Minutus

Placebo - from Webster's

1) I shall please (from placere - to please)

2) An inert medicament or preparation given for its psychological effect
especially to satisfy the patient or to act as a control in an experimental
series.

3) Something tending to soothe or gratify.

I don't really see deceit here.

Best wishes, Joy Lucas
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Joy,
In the sense that is being discussed it is. If you give somebody in your
practice a dummy pill and lead them to believe that it's active medication
which is what used to be done in homeopathy, and apparently still is, that's
deceit. If it were not it wouldn't serve any purpose, would it?

Sue

Hi All,

If we get our priorities straight, starting with Hippocratic oath, and
Aphorism 1 of Organon, it seems like judicious use of placebo is a wonderful
case management tool.

Personally, I believe that PC ("politically correct") token / "cash
register honesty" (being honest in terms of counting out exact change, while
not disclosing that perhaps the product being purchased is not suitable for
intended use) is pennywise & pound-foolish... tends to short-change the
"honesty" of an honestly well-meaning professional (homeopath, in this case)
in favor of the spurious notion that the *NOT* professional client (who is
quite often such an unprofessional client that s/he will not even follow
clear instructions!) ... "should be told the truth" ... well, the truth
is:

A homeopath cannot impart the whole truth of homeopathy to the client.

A portion of the whole truth is that placebo has been an important and very
successful case managment tool for 200yrs.

If my priorities are to "do no harm" and consider that "high and only
mission is to restore the sick to health, to cure, as it is termed" .. then
I would feel derelict in my duties if I turned my back on this important,
time-tested tool in order to placate someone else's sense of what
constitutes the highest and best definition of honesty in this instance.

If I cannot honestly believe I am fulfilling my higher priorities in telling
a person what remedy I'm giving, or trusting h/ir to refrain from
interfering with treatment without giving placebo... then:

There is nothing "HONEST" about doing these things!

PRIORITIES first, pretending that all people are fully rational, fully
dependable, fully capable of making an "informed decision" on the barest of
actual information... well.. I trust I make my point..

regards,
Dave Hartley
http://www.localcomputermart.com/dave
Santa Cruz, CA (831)423-4284

But I do see placebo as 'active medication.' It plays an active part in the
interim period between one prescription and a possible other - or no -
prescription, which ever is the case.

I also believe in good intentions. Likewise if you set out to deceive or
believe you are deceiving then you probably are (not you personally).

Someone wrote about Arsenicum cases often requiring placebo. Many of mine
certainly have - and it has often been a case of either losing the client
or curing them (which might involve placebo).

Other than that I go by Dave has written - well said.

Best wishes, Joy
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Hi Sue,

that's

If you only prescribe lac sac, sure, but if the treatment consists of 1 dose
active and then lac sac, surely the treatment is not placebo in totality.

As a matter of interest, what do you do if your patient wants to take daily
doses? If you refuse and they go to their homeopathic pharmacy and buy some
more Rx and take it - is that in their best interest? Bear in mind they do
not have the level of training nor experience you have to be able to fully
understand why doses are not to be repeated to often. The issue of faith in
single dose is even a stumbling block for some practicing physicians,
especially some students, who are struggling to beleive that single dose can
suffice.

In practice I find some patients may comply with single dose but some may
not have faith. It is not always clear before hand who stands where.
Besides which some patients are doubting as part of their pathology. To
expect them to rise above this and have faith in single dose is unfair.
Once they are healthier and able to make a stable decision, then you can
drop the placebo.

Getting stuck on the morality issue could lead us to the following: We say
we are giving Lachesis 10M. Well beyond 12c that is not strictly true. Can
we prove the "energy" is there? Then the patient says "I am strictly vegan,
are you sure there are no animal products in there?" hey now, thats a whole
new can of worms Thank you for Jan Scholten.

Regards,
Paul

Looks like I operate very differently from Joy and Dave. I, myself, would be
devastated if I found out a health professional had given me placebo. In
fact, I would address the matter officially. As a matter of interest, even
non-registered health
professionals in this country (New Zealand) are accountable to a govt.
department
for ethical behaviour, not contravening acts etc. when offering their
services to the public although in this case one would probably be laughed
at and told that what it was supposed to be is also placebo ). I suspect
the case would always be at the bottom of the pile!

sue

Hi Sue,

With all respect ( and I mean that)
be

You are arguing subjective not objective (i.e. prejudiced observer as
opposed to unprejudiced).

Lets take a paper (hypothetical ) case. I get a patient and in the course
of taking the case I find the patient has big serious issues around deceit.
If he/she found out I gave placebo this would break all trust. The patient
would even want to know what is in each powder. At the same time the
patient is extremely anxious about health and downs every pill they can
find. In such a case I would have to weigh up the best course of action. To
inform the patient I want to give single dose and no placebos, and WHY I am
telling them might gain the patients trust, they might respect that and then
be willing to comply with the single dose - but its asking a lot of this
patient, especially if action is slow.

Either way, I base my decision on what is best for the patient. And that
can't be morally deceitful.
Of course I could just go with an LM and then they always get something,
although it might still be prone to overuse. But this reminds me of the
case of "the one who got away" - a case where I prescribed the medicinal
solution and that was totally the wrong thing to do. If anyones interested
I can post on that.

Regards,
Paul

I have been following this thread and would just like to add that I don't do
Sac Lac as it is but do on occasions give sac lac laced with a suitable
Bach Flower Rx which I do not believe and have never found interferes with
the Rx I am giving. I tell them what I am giving them and it has always been
acceptable. I was shown this by a very experienced practitioner when I was
doing college clinics.

Regards,
Rochelle

www.rochellemarsden.co.uk
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Hi everyone,
I've struggled with the placebo question for years but with this latest
discussion have finally arrived at an answer, so thanks to everyone who has
spoken up. I no longer feel it's decieitful,especially since I've had so
many clients who have either gone to the ER within weeks of their remedy and
recieved not one but several meds for new Sx, or refused the remedy I sent
after telling them what it was ( the question of ethics)( oh yes, she also
refused to pay me since she didn't agree with the remedy I sent, she had
read up on it) or took several different remedies after the one I had sent.
All of these very, nice people I had attempted to educate re: homeopathy,
all of them called me repeatedly with their concerns and I called each one
back to explain what was going on. Believe me, if I wasn't so convinced that
homeopathy was wonderful and does so much for people (and I find so much
bliss, being on this end of the healing spectrum-I'm an RN 28yrs working in
hospitals) I would have given up long ago. This discussion and the one we
had on LMs as well as the class I attended at the NCH conference have helped
me see that I can give LMs and placebo where I feel there would be benifit
to all concerned. Thanks everyone!!
Blessings, Sue