Minutus

Hello Friends,

My husband is active in Veterans organizations, so I come in
contact with people from World War II, Korea, Viet Nam, as well as the
recent unrest. These former combat veterans are carying a lot of post
traumatic stress about their war experiences.
This has to be a universal problem, so we all must be coming across
people with these problems.
Most of them will not 'talk about it'. Which gives me the impression it
is a type of dual mindedness. They have whole lives and 'separate
pathologies', then up come these memories to be dealt with.

I need a little help here, and perhaps someone can give me some
suggestions.

Yesterday we had our countries
'Forth of July' which celebrates the United States's becoming a free
nation.
This is when the 'old soldiers' come out, they march, meet their friends
and the 'old war wounds' come forward.

Nightmares, tears, memories of comrads who died in combat, war atrocities
all seem to be replayed.

While I know, 'each case is different', I am looking for two things.
Suggestions on how to handle these kinds of cases, and posology thoughts.

I would love to hear about a couple of successful cases so I would have
an idea of what to expect as far as pace and case management.

For instance I have a decent idea of what I would expect to see with
asthma, allergies, rheumatic disorders, etc.
But this is a different realm from my experiences, what is the prognosis
of these mostly 'mental' disorders, particularily ones that are so
suppressed, and for many years? (From the few Vets I have seen, the
memories seem to return more frequently with age or is homeo treatment
bringing it out?) Is it sufficient to treat knowing it is there, or
must I wait until the memories come forward?
Some of my 'pretty successful' cases have this underlying post traumatic
stress that comes forward at certain times that stimulate these memories.

One former combat veteran who lost his wife to cancer (not my client)
told me he thought 'God was punishing him for what he did in the
war.'.(and this man had been drafted - as if he had a choice). One
person told me, "you know I am insane. No one can be in a war zone and
come out sane, we are all insane. We are told to go out, behave
ourselves, we collect our pensions and, if we go off the deep end they
will put us in a hospital."

I also need some suggestions on a field of rubrics or short list of
remedies known to address some of these issues - many, many years after
the fact.

How high must I go to effective put an end to something that has
haunted a person intermittently for 60 years? Is this a 'one sided
disease'? Most of these people have whole lives that hardly seem to
reflect the horrors they have lived through. So in treatment for X
condition, which appears to be going well, then up comes 'the war
experience' - almost a whole new set of symptoms (cursing, drug or
alcohol use, withdrawl, etc, etc.) Must I crawl up with the potency? I
am more a low dose, LM prescriber, and my thoughts are towards the 1M,
10M and CM potencies and I don't have much experience with the higher end
of this scale. With physical pathology I would crawl up slowly, with
mental can I go high from the beginning? (I don't anticipate most of
these people moving up slowly, I can see handing them one dry dose and
telling them to contact me if it happens again.

I am probably in a postition to work with dozens of people in this
situation, rather than experiment on them, I would prefer to go on more
solid ground.

Is this a stuatation where alternation of remedies might be used?
X remedy which covers the sx totality of their daily activities and then
Y remedy for when this 'stuff' comes up? Or am I looking too
superficially (as I said, most will not discuss it, so I am rarely privy
to any of their actual experiences.) When someone wakes with fear or
panic (the nightmares) for instance, would a 10M of Aconite be out of
place if the war was 60 years ago?

What is the course of 'cure' I should be seeing?
Appreciate any suggestions, especially those on dose and frequency.

Warmly, Maria

ps. Sorry if I rambled a bit, my 20 month old grandbaby has been helping
me with this letter. (did some typing, I think I fixed it) and has been
demanding my attention.

Hi, Maria.

I'll be interested to see what people say. I've encountered this too.
Usually, there is physical pathology or at least symptoms that replace or
express the suppressed emotional baggage -- alternation between emotional
and physical symptoms is often there. I think you're right about the mental
anguish resurfacing in nightmares, anxiety, feelings of guilt, etc... as
these people get older. As always, taking the case is central. Finding the
remedy that represents the totality can bring good progress in many severe
mental/emotional problems, although the couple of veterans I've dealt with
have been poor patients, in that they have observed poorly what happens to
them, and also they have covered up a lot of what they are really feeling
and suffering, putting on a false face of all-rightness. So that's been a
huge obstacle to cure. I've been able to help people heal from other kinds
of traumatic stress such as childhood abuse, so I know it's possible. I
think you're right, in general, too, about the dual identity or the lying
and hiding often being a component of such cases. I've seen Anacardium work
very well with a couple of cases where people had suffered abuse and yet
were completely unaware of their hidden feelings from that, carrying on and
believing they were perfectly happy, but with major physical symptoms.

I had another case of childhood abuse where the individual was very open and
very aware of his feelings, and Crot-c (rather than Stram,which seemed
indicated at first) was the curative remedy. In his case, the bulk of the
symptoms were mental/ emotional (rage, OCD, destructive impulses...).

Rosemary Hyde

Hi Rosemary,
Could you say what finally led you to crot-c, and what in the case
differentiated it from Stram?
Thanks!
Shannon
You wrote:

Hi,

Here are my thoughts on this but I don't have any experience with
such cases of PTSD.

I always pay attention to the exact wording of the patients
and try to work it out into its constituent elements that can
closely match the rubrics in the repertory. In RAJAN's words
every case is a delusion and this is what we have to find out.
For ex,. what your patient expresses here, can be taken to
mean in terms of the rubrics
"MIND - DELUSIONS - God - vengeance; he is the object of God's
MIND - DELUSIONS - crime - committed a crime; he had
MIND - DELUSIONS - criminal, he is a
MIND - DELUSIONS - forsaken; is"

Kali-br comes up a strong contender here. Of course you have to go
back to the MM to finally settle the smm.
The delusions chapter is a treasure house for us to hunt for
rubrics that match this type of expressions. Here the delusion
is that he is insane. Not all the patients have the same type
of delusion. It varies based on his most devastating traumatic
experience that got etched into his memory. Someone may
have hard time in forgetting his own acts of commission /
omission, like for example having abandoned his colleague
and escaped from the scene to save himself etc.,
In such cases, you may consider the rubric
"MIND - ANXIETY - conscience; anxiety of"
and if he is haunted in his dreams about this incident, you take
"MIND - ANXIETY - conscience; anxiety of - dreams; in"
lach.;1;j5 led.;1;j5
You may also consider the following

"MIND - DWELLS - past disagreeable occurrences, on
MIND - DWELLS - past disagreeable occurrences, on - frightful scene
of some mournful event of the past; tormented by a
MIND - THOUGHTS - persistent - unpleasant subjects, haunted by"

If you are not able to find under delusions, you may hunt for
a closely allied rubric under fears.
I prefer you not to have used this word alternation of
remedies because it means many things. Always you
have to match the state of the patient with your drug.
If after giving "x" remedy a totally different set of
symptoms come up that clearly call for a different
remedy, you have to give it and such a thing is not
called alternation of remedies.
The most likely pointers in such a case would be that the
remedy "y" bears a sort of acute/chronic/cyclic relationship
with the remedy "x'; or it may belong to a miasm that "x" is
not known to tackle in depth and potency depends on the
individual's state of susceptibility.Generally you need to
go high and my personal preference is to the dry dose
widely spaced apart as my experience with the split dose
is not that good.

We have 177 remedies in the synthesis for nightmares and acon
happens to be just one of them. So here again you have to choose
depending on the other pointers in the case.
hope this helps,
V.T.Yekkirala.
From: Maria Bohle
To: ;
Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 6:10 PM
Subject: [Minutus] Combat veterins - Post traumatic stress???

Hesitant thoughts on one point:

vtyekkirala wrote:

Maria wrote:
(snip)
I'm hesitant to assume that, just because he *says* "You know I am
insane", that it necessarily follows that *he believes* (has the
delusion) that he is insane. I do not think this necessarily follows.

One, at least here in the US, there is a ... argh, how to say it. Let's
say, a cultural thing among a certain generation, or at least parts of
it (and I'm one of that part of that generation). It was (and no doubt
for some still is) comforting during those *really insane* times, to on
occasion talk about being "crazy" in a way that is not what it seems.
E.g. I recall conversations among friends of mine where we would talk
about being "crazy", but what we really meant was that we felt different
from the (supposed) norm of the time--and proud of it!!!! And what we
*really* believed was that *they* were crazy, tho maybe we were still
waiting/hoping to be sure...

In today's world I hear the word "crazy" tossed around very casually,
and used in a way that really does not mean "insane". IMO this guy *is*
saying that something is wrong, and he's relating the "wrongness" to his
war experience. He's saying he has *not* made a peace with it, that he
needs help to bring something about it into line. But I would *not*
take it (without other support) to mean that he actually believes he is
insane.

At the moment, in my current underslept and over-occupied state, if I
try to go on more about that, I'll probably starting sounding and
feeling a bit crazy myself, LOL! Does this make sense to any of you
guys as it is? E.g., anyone else remember being a young adult during
the Vietnam War years (and the 60s-70s!), and how truly crazy the time
was, in so many ways...

For most of these folks (the vets, I mean) there wasn't much means to
"sort things out", to deal with the emotions, trauma, the horrible
things that they had seen, and perhaps done. And really, who wanted to
hear about it... Unless you were fortunate enough to be seeing a good
and supportive shrink, who could you unload it on??? The *situation* is
crazy.

I could no doubt go on, but I would just suggest, Don't take this
statement (or IMO *any other* single statement in a case) at face value.
Don't use this as sign of a "delusion" *unless* that delusion is
supported elsewhere in the case.

My final piece of sage advice would be to make no assumptions.
Maria, tho I heartily sympathize with your search for a window, a
starting point -- and I'm watching with interest to hear what's offered!
-- I really think you're kind of going to be thrown back at "Take the
case"... And if you feel the pt isn't giving you the whole story, or
you're not understanding, or etc., ask permission to talk with family
members or friends to help round it out.

Will Taylor somewhere (where???) had an interesting bit, talking about
how terrible trauma might not push someone outside of their "regular
constitutional" (anyone remember this? Can anyone find his quote?). He
gives example of a veteran suffering PTSD, showing a picture that at
first glance looks like Stram, then reviews how (in this hypothetical
case) the needed rx is actually the same as it was before the war --
Calcarea. He says (more or less), You know that famous Calc rubric,
about sad stories and horrible things affect him profoundly? Well, sad
stories and horrible things *did* affect him profoundly; and he still
needs Calc. Now I don't recall whether Will mentioned how you'd have
decided whether this guy needed Calc or Stram...

Best,
Shannon
Not all the patients have the same type

Hi Maria,
I want to second VTY's remark that you need to find out *which* rx they
need. Can they say what was the dominant emotion they took away from
the experiences, and what emotion comes back? Fear seems like a high
contender, e.g.

MIND; AILMENTS from; fright or fear (K49, SRI-18, G39): (4's): ACON., OP.,

(3's): Caust., Ign., Lyc., Nat-m., Ph-ac., Phos., Puls., Sil., Verat.,

(2's): apis, arg-n., art-v., aur., bell., bufo, coff., cupr., gels.,
glon., graph., hyos., hyper., kali-br., kali-p., lach., nux-v., petr.,
plat., rhus-t., sep., stram.,

(1's):act-sp., agar., anac., androc., arg., arn., ars., aur-m., bry.,
calc., calc-sil., camph., canth., carb-v., carbn-s., carc., cham., cic.,
cimic., cina, cocc., coloc., crot-h., hep., hyosin., iod., kali-c.,
lac-del., laur., lyss., mag-c., merc., morph., nat-c., nicc., nit-ac.,
nux-m., psor., querc-r., ran-b., sabad., samb., sec., spong., stann.,
staph., sulph., tarent., verb., vib., visc., zinc., zinc-p.
But as VTY said, this could vary, depending on their experience and
susceptibility. Maybe some other possibilities could be

MIND; AILMENTS from; grief, sorrow, care (K51, SRI-19, G40)
MIND; AILMENTS from; abuse
MIND; IDEALISTIC: caust., ign., lyc., plat.
MIND; AILMENTS from; anger, vexation (K2, SRI-13, G2)
MIND; AILMENTS from; bad news (K9, SRI-15, G8)
MIND; AILMENTS from; death; one death after another: ambr.
MIND; AILMENTS from; death; parents or friends, of (SRI-16): ambr.,
ars., calc., Caust., IGN., kali-br., lac-c., lac-h., lim-b-c., lyc.,
nit-ac., nux-v., plat., rhod., staph.

and the famous MIND; HORRIBLE things, sad stories affect her profoundly:
arg-n., ars., aur., aur-m., benz-ac., CALC., calc-ar., calc-s., cand-a.,
carb-v., carc., caust., cench., chin., Cic., coca, cocc., con.,
falco-p., ferr., gels., hep., ign., Iod., kali-c., lach., lap-c-b.,
lap-mar-c., lar-ar., lyc., manc., nat-c., nat-m., nit-ac., nux-v., op.,
ozone, phos., plat., prot., puls., sep., sil., staph., sulph., teucr., zinc.

When a person is unwilling to talk about something, sometimes it's
because the unresolved emotions etc. are such a "powder keg" that they
don't trust themselves to go into it. Maria, are you familiar with any
"peer counselling" techniques? I wonder if this might help you find
ways to give him (them) a place that is (feels!) "safe enough" to talk,
and help you give him a perspective that makes talking about it (plus
the definite possibility of "explosive emoting", tears, etc.) worth the
risk, methods to make it work better for him, etc. And an understanding
that if in the telling he *does* begin to cry, shake, whatever, it's
only part of the healing journey, and it's fine, there's light on the
other side... Is this stuff you're familiar with? I think it *ought*
to be standard part of instruction for homeopaths, but it sure wasn't in
my classes (at least not much).

Anyway, it seems you really do need to find out *what* his experience
is/was, somehow. Another possibility (maybe?)--ask if he would write or
draw something to help you understand what he has taken away with him
from the experience -- fear (of what)? rage (at whom/what)? grief (over
what)?

Shannon

Hi,

I recall that Plutonium is a remedy which has the results of going thru an ordeal--like war.
Jeremy Scher did the proving, I believe. It might be interesting to read up on it.

tanya

Resending as the earlier one didn't make it to the list...

Hi Shannon, I think this one got lost somehow..

I would go with V.T.'s observations, and would also extend them to be one
way of looking into the various "crazies" that you've mentioned.

It is definitely of value to attend to the exact words of the person,
especially when considering the 'inner realms' of dreams, delusions, and
M/E symptoms. If you make a "pact" with yourself to attend to this form of
input, it may likely come to you on occasion..

I note that the case in question used the words "insane" and "sane" .. in a
very "sane" and logical sentence.. I would consider this exact expression
to be somewhat "striking and unusual"

I personally wouldn't choose to limit the case to only those rubrics (!) but
would certainly take a good close look... same as in the case of a
subculture member referring to h/irself as "crazy" in relation to what s/he
feels to be a crazy society. (truly nutzoid society, if you want my opinion


We must remember .. similar to the way in which even paranoids have
enemies... delusions will likely contain powerful elements of "truth."

Also, from experience, I know that it is extremely likely that this man DOES
believe he is insane, and very likely has a dualism (schism) where he
simultaneously knows that he is insane by the standards of the society he
desparately wishes he could feel part of, and at the same time he has
(probably) some pride in his (and compatriots) survival abilities
(efficiency at killing other human beings) and some disgust for people who
he perceives to be incapable of defending themselves, as well as a painful &
reactive/aggressive response (emotionally, at least) around these unresolved
(and nearly unresolvable!) dynamics.

Many who have come to integrate this sort of past have come to do so by
understanding the money=war equation in some depth. Human beings have,
like all lifeforms, a certain amount of aggression built-in .. nature's
"survival mechanism" .. in our society this aggression is largely contained
within financial class war.. the TRULY insane members of humanity must be
those whose insatiable greed perpetuates the management of resources in such
a way as to create and sustain scarcity
There was an issue of "Homeopathy Online" dedicated to war & trauma
http://www.lyghtforce.com/HomeopathyOnline/Issue5/

What would you say if I said "it makes me crazy when people neglect to edit
their emails, removing pages of immediately previously posted material.."

regards,
Dave Hartley
www.localcomputermart.com/dave
Santa Cruz, CA (831)423-4284