Minutus

But these guys never give-up or learn!

Polio spreads largely through faeces-contamination. So personal hygiene is paramount in its control.

Polio in most people produces 'flu' type symptoms. In a minority it causes major complications such as paralysis.

And in Pakistan the vaccinated kids get polio which is worse than the 'wild' polio but the doctors call it something else.

• A recent paper published in the Indian Journal of Medical Ethics found c. 47,500 cases of so-called non-polio acute flaccid paralysis (NPAFP), a polio-like condition that is clinically indistinguishable from polio paralysis but twice as deadly, linked to the oral polio vaccine.

• It’s also estimated that up to 180 Indian children develop vaccine-associated polio paralysis (VAPP) each year

And do not forget that polio is not contagious. If you look at old photos of polio wards the nurses and doctors do not have masks etc!

A remarkable thing with vaccine manufacturers is that with a new form of the vaccine they say it is ssafer Than the older version!

OH – So the older version was not so safe after all! And they knew!!

Soroush

Worse, they never get any ethics.
...Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Soroush, thanks very much. This has broad implications! Could you please supply a URL for the Indian Journal of Medical Ethics report as well?

Cheers --

John

Small quibble; if it passes through feces, it *is* contagious… But not through the air, coughing, etc.

Well Sheri, since you have stated strongly and repeatedly that, in your opinion, NO disease is ever caused by any microbe, let's put this in perspective...
I'll let others speak to the "never proven to be caused by a virus", but -- the fact that something "has the same symptoms as" something else does not necessarily mean that their cause is the same.
I guess you must be making an exception for cases passed from a newly vaccinated baby to a family member via diaper change, or where some (few) polio cases in the US were traced to newly vaccinated babies shedding live virus into a swimming pool; the feces connection. Or do you assume that those cases were made up?
But from what I read (this was many years back, e.g. "A Shot In The Dark", and… hm, wish I could remember the other books!), the sudden, sharp decline in cases of polio was caused NOT by a sudden, sharp decline in toxic poisonings -- but rather by onset of hygienic practices, as has been the case with many diseases.
Agreed that may explain some of them; disagree that it explains all of them.
The diaper thing.
Immune connection relates more to e.g. viruses and bacteria, not so much to toxins. Do you disagree?
agreed -- but again this relates to viruses and bacteria.
Not in the US, not during the time frame of at least the more recent polio cases here. DDT spraying of swimming pools is, I think, LONG past. But the occasional case of polio traced to newly vaccinated babe in a swimming pool, that's far more recent.
Shannon

The thing I keep balking at, is your repeated assertion that NO microbe ever causes ANY illness, and to me that is a dangerous assertion -- as well as being very directly and obviously against Hahnemann's teaching.

Yes for MOST situations (and most microbes), the "terrain" will balance and defend itself quite nicely, and there is no need (and there is potential damage) from such things as anti-bacterial soaps and antibiotics. And that is part of the reason why homeopathy is so brilliant at treating even acute diseases; by helping the body to do *what it does* -- maintain and restore homeostasis, aka heal itself.

But there are exceptions, and these are sometimes *important*. E.g., why is it that in places with less-than-pristine drinking water, the residents can drink it without problem (their immune systems are well primed to manage its microbial load), but tourists are famously advised not to? I think this is easier to explain as an immune system becoming "educated" to the microbes, rather than as somehow becoming accustomed to a chemical load.

And e.g., the various times in history where the arrival of e.g. Europeans, to e.g. the Americas resulted in massive and prompt die-offs of the prior populations. Those populations were prone to explain it as the strength of the invaders' "Gods"; historians were prone to explain it as the glorious strength and courage of the invaders -- but a closer look (e.g. see "Plagues and Peoples") shows that the defeat was carried on the clothing, the goods, and the person of the invaders, in the form of e.g. measles, and other diseases.

Okay, enough from me, on with my day.

Shannon

One more bit to add, and Sheri I would love your response to this:

I find your points very useful information to have IN ADDITION to what I consider a common sense recognition of the *interplay* between organism and environment, and immune / infective processes.

As Hahnemann discovered early on, and taught *all the way through* -- certain "excessively small animalcules" can be causes of dis-ease. Why does it matter? Not so that we can be sure to seek a vaccine for every "disease" (shudders), but so we can take *appropriate* measures, such as e.g. hygiene. Washing hands; removing infected pump handles; drinking clean water; quarantining the very ill or the very weak…

Or do you suggest that his entire theory of chronic diseases and miasms are based on early episodes of pesticide or other chemical toxicity? Because that is not what he taught; not that I am as much of a Hahnemann-only purist as you are, but maybe at least acknowledge if you are being "selective" on this point.
Shannon

Merck manual also carries a warning not to vaccinate with pertussis if there is polio going around as it increases risk of contracting polio.

Sigh......
Paul
Sent from Samsung Mobile

Actually in the past, so far as I could tell -- and I tried! -- that is exactly what you said.
:… they produce toxin that can make us sick…"
Sigh, bingo.
Ah, but I don't *use* drugs or vaccines. Well, I did accept antibiotics once two widely separated occasions, decisions that I happily stand by to this day. But generally speaking, NO I do not focus heavily on attack from the outside; I build health, and I believe in making peace and a good working relationship with one's environment.

But neither do I feel that it would be either sane or useful to pretend that all people have my best interests at heart, and all microbes are benign. I don't eat rotten food; I wash my hands at strategic moments, and expect others to do the same; I try not to cough on people, and expect others to do the same. I don' drink from inappropriate water sources.

But I happily play in the dirt, I shovel cow manure and walk barefoot, and I'm not in general scared of sick people -- oh this is silly.
I'm going to try again to give up on this conversation...

Cheers

Okay, so being selective about Hahnemann's teachings is okay sometimes. Good to know.
(Actually I don't disagree at all. Just noting.)

As for the truth about viruses, it's true there's a fascinating lot left to be learned, and better not to have it confined to the modern medical model. Oh fun factoid, I forget where I got this from -- the reason that mammals are able to carry live young, without immune rejection, is thanks to a long-ago retrovirus. (I wish I could quote more details.)

And our mitochondria -- the "energy plant" of every cell -- came to us originally as parasites, but now we are completely dependent on them for our energy production. That's why mitochondrial DNA is entirely different and separate from somatic DNA. Fascinating stories!

Who knows, maybe other infective organisms will have, or have had, beneficial effects also, over time. That doesn't mean that they *all* do.