Minutus

What are group members opinions of so-called meditative "proving" ?

My viewpoint is that this has no place in homeopathy other than strictly
speculative- as possible "food for thought" indicating a substance that may
be deserving of an actual proving.
The contemplation of using a potentized medicinal substance on such
speculative indications is not homeopathy, and should be so delineated in
case there is any danger of confusion.
A client should not be subject to such experimentation without informed
consent.
Such information should not be represented as "proving" information to the
public nor to neophyte homeopaths.

my $.02

Where is the master nhojeopath when you need him....

Dave Hartley
www.localcomputermart.com/dave
Santa Cruz, CA (831)423-4284

Interesting David.
I believe that when the conventional proving is compared to a meditative
proving that has been done before it they can compare better than the 2
conventional provings done of Lac Caprinum by Sankaran and Vermeulen!!!

Have you read into how these provings are carried out? The ones in UK by
Madeleine are done by a group of people who have worked together like this
for years. Some of these remedies touch issues of today rather than
yesterday and therefore I believe can be very useful. I have posted about
some of these remedies in the past including those suitable in death and
dying but have to admit that I have enough on my plate with the
conventional remedies without spending too much time on the meditative
provings!!

Regards,
Rochelle
www.rochellemarsden.co.uk
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Dave - this is EXACTLY why I wrote "I can certainly understand this form of (meditative) Provings' merits when used akin to Traditional Provings... " not instead of..

regards Patti @ iantd.com

> What are group members opinions of so-called meditative
"proving" ?
than strictly
substance that may
.... etc ...

$ 100,- approval

peter quenter

How difficult it is to reply to prejudices when I know that anyone who comes
down in favour of meditative provings will get abuse and more prejudiced
response.

Most homeopaths, myself included, are sensitive enough, to feel the effects
of
remedies without taking them. All I need to do is hold a remedy for a few
seconds and I can feel the affects of it. I can also recall the feeling of
the remedy at a later date. If I then write down those feelings it gets
called
a meditative proving but it isn't really, its a straight forward proving by
a sensitive person.

I think the main problem comes from people who believe a potentised remedy
is only material substance.

that anyone who comes
more prejudiced

It is less about prejudice than it is about ensuring
reliabilty and reproducability -
please be ensured the word abuse for certainty applies
neither to my intentions nor my mentality -

When the wider homoeopathic community will have a few
decades of study to look back upon, and have collectively
assembled data and experience, and reliably repeorted
clinical verification, and sorting of the information on
remedies studied by meditative, or any other kind of, for
that matter, provings,
then we can responsibly use the information for the
treatment of fellow human and other beings -
until then such information remains one person's subjective
information - when a group does such a proving ... better -

To make leaps of faith and speculation and apply such
information to *actual* diseases of other people is just
that, speculative, and experimental, too -
Nothing wrong with that, as such, of course - just that it
needs to be clearly labeled as such - and used as such !
the more people do meditative or other provings - properly
conducted! - and the more reliable info is collected ... who
knows, the sooner we may end up learning real great stuff of
remedies -

another point regards provings that are not done with the
'real' thing :
take thirty or so people at a seminar - it is decided to 'do
a proving'
by meditation, or holding the remedy in one's pocket for
while, etc. ..
who then can make a defininte statement that the symptoms
people develop are not possibly because of the communal
lunch they had together, or the locational circumstances
affecting people similarly - maybe something in the water
that the hotel uses, or the 'geographical stress', or maybe
the aura-emmissions of the speaker are influencing the
participants in a certain way ....

Only by many times repeatedly and properly conducted and
then repeatedly confirmed trials will such information
become reliable -

feel the >effects of remedies without taking them. All I
need to do is hold a >remedy for a few
the feeling >of the remedy at a later date. ...

I do not de-value any one individual person's personal
experience and sensitivity to remedies -
Yet, I admit to being glad that I seem to not have such
sensititvity,
with spedning long hours at my desk and a few hundred
remedies sitting right beside said desk, and with having
handled numerous remedies quite daily for many years ...

Personally, for my part, I am a firm and strong believer in
'everything is energy' and all such - and someday we will
likely be able to go beyond the material world and
consciousness and probably by then we won't need even
homoeopathy anymore to heal, but at the same time keeping at
least one foot on the ground may be helpful in order to move
forward, too -

I would most assuredly look forward to a proper publishing
of your collected findings some day -

namaste
peter quenter

Hi Peter,
You wrote

About the provings in Madeleine Evan's book quote

>

In Prometheus, the journal of the Guild of Homeopaths clinical cases of
these remedies are written up which give a fuller picture.

Regards

Rochelle
www.rochellemarsden.co.uk
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Dave,

given that different people are more aware at different levels of their bodies (physical + mental + emotional+ spiritual) some are lucky enough to detect the subtleties of changes to their spiritual/mental/emotional bodies through Rx. It is feasible to feel the energy of a remedy I suppose for these individuals just by holding or meditating (tuning into) it .

I mean we all can feel the energy of trees when standing near to them, these people have just been able to hone their tuning in skills .... just a thought

Jas

Dave Hartley wrote:

> given that different people are more aware at different
levels of >their bodies (physical + mental + emotional+
spiritual) some are >lucky enough to detect the subtleties
of changes to their >spiritual/mental/emotional bodies
through Rx. It is feasible to feel >>the energy of a remedy
I suppose for these individuals just by >holding or
meditating (tuning into) it .
near to them, these people have just been able to hone their
tuning in skills .... just a thought

Yes, all well enough and fine -
however, when applying suchly gathered information on a
remedy to actual cases of illness in people,
it would then need to be applied accordingly to clients who
also express their symptoms on the 'meditative level', so to
speak -
otherwise we end up mixing symptoms of different kinds of
provings, different understandings and interpretations into
one materia medica -
not impossible to do, maybe even desirable in the long run
of homoeopathic evolvement, but for now it certainly adds
yet another potential pitfall in case-analysis and
remedy-choice -
just to be aware of that -

and thanks,
Rochelle, for your info -
various circles for

Ok - very well -
seems like a beginning attempt to make it all more
reliable -

wishing all the more good success with these endeavours -
I guess it's a 'watch this space' kind of topic ....

best
peter

Jas wrote:
bodies (physical + mental + emotional+ spiritual) some are lucky enough to
detect the subtleties of changes to their spiritual/mental/emotional bodies
through Rx. It is feasible to feel the energy of a remedy I suppose for
these individuals just by holding or meditating (tuning into) it .
these people have just been able to hone their tuning in skills .... just a
thought

Absolutely! Personally I don't have a problem with remedy information
derived in this manner. I regard it as being as valid as any other source.
However, it does vary in quality (just as conventional provings do) and I
wouldn't rely on it as the sole justification for a prescription.

What I find difficult about Madeline Evans' work (Meditative Provings, 2000,
Rose Press) is that it goes beyond the mere reporting of sensations during
meditative engagement with the proving energy and enters interpretive
territory in a very definite prescriptive and proscriptive manner - the
"this remedy is good for ..." type comment; or "must not be given to anyone
who ..."

I certainly have a problem with comments like "[remedies] should never be
used in descending potency. This creates a confused and confusing state now
but, what is far worse, can also fix the remedy state onto the soul for many
incarnations." (Using the New Remedies). This may well have some validity in
some circumstances - who's to know? - but I cannot swallow the idea that
it's a fundamental law of the universe applicable in all times and in all
circumstances. It doesn't make sense to me either rationally or intuitively.
(Experientially I can't comment, having no conscious knowledge of past
incarnations ) ... )

So it's the rather absolutist manner of her work, rather than any problem
with meditationally-derived information per se, that inclines me towards
downgrading its quality index and hence usefulness.

Regards
Wendy