Minutus

It would be very interesting to see the difference between the sarcode and the nosode - or even the true sarcode (antibodies) and the true nosode. (And are antibodies truly sarcode or do they fall into a different category?)

Did anyone read the following by Shah in which he proposes new pathogenetic trials (provings) on our nosodes because they are contaminated by host particles which have obviously been potentised with the bacterium or virus? http://www.ijrh.org/article.asp?issn=09 ... ulast=Shah

It would be VERY interesting to see the difference in symptoms between potentised Neisseria gonorrhoeae and our current Medorrhinum, for example - ie., which symptoms belong to the pathogen and which belong to the host.

We would likely end up with two remedies that share some symptoms but differ in others.

And would the potentised pathogen provide better prophylaxis or is the "similar" from a host the better prophylactic.

Lots of fascinating info to be uncovered in this area.

Fran.

Sarcode is healthy tissue - used to encourage more of itself.
Nosode is unhealthy tissue - used to cure in the sick what it encourages more of in the healthy.
Sarcode is healthy tissue and has absolutely nothing to do with antibodies.
Antibodies are just the immune system's secondary - backup - mechanism for acute illness.
Nosode is also nothing to do with antibodies. It is diseased tissue - it will have a specific EMF which may align with that of an ill person.
Antibodies are not healthy tissue. Sarcode is healthy tissue.
These are called tautopathic remedies and they have been in use a long time. They follow the usual rules of homeopathy - great for prevention of illness, but too identical to be much good for curing it.
That can be modifuied two ways - it you ise an old tautopathic remedy to a prior and different strain of the pathogen
it will have bettrer efficacy agaist illness.
If you use a mixture of pathogens for SIMILAR dseases, adn patentize that intoONE tautopathic remedyk that has much better efficacy against any illness that is similar to those in the remedy.

Example:
If you combine the three main feline upper respiratory infection illness (URI) organisms (feline herpes virus, bacterial chlamydia, feline calicivirus) and make one tautopathic remedy from these, the resultant URI remedy will have pretty good efficacy against the named feline URIs, and even beter efficacy against SIMLAR diseases such as feline plane flu for example.
If you instead make the one tautopathic remedy from a vaccine containing organisms of all three common feline URI organisms, you get a very usefuil remedy.
It will:
* prevent all three disease
* prevent all similar diseases
* treat all three diseases esp if used in early stage
* treat any similar disease
* prevent vaccine reactions to feline vaccines for URI
* counter effects of a URI vaccine already given for these illnesses.
All old news:-)
Tautopathic remedies already have a very long history.

Nosodes may have the better efficacy against illness, compared with tautopathic remedies - as they are more likely to be SIMILAR where the tautopathic is closer to IDENTICAL.
For example Lyssin is a nosode for rabies. It is useful for:
* preventing reactions to rabies vaccine
* overcoming reactiosn to a rabies vaccine already given
* preventing rabies
* treating rabies

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Hi Irene,

Have you ever considered that some (most) posts on this forum are made to engage in friendly discussion, not one upmanship?

I think it's a shame to see ideas and conversations squashed by someone trying to pull rank. What about you?

Getting back to antibodies and the point I was hoping to discuss...

I don't consider antibodies to be tautopathic substances so maybe this discussion is not "old news"?

They don't fit neatly into the sarcode classification, do they, so I was thinking we may need a new name for remedy types prepared from antibodies - which John B was discussing? Perhaps 'antibode'?

John Harvey is especially good in this area and if he is about may provide some guidance. I can remember him once suggesting the name 'symbiode' for things that live symbiotically with us, when not in overgrowth, such as some gut yeasts. I thought that name was especially good and have used it ever since.

Fran.

Oneupmanship is in the mind of the beholder.
You have two ways to take an informative post...
Learn from it.....
or
get defensive and make insulting remarks.

You seem to prefer the latter.
I am sorry, I do not.

If someone writes a post that explains something I did not understand well, I appreciate it and learn from it, and do not see it as a competition. Are you a nux?
I am not. I am an educator, for those who wish to learn from what I happen to know - just as I like to learn continuously from others in areas I do not yet know.
I ask nothing in return for information I share generously here.
It is weird to me that new information is seen by anyone as squash.
I am sorry you choose to feel squashed if someone provides extra infromation. I surely can not decide for you how you want to feel. It's sad that you choose to be squashed.
Nor does anyone that I know.
But you introduced them in the context of sarcodes, and nosodes, and they do not fit there either.
The old news is the use of tautopathic remedies as opposed to nosodes.
I am sorry that was not clear to you from what I wrote. Too busy being defensive?
Please try to just read what I adn others write, as the information and opinion it is, and do not try to make a competition out of who knows what, it is so unproductive.
IF - big IF - we could isolate and make a remedy from a specific antibody - why would that be useful?
Would the remedy help reduce an excess of antibodies?
Not recently that i saw. In mid October he last mentioned antibodies in an email - in connection with them being presumed present in serum from Ebola survivors - a very different statement to making remedy from atibodies.
Did I miss an email?

But the serum would likely not have antibodies in it, but memory B cells, wich can produce the antibodies if the right antigen is seen. There may be some in vitro way to induce such memeory cells to produce antibodies provided yhou had the antigen handy to use. I would not want to be the one trying this with Ebola followed by potentizing:-)
which area?
Turning antibodies into remedies?
We do not need a new word. We have simbiont, an existing word.

Defined as

symbiont
/ˈsɪmbɪˌɒnt/
noun
1.
an organism living in a state of symbiosis

Derived Forms
symbiontic, adjective
symbiontically, adverb

Word Origin
C19: from Greek sumbioun to live together, from biounto live

(Source: Collins English Dictionary et al)
It would be a viable option if we needed a new word.

Namaste,
Irene

--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

My wife and kids are symbiodes.......cool new definition....I'll use it in my will: "To my symbiodes, I leave...."

Joe.

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.

"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"

www.naturamedica.co.nz

Hi Irene,
I'm so sorry you perceived it this way. Let's move on to something more productive.
It would be useful for whatever symptom picture developed during a proving.

An additional possible benefit is that such a proving MAY give us speculative information on the potential for use of this class of remedies - which again would have to be confirmed by provings and clinical use.
See his comment - attached to the first email under this subject line - to which I responded earlier today.
Yes, memory cells may be the valuable component.
Except that symbiont refers to a living organism living symbiotically with us.

Symbiode is a more apt name for the potentised remedy prepared from that symbiode - the suffix of which is also used in other potency class names such as nosODE and isODE (ode meaning path, or way).
And we do as we better understand and define our practices. Bowel nosodes, for example, would probably be better placed under a symbiode category.

Fran.

But are they potentised? If not, they must be symbionts!

Fran.

They do have potency....oh boy.....

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.

"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"

www.naturamedica.co.nz

Sounds much better:-)
Yes that would apply to any new substance proved, I just wondered if you had a theory of what an antibody remedy might achieve.
Sorry I have no email from John B under this subject header, so I presume yahoo is not delivering all the emails
my answer will then be out of context with that email missing.

Can you forward the relevant comment perhaps?
But antibodies are not organisms living symbiotically with us. They are part of us - part of the immune system.
Antibodies are a self-protection-unit, a defensive unit. As a category that might include cytokines, B cells, T cells, Killer cells, macrophages, neutrophils and the like - no separate organisms involved, they are all immune system components....a part of us which can be healthy tissue or disease tissue depending whether they are behaving or misbehaving or invaded etc.
Some antibodies are doing their job of helping a large acute invasion that is too much for the thymus to handle.
Other antibodies are attacking the body causing lupus, graves, and other pathologies.
I am not sure there is any logic to putting disease causing ones in the same category with well behaved ones - regardless which component of immune system you are using for a remedy.

The immune system is always relevant - so the immune system components may actually be very relevant as remedies.

The key to the immune system is the thymus, however.
It has to be involved in any illness, either acute ot chronic and if it is healthy, there will be no illness, either acute or healthy.
It is probably the thymus that ALL homeopathic remedies repair or strengthen, no matter how we select the remedy. I question whether any remedy ever acts against a disease, as it is much more logical to repair the thymus ans let the healthy thymus dop the dirty work it was so well designed to do.....if only it can be healthy enough.

To me the thymus (per this theory of mine) is a key to how homeopathy works. It explains prophylaxis as it makes the thymus strong enough to resist disease - it explains cure as it makes the thymus healthye nough to use its components to fight both chronic and acute diseases. It explains why my new ICT Health system works so well - being keyed to the inherited traits of an individual and strengthening them. It explais why the proving of remedies makes one more robust and resistant to all diseases (aph 141).

It is thymus thymus thymus...
Healthy thymus means illness is impossible - unhealthy thymus means illness is possible.
We are brainwashed into believing the thymus disappears with age, becasue doctorws and vets see involuted thymuses that are worse with age.
But look at an autopsy of a cat who had no vaccines or drugs (all known to do thymus damage) and no supplements containing thymus damaging magnesium stearate (used to get the good stuff through machinery easily), and who had no exposure to household or other chemicals. THOSE cats have a full size healthy thymus at age 18 at autopsy.
I know the vet who did the autopsy on one of my such cats - and he told me that it was a very weird cat as it had a thymus like a very young cat. (The cat died at the hands of a neighbor after the cat ate chicks that wandered under the fence to my place).

From an esoteric perspective, each organ has its psychic equivalent or twin. The thymus - which comes from the Latin "thymos" meaning spirit or soul - connects our physical being, "via a silver cord", to our psychic or soul self.
Is it any wonder the thymus is the lead player in health determination.

Components of the immune system (including but not limited to antibodies) may or may not be great remedies at some point.

I think that making this system healthy, rather, is the key to overall health. It then repairs whatever is in need of it, and resists whatever is in need of resistance.

...............
I would agree that one as they are not nosodes, not being disease tissue, and the current name is thus technically incorrect.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

I agree with both of you here and although I generally don't get involved in these conversations, I have a great respect for both of you and many of the folk on this site. For what its worth I have found communication on the net leaves a lot to be desired in any forum. It seems that we humans need to not only have along with the spoken word, but also need to often hear the voice tone and see the other's body language to fully interpret and understand what that person is trying to communicate. Unfortunately, it only takes one first sentence to be misinterpreted to trigger things off in the wrong direction. There have been more than enough times that I have found that just seeing words on a paper or a screen can lead me into a misinterpretation of what the other party is a trying to communicate. Thats where a : >) often helps.

bob