Minutus

Hi Paul,
There were six cases of Ebola that were treated and cured homeopathically, but it wasn't me who handled them, it was a local physician in Monrovia, Liberia. My focus for Liberia was prophylaxis, and as Clarke notes Crotalus horridus as a prophylactic for hemorrhagic fever as well as cure (Clarke also suggests a drop of turpentine on a lump of sugar) and as it matched repertorization, and time was of the essence, I shipped just Crot. h. in bulk to the clinics, and almost immediately the epidemic fizzled.
Probably coincidence . . or as if they heard homeopathy was coming and called off the epidemic before people started getting cured.
Another reason I shipped just the one remedy was because I was concerned more than one remedy would cause confusion and rep'ing would be too complicated and discouraging at first.
It was a tough call, but no one got sick after the shipment arrived.
But there was a clinic I missed because the director was up country, and an entire family of six, two adults and four children, became infected. This clinic was sent a full inventory of remedies for rep'ing. All six were eventually cured with administration of Mercurius, Belladonna and finally China.
I believe the epidemic was, as with previous hemorrhagic fevers, iatrogenic salicylism, caused by the overuse of blood thinners such as aspirin and the native herb Garcinia kola, causing the sufferer to die of fluid loss. As Dr. Irene de Villiers rightly reckoned, China o. stops fluid loss and is therefore palliative if not curative of the hemorrhagic diathesis. The best preventative was advice to stay off salicyclates and the like.
Here is the mention of salicylism in my 2014 white paper submitted to the Office of Preparedness at the US Department of Health.
The epidemic died before I could make an oral presentation in Washington, D.C.
You can obtain the paper Ebola Prophylaxis and Cure at:
https://johnbenneth.files.wordpress.com ... update.pdf
It contains more detail and repertorization of Ebola.
My blog is at:
https://johnbenneth.wordpress.com/2014/ ... -and-cure/
John Benneth
In a message dated 8/20/2015 11:46:17 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, minutus@yahoogroups.com writes:
John Benneth, Homoeopath
PG Hom - London (Hons.)
http://johnbenneth.com
SKYPE: John Benneth (Portland, Oregon)
503- 819 - 7777 (USA)

John's views on aspirin/salacylic acid and other "blood thinner" ideas do not fit the Ebola picture.
He bases his views on one unsubsrtantiated assumption he makes:

Tropical fevers, remittent and continuous, and those that lead to the hemorrhagic diathesis, (an unusual susceptibility to bleeding mostly due to hypocoagulability)........
Link where he wrote this:


This assumption about hypocoagulability, causes him to suggest aspirin or other blood thinners are common in Ebola areas, and lead to the illness (In his prior email here - also quoted below).
But the assumption is the oposite of the truth, and that negates the rest of the theory.
Ebola is a HYPERcoagulable disease, not as John assumes, a HYPOcoagulable disease.

John, like many people, has assumed that becasue there is a bit of misleading bleeding in Ebola cases
..... (it is watery blood with a lack of red cells of any number except some smashed ones that thus become part of the liquid escaping the blood vessels)
... that there is lack of coagulability. It is false. Ebola cases die as a result of HYPERcoagulability, when coagulaton inside the blood vessels, after they lose their non-cell-component liquid, causes DIC (Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation) and death by that mechanism.

The HYPERcoagulability in Ebola is well accepted ans well documented; a few examples:
1.Pol Merkur Lekarski. 2014 Nov;37(221):257-60.

[Modern threat of Ebola virus].

[Article in Polish]
..." Picture of the disease is initially very non-characteristic (influenza-like symptoms) and quickly leads to dehydration, shock and disseminated intravascular coagulation syndrome, which is responsible for high mortality."...

2. J Infect Dis. 2013 Jan 15;207(2):306-18. doi: 10.1093/infdis/jis626. Epub 2012 Oct 8.

A Syrian golden hamster model recapitulating ebola hemorrhagic fever.

Ebihara H 1, Zivcec M , Gardner D , Falzarano D , LaCasse R , Rosenke R , Long D , Haddock E , Fischer E , Kawaoka Y , Feldmann H .
..."manifestation of coagulopathy seen in EHF".......
3. J Infect Dis. 2003 Dec 1;188(11):1618-29. Epub 2003 Nov 14.

Mechanisms underlying coagulation abnormalities in ebola hemorrhagic fever: overexpression of tissue factor in primate monocytes/macrophages is a key event.

Geisbert TW 1, Young HA , Jahrling PB , Davis KJ , Kagan E , Hensley LE .
..."Disseminated intravascular coagulation is a prominent manifestation of Ebola virus (EBOV) infection. Here, we report that tissue factor (TF) plays an important role in triggering the hemorrhagic complications that characterize EBOV infections."...
4. Br Homeopath J. 1999 Jan;88(1):24-7.

Sicarius (six-eyed crab spider): a homeopathic treatment for Ebola haemorrhagic fever and disseminated intravascular coagulation?

Richardson-Boedler C .
Lancet. 1983 Nov 5;2(8358):1055-8.
5.

Haematological and biochemical monitoring of Ebola infection in rhesus monkeys: implications for patient management.

Fisher-Hoch SP , Platt GS , Lloyd G , Simpson DI , Neild GH , Barrett AJ .

..."Marked neutrophilia, depletion of lymphocytes, and early failure of platelet aggregation preceded a consumption coagulopathy with a microangiopathic haemolytic anaemia, thrombocytopenia, and failure of prostacyclin production by vascular endothelium."...
6.
Infect Dis Poverty. 2015 May 4;4:23. doi: 10.1186/s40249-015-0055-z. eCollection 2015.

Possible FDA-approved drugs to treat Ebola virus infection.

Yuan S 1.

..." EBOV infection induces massive apoptosis of peripheral lymphocytes. Also, cytolysis of endothelial cells triggers disseminated intravascular coagulation (DIC) and subsequent multiple organ failures."...
Essentially it is agreed among all those either treating or researching the disese, that disseminated intravascular coagulopathy is THE cause of death in Ebola - NOT the opposite hypocoagulopathy you propose.
That is accepted also by the one homeopathic article which I found and included above, from back in 1983.

This then (quoting John) does NOT fit the Ebola picture:
"It is possible then that the egregious hemorrhagic symptoms from fever result from, or are aggravated by salicylism (overuse of aspirin, salicylate toxicity). Acute salicylate poisoning can come from a single overdose, or it can come from chronic use. Susceptibility to the hemorrhagic diathesis can be laid at the doorsteps of other non-homeopathically designed anti-inflammatories, anti-coagulants and thinners, such as Coumadin and Warfarin. The diathesis could be triggered by a diet high in natural blood thinners, or in West Africa overdosing on a native anti-inflammatory herb such as Garcinia kola."

We need to use all the scientific knowlegde as well as the homeopathy knowledge to come up with a plausible explanation for susceptibiity to the VIRUS that causes Ebola in those that are susceptible. Experience already shows it starts when hungry people eat animals who died from the virus.
Clearly their thymus has no resistance at that stage, and that (to me from immunopharmacology studies and research) is no surprise. The body releases high cortisol when under stress, which in turn destroys the thymus. The fact that Ebola victims' neutrophils are high and their lymphocytes are low, proves this damaged thymus is the case, and sets the ictim up for fluid leaks from blood vessels - causing what is actually seen in Ebola - the movement of blood LIQUID (not cells) out of the bloodstrea. Initial hemolytic anemia explains the visible red liquid assumed to be blood, which leaks in a way to look like whole-blood loss. it is not; and it is not the result of hypocoagulation. The blood liquid only leaks out (with some smashed red cells.) There is no significant red cell loss in Ebola. It looks more bloody than it is. It takes very few red cells, to make a liquid look red as blood. INSIDE the blood vessels, they are coagulating.
SO the loss is FLUID as opposed to whole BLOOD. (Also explained in my original analysis).
And the issue inside the blood vessels, is coagulation, not lack of it.

The "hemorrhagic" name is unfortunate as it is misleading - Ebola is not about blood loss after all - the name is derived from red looking fluid - blood serum with a few lysed red cells, not from bleeding as such and not from "thinned" blood either

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Hi John,

2 things. Firstly who diagnosed ebola? Was pcr done? What facilities were there for quarantine. If none, how was it contained? Was it ebola or salicylate toxicity? We need to be clear. The homeopaths (kiltner et al) who went to Monrovia were turned away.

Secondly, salicylate can cause some hemorrhage, but nothing as drastic and rapid as hemorrhagic fever. The pace is different. We also have many westerners consuming large doses of salicylates without outbreaks of hemorrhagic fever. And as Eileen pointed out, it occurs through a different mechanism.

The patients who came in with ebola were severely depleted, often described by the clinic manager there as like zombies. (I listened to an interview with him).

Without going into detail I put forward carbo veg as a main candidate in these instances (our homeopathic corpse reviver). I also think the salicylates could be useful as homeopathic remedies for lassa fever, which has a 25% incidence of hearing loss as well.

Regards,
Paul
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In a message dated 8/22/2015 10:51:06 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, minutus@yahoogroups.com writes:
I don't know. There was reportedly an attending physician who I was told the name of, but I don't feel comfortable broadcasting it, and haven't interviewed him. Send me your telephone number and I'll tell you what I can . . maybe its intuition, but for whatever reason I've developed a bit of an emotional block on poking into this more than I have already. The Liberians are very suspicious of outside help and appear to have been threatened by the government over using unconventional methods of treatment.
It's both. Irene appears to have done a good job of describing the coagulstion issues, and I think what happens is that the body is already trying to expel the toxin by thinning out the blood by separating it, and the aspirin or pharmaceutical just pushes it over the edge.
I have been thinking about how to respond to Irene's post. Salicylism historically is a proven aggravator of the hemorrhagic diathesis, and China officialnalis contains salicylates, or is at least chemically similar to salicylates. Any physician treating the h. diathesis should be painfully aware of the deadly history of salicylism and charged with murder for prescribing aspirin or blood thinners to anyone in such a condition. And yes I've spoken to Richard Hiltner at length on the phone.
Well I don't know who or what you think you're quoting or what the "mechanism" is, but the 1918-19 flu epidemics tell a gory story of what happens when you give aspirin to someone who is suffering from a potential hemorrhagic fever.
My "panacea," my remedy of choice for Ebola, was Crot.-h . . and I should point out that there are coagulation issues with snake venom as well, and that the Latin meaning of virus is venom. Clarke uses it interchangeably. As you can see there is a kind of rhyming going on here.
When I was in touch with the Liberians almost a year ago I made a serious effort to stress the point to avoid the use of aspirin and their traditional garcinia kola. Hence, nobody under my watch got sick.
Yes, I agree, as such is China off. . . it appears to be tautopathic in application to Ebola. . and whether or not it is homeopathic, in this application I think carbo veg is a good choice, and I thank you for the tip that it is a corpse reviver . . I'll remember that the next time I encounter one that deserves reviving . . I definitely need a dose myself.
Thanks for your work on this, Paul. If the carbo v. works, I look forward to seeing/hearing more from you . .
if not, best always,
John Benneth

On Aug 22, 2015, at 6:02 PM, jrbenneth@aol.com [minutus] wrote (blue quoted) in response to Paul (black quoted):
I see no evidence for any salicylate involvement?
China neither contains salicylates nor does it have any structure remotely like salicylate.
Nor does it have any mechanism remotely like salicylic acid.
Your term hemorrhagic diathesis is also questionable, in that it is not hemorrhage so much as liquid/fluid loss - a totally different mechanism and result than hemorrhage (which is blood loss).

China has at least 6 alkaloids of which quinine is one. Quinine is the one with actions that you are comparing with actions of aspirin, but there is no chemical similarity as you claim - just the opposite.

Aspirin is a hydroxy-acid, a simple organic acid molecule.

If these pictures show on the list you can see at a glance there is no similarity of structure, and also that no part of the small one occurs within the large one (not that it is relevant for function in any case).

Salicylic acid: C7H6O3.......a hydroxy acid (specifically, 2-hydroxy-benzoic acid)
versus
Quinine: C20H24N2O2.............an alkaloid

Alkaloids are bitter, complex organic bases (opposite of acids) containing nitrogen atoms, and also oxygen.
They are usually active natural compounds (such as hormones).
Both are anti-pyretic, analgesic and anti-inflamamtory (depending how you define the last one)
But they are structureally different, and also their mechanism is very different.
(Can post if you wish but not hard to look up at Pubed for quinine and wikipedia for aspirin)
The deadly role of aspirin in the 1918 flu is well documented - it forced the flu to change from an uper respiratory issue to a pneumonia issue with a very high death rate. It is always the case that anti-pyretics give a virus a field day as the body's fever to fight it has been switched off, allowing fast replication of the virus with the body's defnces suppressed.
Suppressed disease always goes deeper also - hence the pneumonia rather than flu symptos only.
One must expect the same in Ebola virus - that aspirin would encourage viral replication and invasion with a deeper disease development.

The fact that aspirin can also encourage bleeding, just adds to the problem, but is not the cause of the original illness in either case. It certainy complicates it and adds more problems to those made by the virus.
Paul, I agree.
China is especially useful in extremely fast moving pathology.
Another example of fast moving pathology of a similar sort, and with China also a potential genus epidemicus, is the feline illness Feine Infectious Peritonitis or FIP. (Ignore the misnomer name). This can kill in as little as two days, though 2 weeks is more common. There is fluid loss of the blood serum into the body cavities (abdomen and/or thorax) and like Ebola, there are high neutrophils and low lymphocytes, and a damaged thymus gland. FIP has no leaks of damaged red cells even though the neutrophils do lyse them. FIP and Ebola differ in the way the relevant virus compromises the blood vessels. Ebola drills holes for a long wiggly virus and FIP makes neutrophils get old and release toxins, by having that virus take over the neutrophil control mechanisms (from within macrophage cells).
The effect is the same - loss of liquidity of blood resulting in DIC, but the mechanism is quite different.
As we know, the mechanism is irrelevant in homeopathy, so China is indicated for both Ebola and FIP (and is one of many remedies proven effective in FIP, (see my article in HPATHY Nov 2009. FIP is an extremely variable disease in its implementation, so one needs a number of remedies in the FIP arsenal. Ebola is not nearly so variable.)
Irene
Also, the FIP disease in cats is certainly not initiated by any salicylic acid. Aspirin kills cats, their kidneys do not know how to excrete it, and none of them take it, much less regularly. Nor do they eat plants with salicylates (or if they do they get cancer).
But 10 million cats per year in USA now die of FIP. (It was zero before vaccines in 1960)
The predisposing factor in teh cats is that damaged thymus, (now a proven fact,) with resultnt high neuts and low lymphs - which makes the cat a sitting duck for FIP virus to set up shop. By the way the FIP virus is always around in cats, it mutates naturally from a ubiquitous gut virus in cats. But the FIP diseae ONLY occurs if the thymus is damaged and can not kill the virus.

So here cats are a good way to show a lack of salicylate mechanism in this type of viral disease.
They get pneumonia complication and die, as above.
So far I think you have conveniently excluded the virus action involved in each illness you mention - a proven mechanism - and tried to substitute aspirin..
But the viral mechanism is very relevant. The aspirin if given, will of course make anything worse, especially a bleeding tendency.
We should not hang onto historical ignorance of the difference between venom and viruses, IMO.
Modern science has done us the great favor of elucidating the viral actions for many of the nasty mecanisms used by these virus micro-organisms. It behooves ius to learn from that ad make use of the new information.

That is partly how I got a handle on FIP disease - and how I analysed Ebola in my first paper sent here.
I USED the new knowledge of what FIP does inside the body (my own research on almost 3000 cases now) - and via DNA research, combined.
I have no probem with this idea...but
I see no evidence of connection with this one mainly becasue it is hard to prove a negative, and yhou quote no statistics to see statistical signofocance for example.
One can not say they wold have gotten ill otherwise. And even if this helped prevent illness, it may be becasue these things damage the thymus and not becasue they are blood thinners.
Valid research is not always easy to arrange.
My experience in the comparable FIP disease when there is total collapse, is that ONE dose of Carb-v may help (as corpse-revivor in the traditional parlance, but then you need the simillimum of China or whatever after that. Carb-v does no healing in this situation. It is a total mismatch.
nope. Strange idea?
Tautopathic would mean that China is made from Ebola virus.
It is not.
It is made from Cinchona officianalis bark, which has no Ebola in it.
You only need enough to be un-corpsed:-)
It really is quite magical for such situations.
But do not use it once the corpse is "alive". So.... have the simillimum on hand or you can stall or lose the case for waiting too long in these very fast diseases.

Namaste,
Irene

PS No corpse I know does this much work to try to figure out a disease and to take action about it.
More people need to be using their thinking caps and decorpsing into action.

If/when I disagree with a specific view, John - it is only in the interests of heading for truth - not personal.

--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Hi John,
I am a little lost here. Quinine salicylate? Are you not confusing it with Quinine sulphate?
There is no commonality between Quinine and the salicylates. Your organic chemistry reasoning is not correct.
Regards,
Paul
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Well John,
So you proved you are not man enough to use my name correctly and I hope you are soon out of diapers enough to become civil in that regard.

Being rude (your now easily recognizable approach when you can not have everyting the way you invent it to be) will STILL not show any saliylic acid present in any form in any quinine, contrary to your email below .... For the simple reason there is none.
I am sorry that blows your Ebola theory otut of the water, but false theories are not appropriate to support when the truth to the contrary is well known ad easily demonstrable.

Reacting quinine with aspirin does not make "quinine contain aspirin" as you imply.
Here is the real science you are trying to misuse (your fuzzy link is meaningless and fails to explain what Quinine salicylate is. It is not a natural compound:

Quinine salicylate, (C20H24N2O2HC7H5O3)2, H2O, is the result of a chemical reaction and may be prepared by dissolving 3.89g of sodium salicylate (aspirin) in 120 ml of water, heating to boiling, and adding 10g of quinine sulphate (quinine), with constant stirring; the quinine salicylate formed in the reaction falls out of solution as a crystalline precipitate; when cold the precipitate is collected, washed with cold water until it is free from sulphates, drained on a porous tile, and allowed to dry in the air. THAT
is the chemical you are trying to claim is part of quinine.

Quinine has NO salicylate of any kind in its structure. Your theory does not work. Sorry.
(You also fogot to cater for what the Ebola virus does. It is the virus which casues the fluid leaks, by a KNOWN mechanism.)

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

In a message dated 8/26/2015 2:46:49 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, minutus@yahoogroups.com writes:
No
Yes there is. Look it up. Salicin is constituted with three of the four elements of quinine. Both are taken from tree barks. But more importantly, they share semiological commonalities, with salicylic acid have been used for influenza and fevers.
Of quinine (China o.) Clarke writes, 'When first introduced it was (as chloral and hundreds of other poisons have been since) declared on the highest authority to be incapable of harm "in whatever dose it may be taken." It is only at the end of the nineteenth century that some allopathists are discovering that it is more deadly than the deadliest West African fevers. [Emphasis mine] Every homœopath knows from experience how true is Hahnemann's picture of quinine effects from the victims of it he has been called upon to treat. ... 'China is placed by Teste in the Ferrum group with Plumb., Phos., Carb. an., Puls., Zinc, and others, which "have the property of remaking the altered blood, or increasing for the time being, in a healthy person, the relative amount of hæmatin, globulin, fibrin, &c.," but also, "after a certain lapse of time, they produce opposite results─impoverishment, discoloration, and liquefaction of the blood. From this antagonism arise their characteristic effects: Short-lasting, sanguineous congestions (primary effect), and later, discoloration of tissues; fulness of veins; torpor of all functions; dryness of mucous membranes; mucous or purulent discharges; engorgement of the glands which are immediately connected with the circulatory apparatus, as spleen and liver; passive hæmorrhages; inertia of involuntary muscles (bowels, uterus); œdema, atonic ulcers, &c.; finally, more or less obstinate nervous disorders, from derangement of sympathetic rather than the cerebro-spinal axis." '
Of Salicylic acid Clarke writes: 'Like Carbolic acid and other disinfectants, Sal. ac. produces fermentative dyspepsia, and diarrhœa with putrid-smelling stools, and it meets dynamically blood-poisoning conditions, such as puerperal fever and septicæmia."
History shows that like China o., the overuse of Salicylic acid in aspirin and as a food preservative has been the co-efficient if not the true source of the hemorrhagic diathesis in like fevers such as Ebola.
Probably so by dogma, but I think my homeopathy is true.
John Benneth, Homoeopath
PG Hom - London (Hons.)
http://johnbenneth.com
SKYPE: John Benneth (Portland, Oregon)
503- 819 - 7777 (USA)

Paul is correct. There is no commonality.
John you DO need a chemistry class before you try to invent chemical ideas. You could not be confusing more different chemicals as being releated.
With respect you do not uderstand the most basic concepts of organic chemistry.
Molecules with Nitrogen atoms (eg quinine) are in a completely different category to those without Nitrogen atoms (eg aspirin). Those with N involve proteins and hormones for example, while those with only C, H and O are in molecules like sugars, starches, oils, and the like. And even these are unrelated to each other.

Esentially what atoms a molecule contains has nothing to do with relatedness to any other molecule.
Meaningless. Tree barks contain any number of extremely different and unrelated chemicals from terpenes to starches, sugars, hormones, DNA, water, etc

Namaste,
Irene
You cannot base anything on invalid ideas.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Hi John,

Sorry, I have to say this. You need to seriously study organic chemistry. It's one thing to have an idea, but when people on the list correct you through accurate knowledge (I majored in medicinal chemistry and I am sure others have suitable qualifications), you still argue around incorrect facts. Quinine has carbon and nitrogen, are you going to argue quinine has the same pathology as cyanide?
I think it's enough now, admit you need to know your limitations. Accept or least study what is presented. Otherwise this just goes on in circles and takes up a lot of time of those willing enough to respond and guide you.

Regards,
Paul
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