Minutus

Hi,
I have a client who needs advising on an ethical issue. Last week he found out that a family member (a sister)has stage IV cancer and had surgery to remove a large tumor. She was diagnosed one week and it advanced so quickly she had surgery a week later. She does have good energy though. His sister wants to investigate the homeopathic option more and does not want any treatment until then. He feels that she does not have the time to do this and wants to upon visiting her in the hospital give her some type of remedy. He does not feel he can, for example, without her knowledge, open a liquid remedy and somehow move close enough to treat her. He wants my advice. Ethically I do not feel he should do this without her permission but have not ruled out finding another option. The only option I can think of is using a family concept where he would put the remedy on himself before visiting her, hands, face, etc. to benefit him and then touch her face, hands, wrists, etc. and do it second hand. Even this, done secretly, I question, since the thrust of the treatment is for her but having read of the concept of family homeopathy I am trying to logically and ethically see if this is an honorable option. He wants to help her while having a clear conscience in respecting her wishes. At this point, I am asking for any input that could clarify this type of situation and would appreciate any ideas anyone may have that could add clarity.
Thanks,
Mary Ann Gilmore

personally i think if she says she doesn't want it, she doesn't want it. he kind of just has to deal with it. she's not his kid.

________________________________

From: "Mary Ann Gilmore pioneernaturalwellness@yahoo.com [minutus]"
To: Minutus
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 12:48 PM
Subject: [Minutus] Ethical issue needing clarification
Hi,
I have a client who needs advising on an ethical issue. Last week he found out that a family member (a sister)has stage IV cancer and had surgery to remove a large tumor. She was diagnosed one week and it advanced so quickly she had surgery a week later. She does have good energy though. His sister wants to investigate the homeopathic option more and does not want any treatment until then. He feels that she does not have the time to do this and wants to upon visiting her in the hospital give her some type of remedy. He does not feel he can, for example, without her knowledge, open a liquid remedy and somehow move close enough to treat her. He wants my advice. Ethically I do not feel he should do this without her permission but have not ruled out finding another option. The only option I can think of is using a family concept where he would put the remedy on himself before visiting her, hands, face, etc. to benefit him and then touch her face, hands, wrists, etc. and do it second hand. Even this, done secretly, I question, since the thrust of the treatment is for her but having read of the concept of family homeopathy I am trying to logically and ethically see if this is an honorable option. He wants to help her while having a clear conscience in respecting her wishes. At this point, I am asking for any input that could clarify this type of situation and would appreciate any ideas anyone may have that could add clarity.
Thanks,
Mary Ann Gilmore

I recently was asked to help an elderly woman (by her sister) when she was in hospital for a broken hip and then had hallucinations from hospital acquired with pneumonia. I refused because this sick woman knows I am a homeopath and doesn’t believe in homeopathy or want anything to do with it as we have had many discussions in the past about it . Her husband was a doctor. She survived , went back to her care home and now is in hospital again with a pneumothorax!! I went to visit her today as she likes my company despite my beliefs in homeopathy!!
I won’t treat people I know do not wish to be treated but if someone is ill and cannot be asked (like my mother in law who after dose of liquid ant tart on her wrist during pneumonia made an immediate miraculous recovery!!) because they are too ill , I will treat them!!
Rochelle
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 05 February 2015 18:04
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Ethical issue needing clarification
personally i think if she says she doesn't want it, she doesn't want it. he kind of just has to deal with it. she's not his kid.
________________________________

From: "Mary Ann Gilmore pioneernaturalwellness@yahoo.com [minutus]" >
To: Minutus >
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 12:48 PM
Subject: [Minutus] Ethical issue needing clarification
Hi,
I have a client who needs advising on an ethical issue. Last week he found out that a family member (a sister)has stage IV cancer and had surgery to remove a large tumor. She was diagnosed one week and it advanced so quickly she had surgery a week later. She does have good energy though. His sister wants to investigate the homeopathic option more and does not want any treatment until then. He feels that she does not have the time to do this and wants to upon visiting her in the hospital give her some type of remedy. He does not feel he can, for example, without her knowledge, open a liquid remedy and somehow move close enough to treat her. He wants my advice. Ethically I do not feel he should do this without her permission but have not ruled out finding another option. The only option I can think of is using a family concept where he would put the remedy on himself before visiting her, hands, face, etc. to benefit him and then touch her face, hands, wrists, etc. and do it second hand. Even this, done secretly, I question, since the thrust of the treatment is for her but having read of the concept of family homeopathy I am trying to logically and ethically see if this is an honorable option. He wants to help her while having a clear conscience in respecting her wishes. At this point, I am asking for any input that could clarify this type of situation and would appreciate any ideas anyone may have that could add clarity.
Thanks,
Mary Ann Gilmore

Hi Rochelle and Rachel,

I appreciate the feedback because it helps me to check the ethical boundaries I have thought about. I agree that if she doesn't want it he should deal with it. She, however, is conscious but very oriented towards alternative health care and into many other alternative health care options but does not know much about homeopathy and he feels that she will be in favor of it once she sees more information which he feels makes it ok. I feel that since she has not made a decision he should wait but as a big brother (although adult) he would be just helping her along as a family member, thus the family idea. In fact, I have successfully used this approach with even emotional issues (a client with depression)whereby the family bonding has increased and was wondering how to expand this concept, if it is ideologically possible, given any ethical issues that should be addressed.

Thank you so much as I need your input as my research finds almost no, if not any information directly related to this concept, except general ethical principles.

Mary Ann Gilmore

________________________________

From: "Rachel rachel_chaput@yahoo.com [minutus]"
To: "minutus@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Ethical issue needing clarification
personally i think if she says she doesn't want it, she doesn't want it. he kind of just has to deal with it. she's not his kid.
________________________________

From: "Mary Ann Gilmore pioneernaturalwellness@yahoo.com [minutus]"
To: Minutus
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 12:48 PM
Subject: [Minutus] Ethical issue needing clarification
Hi,
I have a client who needs advising on an ethical issue. Last week he found out that a family member (a sister)has stage IV cancer and had surgery to remove a large tumor. She was diagnosed one week and it advanced so quickly she had surgery a week later. She does have good energy though. His sister wants to investigate the homeopathic option more and does not want any treatment until then. He feels that she does not have the time to do this and wants to upon visiting her in the hospital give her some type of remedy. He does not feel he can, for example, without her knowledge, open a liquid remedy and somehow move close enough to treat her. He wants my advice. Ethically I do not feel he should do this without her permission but have not ruled out finding another option. The only option I can think of is using a family concept where he would put the remedy on himself before visiting her, hands, face, etc. to benefit him and then touch her face, hands, wrists, etc. and do it second hand. Even this, done secretly, I question, since the thrust of the treatment is for her but having read of the concept of family homeopathy I am trying to logically and ethically see if this is an honorable option. He wants to help her while having a clear conscience in respecting her wishes. At this point, I am asking for any input that could clarify this type of situation and would appreciate any ideas anyone may have that could add clarity.
Thanks,
Mary Ann Gilmore

i'm not sure if there exist any generally-agreed-upon "best practices" with regard to issues like this.
i see your point, he's the older brother etc...but that sort of thinking is a very slippery slope and controlling types do want to control. if she's over the legal adult age, i think she can make her own decisions.
if you're supplying the remedy to him, you're entering murky waters. and frankly it sounds a bit late in the game for homeopathic treatment anyway, unless you're striving for palliation.

________________________________

From: "Mary Ann Gilmore pioneernaturalwellness@yahoo.com [minutus]"
To: "minutus@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Ethical issue needing clarification
Hi Rochelle and Rachel,

I appreciate the feedback because it helps me to check the ethical boundaries I have thought about. I agree that if she doesn't want it he should deal with it. She, however, is conscious but very oriented towards alternative health care and into many other alternative health care options but does not know much about homeopathy and he feels that she will be in favor of it once she sees more information which he feels makes it ok. I feel that since she has not made a decision he should wait but as a big brother (although adult) he would be just helping her along as a family member, thus the family idea. In fact, I have successfully used this approach with even emotional issues (a client with depression)whereby the family bonding has increased and was wondering how to expand this concept, if it is ideologically possible, given any ethical issues that should be addressed.

Thank you so much as I need your input as my research finds almost no, if not any information directly related to this concept, except general ethical principles.

Mary Ann Gilmore
________________________________

From: "Rachel rachel_chaput@yahoo.com [minutus]"
To: "minutus@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Ethical issue needing clarification
personally i think if she says she doesn't want it, she doesn't want it. he kind of just has to deal with it. she's not his kid.
________________________________

From: "Mary Ann Gilmore pioneernaturalwellness@yahoo.com [minutus]"
To: Minutus
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 12:48 PM
Subject: [Minutus] Ethical issue needing clarification
Hi,
I have a client who needs advising on an ethical issue. Last week he found out that a family member (a sister)has stage IV cancer and had surgery to remove a large tumor. She was diagnosed one week and it advanced so quickly she had surgery a week later. She does have good energy though. His sister wants to investigate the homeopathic option more and does not want any treatment until then. He feels that she does not have the time to do this and wants to upon visiting her in the hospital give her some type of remedy. He does not feel he can, for example, without her knowledge, open a liquid remedy and somehow move close enough to treat her. He wants my advice. Ethically I do not feel he should do this without her permission but have not ruled out finding another option. The only option I can think of is using a family concept where he would put the remedy on himself before visiting her, hands, face, etc. to benefit him and then touch her face, hands, wrists, etc. and do it second hand. Even this, done secretly, I question, since the thrust of the treatment is for her but having read of the concept of family homeopathy I am trying to logically and ethically see if this is an honorable option. He wants to help her while having a clear conscience in respecting her wishes. At this point, I am asking for any input that could clarify this type of situation and would appreciate any ideas anyone may have that could add clarity.
Thanks,
Mary Ann Gilmore

Hi Rachel,

I agree that this is a very slippery slope and I think that it is always better to be conservative until one has worked through the whole issue. I would not supply him any remedies or diagnosis and I do empathize with his genuine concern for her. Intravenous vit. C therapy may buy her some time and there is a drug developed in the Ukraine called Ukrain which has been highly successfuly because it kills only cancer cells and not any surrounding cells. It is legal in several countries but only experimental here. The tests on over 100 cancer strains has proved extremely successful and I have encouraged him to have her look into this and if she has time to look into homeopathy also. As you guessed though he is a controlling type and emotional about this issue. I think though that this opportunity is a good one for me to expand my thinking on this issue if it were to come up again even it were in differing circumstances.

Thank you,
Mary Ann Gilmore

________________________________

From: "Rachel rachel_chaput@yahoo.com [minutus]"
To: "minutus@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Ethical issue needing clarification
i'm not sure if there exist any generally-agreed-upon "best practices" with regard to issues like this.
i see your point, he's the older brother etc...but that sort of thinking is a very slippery slope and controlling types do want to control. if she's over the legal adult age, i think she can make her own decisions.
if you're supplying the remedy to him, you're entering murky waters. and frankly it sounds a bit late in the game for homeopathic treatment anyway, unless you're striving for palliation.
________________________________

From: "Mary Ann Gilmore pioneernaturalwellness@yahoo.com [minutus]"
To: "minutus@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Ethical issue needing clarification
Hi Rochelle and Rachel,

I appreciate the feedback because it helps me to check the ethical boundaries I have thought about. I agree that if she doesn't want it he should deal with it. She, however, is conscious but very oriented towards alternative health care and into many other alternative health care options but does not know much about homeopathy and he feels that she will be in favor of it once she sees more information which he feels makes it ok. I feel that since she has not made a decision he should wait but as a big brother (although adult) he would be just helping her along as a family member, thus the family idea. In fact, I have successfully used this approach with even emotional issues (a client with depression)whereby the family bonding has increased and was wondering how to expand this concept, if it is ideologically possible, given any ethical issues that should be addressed.

Thank you so much as I need your input as my research finds almost no, if not any information directly related to this concept, except general ethical principles.

Mary Ann Gilmore
________________________________

From: "Rachel rachel_chaput@yahoo.com [minutus]"
To: "minutus@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Ethical issue needing clarification
personally i think if she says she doesn't want it, she doesn't want it. he kind of just has to deal with it. she's not his kid.
________________________________

From: "Mary Ann Gilmore pioneernaturalwellness@yahoo.com [minutus]"
To: Minutus
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 12:48 PM
Subject: [Minutus] Ethical issue needing clarification
Hi,
I have a client who needs advising on an ethical issue. Last week he found out that a family member (a sister)has stage IV cancer and had surgery to remove a large tumor. She was diagnosed one week and it advanced so quickly she had surgery a week later. She does have good energy though. His sister wants to investigate the homeopathic option more and does not want any treatment until then. He feels that she does not have the time to do this and wants to upon visiting her in the hospital give her some type of remedy. He does not feel he can, for example, without her knowledge, open a liquid remedy and somehow move close enough to treat her. He wants my advice. Ethically I do not feel he should do this without her permission but have not ruled out finding another option. The only option I can think of is using a family concept where he would put the remedy on himself before visiting her, hands, face, etc. to benefit him and then touch her face, hands, wrists, etc. and do it second hand. Even this, done secretly, I question, since the thrust of the treatment is for her but having read of the concept of family homeopathy I am trying to logically and ethically see if this is an honorable option. He wants to help her while having a clear conscience in respecting her wishes. At this point, I am asking for any input that could clarify this type of situation and would appreciate any ideas anyone may have that could add clarity.
Thanks,
Mary Ann Gilmore

In my view, if she cannot be persuaded to take a homeopathic remedy, then her wishes have to be respected.

Rgds

Soroush
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 05 February 2015 17:49
To: Minutus
Subject: [Minutus] Ethical issue needing clarification
Hi,
I have a client who needs advising on an ethical issue. Last week he found out that a family member (a sister)has stage IV cancer and had surgery to remove a large tumor. She was diagnosed one week and it advanced so quickly she had surgery a week later. She does have good energy though. His sister wants to investigate the homeopathic option more and does not want any treatment until then. He feels that she does not have the time to do this and wants to upon visiting her in the hospital give her some type of remedy. He does not feel he can, for example, without her knowledge, open a liquid remedy and somehow move close enough to treat her. He wants my advice. Ethically I do not feel he should do this without her permission but have not ruled out finding another option. The only option I can think of is using a family concept where he would put the remedy on himself before visiting her, hands, face, etc. to benefit him and then touch her face, hands, wrists, etc. and do it second hand. Even this, done secretly, I question, since the thrust of the treatment is for her but having read of the concept of family homeopathy I am trying to logically and ethically see if this is an honorable option. He wants to help her while having a clear conscience in respecting her wishes. At this point, I am asking for any input that could clarify this type of situation and would appreciate any ideas anyone may have that could add clarity.
Thanks,
Mary Ann Gilmore

Thank you Soroush,

I feel the same way. I am willing to do thought experiments to see if anything else would change the parameters and even get other viewpoints but I could not see anything that would and your input helps me finish the thought experiment.
Thanks,
Mary Ann Gilmore

________________________________

From: "finrod@finrod.co.uk [minutus]"
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 2:48 PM
Subject: RE: [Minutus] Ethical issue needing clarification
In my view, if she cannot be persuaded to take a homeopathic remedy, then her wishes have to be respected.
Rgds
Soroush
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 05 February 2015 17:49
To: Minutus
Subject: [Minutus] Ethical issue needing clarification
Hi,
I have a client who needs advising on an ethical issue. Last week he found out that a family member (a sister)has stage IV cancer and had surgery to remove a large tumor. She was diagnosed one week and it advanced so quickly she had surgery a week later. She does have good energy though. His sister wants to investigate the homeopathic option more and does not want any treatment until then. He feels that she does not have the time to do this and wants to upon visiting her in the hospital give her some type of remedy. He does not feel he can, for example, without her knowledge, open a liquid remedy and somehow move close enough to treat her. He wants my advice. Ethically I do not feel he should do this without her permission but have not ruled out finding another option. The only option I can think of is using a family concept where he would put the remedy on himself before visiting her, hands, face, etc. to benefit him and then touch her face, hands, wrists, etc. and do it second hand. Even this, done secretly, I question, since the thrust of the treatment is for her but having read of the concept of family homeopathy I am trying to logically and ethically see if this is an honorable option. He wants to help her while having a clear conscience in respecting her wishes. At this point, I am asking for any input that could clarify this type of situation and would appreciate any ideas anyone may have that could add clarity.
Thanks,
Mary Ann Gilmore

Then IMO he should do that.
It is her choice to make.
He can educate her as to urgency, get information quickly, ask her to take an interim remedy, etc.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

You said she *does* want to investigate the homeopathic option, then why can't he just tell her what remedy he would like to give? Maybe I'm misreading.
________________________________

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