Many people may remember that the time that homeopathy (and me!) were featured on the very popular American TV news show called 20/20. You can read about the "junk science" study that they conducted. James Randi was informed about this junk science study, but he has never complained about it...and in fact, he TOTALLY supported this junk science study of homeopathy.

A series of articles about this TV show and its study is here:
http://www.homeopathic.com/Articles/Media_reports

The TV show said that it was replicating the research of Professor M. Ennis, but here's a letter from Ennis that clearly states that this "study" was NOT her study, but their own...and their own study had some extremely serious flaws:
http://www.homeopathic.com/Articles/Med ... fic_d.html

Here's of summary about what was "right" about this TV show and what was "wrong":
http://www.homeopathic.com/Articles/Med ... _John.html
--Dana Ullman, MPH, CCH
www.homeopathic.com

I believe the biggest problem is the attitude of mind that does not WANT to know the truth but rather wants to prove a pre-determined result. This is currently a serious part of the problem with the acceptance of cold fusion. This kind of attitude is not curious or exploratory or playful. It tries to prove what it already believes. But the skeptopaths, like James Randi, seem like they go beyond even this unscientific attitude. They seem freaked out and willing to lie and cheat in order to disprove homeopathy. This in itself is ill. I wonder how his afterlife is going to be, given all of the people that he is harming.

Roger Bird
________________________________

To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 06:10:24 -0700
Subject: Re: [Minutus] James Randi

Dear Soroush,

I agree with your observations. The experiment was faulty.

There is yet another fault in the "experiment",the content all test tubes were mixed using a whirly mixer, the homeopathic one were not pounded. As you know, the process of pounding, is how remedies are make, they are not made using a whirly mixer. This aspect is important energetically.
So, no wonder that they results are not to be trusted.

Thank you for all your great work
Lucy

Lucy De Pieri PhD DCH