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blocks to listening

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 3:32 pm
by Joy Lucas
When TAKING THE CASE be aware of these hinders:-

1) COMPARING - this makes it hard to listen because you are always trying to
assess who is cleverer, more competent, more emotionally healthy - you or
the client. You stop listening because you are too busy seeing if you
measure up.

2) MIND READING - the mind reader doesn't pay attention to what is being
said, in fact it is often distrusted. They are trying to work out what the
client is really thinking and feeling. The homeopaths notions of the other
person are often born out of intuitive hunches and vague misgivings.

3) REHEARSING - you don't have time to listen when you are rehearsing what
to say next. Your attention is on preparation and crafting of your next
comment. You have to look interested but your mind is going a mile a minute.

4) FILTERING - when you filter some things go in and a lot doesn't. You pay
only enough attention to see if somebody is angry or unhappy or if you are
in emotional danger. Once assured that the communication contains none of
these things you let your mind wander.

5) JUDGING - if you pre-judge someone as stupid, neurotic or unqualified you
don't pay enough attention to what they say. Any form of prejudice is a
judgement. You have already written them off. A basic rule of listening is
that judgements, if necessary, should only be made after you have heard and
evaluated the content of the message.

6) DREAMING - you are only half listening and something the client says
triggers a private train of thought. Boredom and anxiety can lead one to
start dreaming - a big effort is needed sometimes to stay tuned in to what
the client is telling you. Dreaming can mean a lack of commitment.

7) IDENTIFYING - you take everything the client tells you and refer it back
to your own experience. Everything you hear reminds you of something you
have felt, done or suffered, so there is no real time to hear or get to know
what the client is telling you.

8) ADVISING - you are a great problem solver, ready with help and
suggestions. You don't have to hear more than a few sentences before you
begin searching for the right advice. It is a form of repellent, preventing
you to getting to the core of the story being told.

9) SPARRING - this has you arguing and debating with your client who never
feels as though they are being heard because you are too quick to disagree.
You take strong stands and are very clear about your beliefs and
preferences, which hinders the progress of the consultation.

10) BEING RIGHT - you will go to any lengths to avoid being wrong, you
cannot listen to criticism, you cannot be corrected and you cannot take
suggestions to change. Since you won't acknowledge your mistakes you keep
making them. Frequent wrong prescriptions are an indication of this.

11) DERAILING - this is accomplished by suddenly changing the subject, you
derail the conversation when you get bored or uncomfortable with a topic, or
you manage to joke it off. This can be very disconcerting to a client who
might then feel alienated.

12) PLACATING - you want to be nice, to be loved and appreciated by your
clients, so you agree with everything.

13) BOMBARDING - you impose unnecessary methods or skills onto your client
to impress them - examining them, taking blood pressure, using fancy medical
equipment, etc. You want your client to believe you are more practised that
what you really are, a way of overcoming an actual lack of confidence or a
show of arrogance.

Hopefully useful,

best wishes, Joy Lucas

Re: blocks to listening

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 4:47 pm
by Bob Needham
Hi Joy and all on this Thread of thought:

Joy your absolutely correct in what you've been saying. I spent several
years in sales before the current lifetime as a homeopath. The one thing
that was constantly stressed in sales was KEEP IT SIMPLE. And that's the
beauty and truth in properly practiced homeopathy. There is no
guess-o-pathy, no intello-pathy (my term) on the diagnosis of the disorder-
only to discover your diagnosis was flawed, no clutter of technical
scientific gaggits & tools that razzal dazzal the patient. [and Iam not
against science I have 2 undergrad degrees in biochem with post grad
credits.] Keep in mind that 50% of what was taught as gospal in Med School
30-35 yrs ago is now proven completely wrong. I see similar ratios in
science as well, as the human animal continues to struggle with it's limited
understanding of the vastness of the universal intellegence. The same
ratios no doubt apply today. But the BEAUTY and TRUTH of HOMEOPATHY is it is
universal and true, in that when the symptoms are taken properly we are
observing the after math of the disorder as expressed by the patient. There
is no need for disease diagnosis of disease and scientific instrumentation,
which have so many inherent and subjective variations within themselves that
can lead on to error. The event has already occurred and we are left to see
the results, not second guessing it . Homeopathy is practiced properly is a
PURE science based on the simplicity of objective FACT. So if we follow
Joy's 13 Laws of listening we then can make an appropriate remedy selection
based on this objective information . Unfortunately proper listening can
be one of the hardest things for all of us to do.

Bob

Re: blocks to listening

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 11:34 pm
by Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD
How many times did I have a patient coming in with acute chest pains
where a clinical examination and an ECG helped me telling the difference
between a myocardial infarct needing ICU and a simple problem.......

How many times did I have a patient with acute abdominal pains where a
proper clinical examination directed the patient either towards the
operating room or receiving a few sugar pills......

How many times did I examine a chronically swollen articulation, send
for X Ray a find there was a local cancer and not arthritis.....

By neglecting a proper physical examination and the intelligent use of
complementary tests, if you are entitled to use them, you are playing
with fire and putting the patient's lives at risk.

It does not matter what the local laws and regulations are (yes it
matters but not for this discussion), we are health practitioners who
consider the patient as a whole, so the whole of the patient (no pun
intended) has to be examined with whatever means we can use; and it is
our duty to keep a high index of suspicion for serious pathology we
might want to refer to non-homeopaths, and our duty to get educated in
order to be able to, if not properly diagnose, at least suspect those
pathologies and refer.

Primum non nocere supersedes any other law...........

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".

Re: blocks to listening

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2002 4:22 am
by Bob Needham
Yes I couldn't agree more I should have put more of a slant in my tone
towards the more fringe technologies used by many non convential med people.
There are proven medical technologies and protocols that I believe we all
respect and would not deny, and should insist that a patient use.

Bob

Re: blocks to listening

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2002 2:07 pm
by Nancy Siciliana
Hi Joy,

Thank you so much for this excellent post on barriers to listening. And
thank you, as well, for all the wonderfully informative writing you've
contributed to the list over time.

Please don't let a little insecurity, arrogance, and criticism stop you from
sharing your knowledge. Your writing is not "flowery" and "flowing" (Dave
Hartley should know these are the traditional, masculinist put-downs
historically employed to demean the writing of women! Not very original,
unfortunately, and quite sexist). You write clearly and effectively, with
considerable artistry. Not only is what you write a pleasure to read, it
communicates what you know very well. I've learned a great deal from your
contributions, and I'm grateful to be able to have access to your ideas in
this way.

I don't why it is Dave feels the need to "police" the activity on this
mailing list, but I do hope you won't take his criticisms to heart.
Criticism is just one person's opinion, that's all. There are many others
who don't share his opinion.
Nancy Siciliana
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
nasiciliana@hotmail.com
"Sit down before fact like a little child, and be prepared to give up every
preconceived notion, follow humbly wherever and to whatever abyss nature
leads, or you will learn nothing"--Aldous Huxley

Re: blocks to listening

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:32 pm
by isali
You put into words better than I the attitude which should be manifest by
all physicians, in all fields of practice. It is a shift in perspective
from a paradigm applied by a trained physician, to that of a physician who
is an unprejudiced observer, in service to a patient, suffering a morbid
condition.

All paradigms are born from their respective cultures, which manifest some
form of philosophical foundation. Homeopathy will never find pervasive
presence and acceptance until it meshes with some degree of intermingling
with other systems and the allopathic paradigm in particular. There is no
lessening of value of homeopathy in doing so. There is an enrichment in
recognising limits, because that is the basis from which we reach beyond our
view of things to seek out the thinking of others, and they don't have to be
titled.

Thank you for the reminder,

Primum non nocere supersedes any other law...........

Re: blocks to listening

Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2002 1:05 am
by Dave Hartley
Great, now I'm a sexist, executing masculinist putdowns.
Kee-rist, get a grip!

1. criticism of intellectual work is and should be EXPECTED as part of
scientific inquiry.

2. insecurity might be DEFINED as a tendency to take personal insult instead
of looking at intellectual content.

3. arrogance is also in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I thought Joy's
GAS comments to be incredibly arrogant, as is her choice to become all huffy
when questioned about her "remedy writeup." Humility and scientific spirit
of inquiry would simply answer questions- arrogance would seek to paint the
questioner as some social deviant for having the nerve to question.

4. now that we have the feminist PC police in position, we should all feel
safer, I'm sure.

Now, come on back down to planet Earth, and see if you can get into a
mindset (or at least try to understand the possiblity) where scientific
inquiry & challenging of intellectual points isn't intimately related to
your sexual organs.

I hope you'll excuse my saying so, but I think it (what is a good way to say
this without being further accused...)
not very realistic to apply feminist paranoia in a text-based forum where it
should be checked at the door... but then some of us seem to bear such
crosses, and woe be unto him who interferes with a person and her chosen
self flagellation.

Regarding the topic, Joy's "barriers to listening" was good reading.
Sometimes we all seem to be capable of being blind to our own shadows.

regards,

Dave Hartley
www.Mr-Notebook.com
www.localcomputermart.com/dave
Seattle, WA 425.820.7443
Asheville, NC 828.285.0240

Re: blocks to listening

Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2002 5:08 am
by Dave Hartley
A very significant number of homeopaths prior to the Flexner Report were
Dr.'s
Today, a Dr. takes immense "professional risk" in using homeopathy.
Yesterday's homeopathic medical schools were killed to make way for todays
pharmceutical medical fortunes.. a phenomenal success story in $$, at tragic
cost in suffering.

There's a good read on the Flexner report, homeopathy, & the AMA here
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/medical.html
Proving the penultimate hypocrisy of the pharmaceutical industry at it's
foundations, one of it's prime industry captains, JOHN D. ROCKEFELLER is
quoted as having thought that Homeopathy is a "progressive and aggressive
step in medicine."
-and correspondingly he & his family were treated by homeopathy

Some interesting facts & figures & quotes on homeopathy here
http://www.lyghtforce.com/King_bio/research.htm

regards,

Dave Hartley
www.Mr-Notebook.com
www.localcomputermart.com/dave
Seattle, WA 425.820.7443
Asheville, NC 828.285.0240